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Started By
Message
re: Derek Carr seeking $35M or more per year in free agent contract
Posted on 2/25/23 at 7:11 am to saints5021
Posted on 2/25/23 at 7:11 am to saints5021
quote:
New Orleans is not a market you can tank in.
Nobody is saying that we need to "tank" in this thread, I don't believe.
However, adding a piece like Carr will force 4-5 years of "tanking" down the road.
quote:
You have to have at least a chance of competing to be attractive to players.
So what happens when we're in the worst cap hell in NFL history in 2026 and can't get out of it until 2030?
You think we can be a FA player with negative cap room and no winning? You think that's a better situation for the team?
1
Posted on 2/25/23 at 8:27 am to SlowFlowPro
How is adding a top 12 QB in a QB driven league going to extend our tanking?
Posted on 2/25/23 at 9:13 am to saints5021
quote:
How is adding a top 12 QB in a QB driven league going to extend our tanking?
We are going to create a cap situation that will take 4-5 years to fix, as opposed to 2-3 we face now.
We will have so much of our cap eaten up by dead cap hits that we won't be able to retain young talent we draft or sign FAs. How can you avoid tanking in that scenario? Even if we draft well now, we won't be able to sign them.
Let's assume we have another historical draft like 2017. Instead of losing Hendrickson and Williams, we'll lose Lattimore, Kamara, and Ram, too.
This post was edited on 2/25/23 at 9:14 am
Posted on 2/25/23 at 9:29 am to GMoney2600
We need to face the facts that Carr will be our QB. The Saints are going to pay him what he is looking for. They are making the cap space now.
My only hope in all of this is that we use the 29th pick to get him a top tier WR or OL.
In all reality they need to get out of cap hell and stop kicking the can down the road but they wont. In a few years it will catch up and they will be looking at 5-10 years of misery.
My only hope in all of this is that we use the 29th pick to get him a top tier WR or OL.
In all reality they need to get out of cap hell and stop kicking the can down the road but they wont. In a few years it will catch up and they will be looking at 5-10 years of misery.
This post was edited on 2/25/23 at 9:32 am
Posted on 2/25/23 at 9:39 am to Vood
quote:
They are making the cap space now.
They're making cap space to just get under man...
Posted on 2/25/23 at 9:41 am to whodat22
quote:
Are you related to Andy Dalton or something? I've never seen someone defend such a shitty QB so much.
I’m not related to Dalton but when you post something stupid I’ll correct you. Dalton with his 3.5 million salary outplayed a 35 million dollar qb that day and you trying to say it was his fault we lost is just laughable. It was one of Daltons better games as a Saint.
And Jefferson is good, but didn’t do much the prior two games but had Lattimore lined up on him majority of the game and got completey owned by him. Defense gave up 25 more points thst game and you saying Dalton was the reason we lost is retarded. Lattimore is being paid top 3 money to not get embarrassed like he did that day.
This post was edited on 2/25/23 at 10:43 am
Posted on 2/25/23 at 9:55 am to htran90
quote:
They're making cap space to just get under man...
They are not doing this just to get under the cap. They are doing this to sign Free agents as well as get under the cap.
Here is an ESPN Article on what they can do, to not only get under, but also get space to sign players. All these moves wont happen and we wont like some of them, but it is what it is.
LINK
This post was edited on 2/25/23 at 9:56 am
Posted on 2/25/23 at 9:57 am to Vood
The Saints can always sign anyone they want to sign. We are the only ones who care about caps space
Posted on 2/25/23 at 10:23 am to Vood
People want to know how signing Carr will make the eventual rebuild take longer need to read that article.
THAT is how a 2-3 year cap rebuild will take 5-7. We're going to frick up 2024, 2025, and 2026 with this one contract alone.
Same thing literally just happened with Mathieu's contract.
This is from another thread but it belongs here, too:
quote:
They'll do this by reducing his $13.9 million base salary and reducing it to the league minimum of $1.165 million and converting it into a signing bonus. That would allow them to spread $12.7 million over the remaining three void years.
THAT is how a 2-3 year cap rebuild will take 5-7. We're going to frick up 2024, 2025, and 2026 with this one contract alone.
Same thing literally just happened with Mathieu's contract.
