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Started By
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re: Fleener To Saints, 5 year deal, $36 million
Posted on 3/9/16 at 9:44 pm to bbrownso
Posted on 3/9/16 at 9:44 pm to bbrownso
Bill Barnwell:
quote:
Coby Fleener (Saints): D+
Last year, the Saints knew that they had to rebuild their offensive line and defense, even if it meant sacrificing their pass-catching tight end, so they sent Jimmy Graham to the Seahawks and acquired Max Unger and draft picks. A year later, with their offensive line struggling and their defense still a mess, it seems as if they just gave up and went after a less impressive receiving tight end. Fleener isn't close to Graham's equal as a field-stretching receiver, and the Saints did just fine without that sort of weapon in their offense last year, turning Ben Watson into a viable tight end. After losing Watson to the Ravens, the Saints took what precious little cap space they had and decided to use it on Fleener's five-year, $36-million deal. It's reminiscent of their bizarre decision to invest heavily in running backs (of all things) last year, and speaks to just how flawed the organizational process has gotten in New Orleans.
3
Posted on 3/9/16 at 9:47 pm to saintsfan22
i would have rather gone defense thats for sure.
I hope we can make a good move on that side of the ball
I hope we can make a good move on that side of the ball
Posted on 3/9/16 at 9:49 pm to LSUZombie
quote:
Would love to go back and read some of Walterfootballs grades from other years of free agency and see what they got wrong and right.
2015 grades: oldest toward the bottom
Posted on 3/9/16 at 9:50 pm to bbrownso
I love how that article and many posters here say Green never really got a chance.
He had 25 starts over the last 3 years (starting half a season on average). You have to be fricking dense to think he never really got a chance.
So over those three years he averages about 3 catches per start, and less than 2 catches per game played. Meanwhile Fleener averages 4.5 catches per start and 3.25 catches per game played.
But yeah he never had a shot so let's give him $20 mil, but then say the guy who has twice as many catches, yards, and tds sucks.
He had 25 starts over the last 3 years (starting half a season on average). You have to be fricking dense to think he never really got a chance.
So over those three years he averages about 3 catches per start, and less than 2 catches per game played. Meanwhile Fleener averages 4.5 catches per start and 3.25 catches per game played.
But yeah he never had a shot so let's give him $20 mil, but then say the guy who has twice as many catches, yards, and tds sucks.
This post was edited on 3/9/16 at 9:58 pm
Posted on 3/9/16 at 9:52 pm to saintsfan22
Yeah Barnwell, went spent all $36 mil this year on him.
It's only $2.4 mil this year.
It's only $2.4 mil this year.
Posted on 3/9/16 at 9:54 pm to bonethug0108
do you really think Fleener is a better bargain?
Posted on 3/9/16 at 9:57 pm to bbrownso
They gave B's for Browner and Spiller and an A- for Spencer.
Posted on 3/9/16 at 9:57 pm to LSUZombie
quote:
Coby Fleener Saints deal: $36 million, $18M gtd, $8M signing bonus, salaries $800,00, $5.8M, $6.3M, $6.3M, $6.4M
IF my math is right, that's a $2.4M cap hit in '16
So, I'd say this is very close to the assumptions people were making when they expressed concern about this deal.
The Saints overpaid for Fleener. Worse, they overpaid at a position they didn't need to overpay at.
Posted on 3/9/16 at 10:02 pm to bonethug0108
I think this signing just tells us that we're going straight defense unless Treadwell is there, because at this point he's the only offensive player I can handle us drafting without losing my shite.
Posted on 3/9/16 at 10:04 pm to whatiknowsofar
We need a Guard way more than Treadwell.
Posted on 3/9/16 at 10:04 pm to Lester Earl
Bargain?
My point is Green hasn't shown much of shite yet is only getting $2 mil less per year.
If we look at it from a production standpoint Fleener should get twice as much as Green because he has produced twice as much. That would put him at $10 mil.
We got him for $7.2 mil (and that's not the true average; he has to make it to the end to get that).
So if we compare them from a production standpoint and what they got, yes we got a bargain.
But we know it isn't about what you've done but what you will do (ask Byrd). So which one is the better deal will have to play out.
Do you give big money to an unproven player or pay slightly more for a proven one?
My point is Green hasn't shown much of shite yet is only getting $2 mil less per year.
If we look at it from a production standpoint Fleener should get twice as much as Green because he has produced twice as much. That would put him at $10 mil.
We got him for $7.2 mil (and that's not the true average; he has to make it to the end to get that).
So if we compare them from a production standpoint and what they got, yes we got a bargain.
But we know it isn't about what you've done but what you will do (ask Byrd). So which one is the better deal will have to play out.
Do you give big money to an unproven player or pay slightly more for a proven one?
Posted on 3/9/16 at 10:10 pm to bonethug0108
again, do you really think Fleener is a better bargain?
Posted on 3/9/16 at 10:13 pm to saintsfan22
quote:
They gave B's for Browner
They were right about this though:
quote:
New Orleans fans better get used to pass interference flags. Brandon Browner was whistled for a whopping 19 penalties in 2014 (including the playoffs), and that's after missing the first six games of the season!
And he was optimistic about Spiller and Spencer:
quote:
but I have to imagine that Sean Payton and Drew Brees will transform him into a Darren Sproles-type weapon.
quote:
but perhaps he'll be able to rebound now that he's two years removed from the injury.
quote:
Still, the Saints aren't risking much, giving the edge rusher just $150,000 guaranteed.
Posted on 3/9/16 at 10:18 pm to bonethug0108
quote:
Bargain?
My point is Green hasn't shown much of shite yet is only getting $2 mil less per year.
If we look at it from a production standpoint Fleener should get twice as much as Green because he has produced twice as much. That would put him at $10 mil.
We got him for $7.2 mil (and that's not the true average; he has to make it to the end to get that).
So if we compare them from a production standpoint and what they got, yes we got a bargain.
But we know it isn't about what you've done but what you will do (ask Byrd). So which one is the better deal will have to play out.
Do you give big money to an unproven player or pay slightly more for a proven one?
I think if you would have asked just about anyone if the market value of Fleener was anywhere close to 5/36m 2 days ago, they would have laughed and said no.
The Saints must have loved him. Personally, I think he'll do well because all TEs do well with Brees. I don't think it's a good use of our cap space. On paper, I think this is a bad decision.
Posted on 3/9/16 at 10:19 pm to saintsfan22
you want to take a G that high? No thanks
Posted on 3/9/16 at 10:23 pm to BilJ
No. When he said straight defense I assumed he meant defense heavy draft not just 1st rd.
Posted on 3/9/16 at 10:23 pm to moneyg
quote:
Personally, I think he'll do well because all TEs do well with Brees. I don't think it's a good use of our cap space. On paper, I think this is a bad decision.
I agree with this. I think Fleener can and will do well, maybe even to the point where he's "worth" the money. But I would much rather have used that money elsewhere, filling other holes. We've proven we can get above-average TE play from not above-average TEs.
Posted on 3/9/16 at 10:24 pm to saintsfan22
That's pretty dead on.
I get that they see his potential, and we needed a TE, but it was too much money. And who were we competing against for his services?
I get that they see his potential, and we needed a TE, but it was too much money. And who were we competing against for his services?
Posted on 3/9/16 at 10:25 pm to Lester Earl
My answer was clear. If we are judging by the past then clearly yes. If we are judging by what they will do then we have to wait and see.
Personally I say we should wait and see. Lofton seemed like a bargain. Grubbs seemed like a bargain. We can't go by the past in judging bargains imo.
Personally I say we should wait and see. Lofton seemed like a bargain. Grubbs seemed like a bargain. We can't go by the past in judging bargains imo.
This post was edited on 3/9/16 at 10:29 pm
Posted on 3/9/16 at 10:28 pm to THRILLHO
quote:
And who were we competing against for his services?
Indy for one. We definitely didn't just pull the numbers out of our arse. With a weak TE class teams were likely fighting over the few they had.
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