This is from another thread but it belongs here, too:
quote:
Look at our dead cap for 2023. It's clearly an issue.
We have slightly over $5M for Jenkins, Vannett, Book, and Jordan Jackson.
Then we have Onyamata's $10.2M ghost hit and Davenport's $7.6M ghost hit.
That's over $20M of cap gone. Over 10% of our cap space is already spoken for via dead cap hits. That's an issue.
With no more manipulations, we top that in 2024 with only 2 contracts: the likely Thomas post-June 1 cut ($11.9M dead cap in 2024) and Cam's $12.7M cap hit (due to voidable years)
Posted on 2/25/23 at 10:30 am to saints5021
quote:
The Saints can always sign anyone they want to sign. We are the only ones who care about caps space
Only they can’t.
Posted on 2/25/23 at 10:33 am to Vood
quote:
They are not doing this just to get under the cap. They are doing this to sign Free agents as well as get under the cap.
Well they probably are because they’re poorly run and in self preservation mode. I’m sure we’ll sign some more aging oft injured vets on the back end of their primes instead of signing our key guys like Hendrickson and Williams who are in their mid 20s.
We’ll then have to push those aging vets contracts around into the future in the upcoming years to clear more space and keep repeating the cycle.
This post was edited on 2/25/23 at 10:35 am
Posted on 2/25/23 at 10:52 am to St Augustine
Let’s just have a little faith in the front office at this point. For the last decade we have been saying that we will eventually have to tank bc of cap hell but they keep making it work year after year. We have lost a couple of guys along the way that didn’t make sense to keep financially but we have always made room for the must keeps core guys thus far. This is their job and they have given us no reason not to believe that they don’t have a plan for the cap. Let’s not assume that signing Carr will force us into a cap situation that we can’t recover from.
Posted on 2/25/23 at 11:04 am to Mpd31
quote:
For the last decade we have been saying that we will eventually have to tank bc of cap hell but they keep making it work year after year.
And that time is now IMO. Obviously they’re not going to feel that way because they’re trying to keep their jobs but the bill is coming due for that last ride with Brees(which we had to do).
We can keep kicking money forward but it’s going to result in more. Dead cap hits as we push that money.
I don’t think anyone wants to tank. Just don’t make any big money purchases that will continue this cycle with an ever lowering ceiling.
“Tanking” doesn’t have to be purposefully trying to suck. It can be a year or two where you act financially responsible and develop a bunch of younger players that you acquire from the draft and UDFA that you aren’t paying big FA contracts to. Sometimes those teams even surprise you and play just as well as the Mayes and Mathieu’s of the world at this stage of their careers.
This post was edited on 2/25/23 at 11:06 am
Posted on 2/25/23 at 11:49 am to St Augustine
I actually agree with what you’re saying. I just don’t hate us signing Carr bc we need to find a qb some where and I actually like Carr but I agree we shouldn’t be contenders on any other high profile players at any other positions until we get a better hold on the cap. Carr isn’t a must sign for me either though but I like him as an option.Don’t want the team to just sink into a complete loser mentality bc then you would truly end up in a complete rebuild.
Posted on 2/25/23 at 11:55 am to moneyg
quote:
This is why you need to tank a year or two and get your financial affairs in order.
Unless you have a ready made super bowl team, a QB like Carr will destroy a franchise. Good enough to take up way too much cap for you to build around...and not good enough to lift a mediocre team to elite status...but good enough to make sure you never get a high draft pick.
Bingo.
Posted on 2/25/23 at 12:30 pm to saints5021
quote:
How is adding a top 12 QB in a QB driven league going to extend our tanking?
Oh for Christ's sake dont be so logical. Saints talk wont like it.
This post was edited on 2/25/23 at 12:32 pm
Posted on 2/25/23 at 12:33 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Let's assume we have another historical draft like 2017. Instead of losing Hendrickson and Williams, we'll lose Lattimore, Kamara, and Ram, too.
No we wont, unless we want to. BTW in 2027/2028 we might not care if we lose those players.
This post was edited on 2/25/23 at 12:34 pm
Posted on 2/25/23 at 12:46 pm to Mpd31
I wouldn’t hate us signing Carr at all if he was maybe 2-3 years younger and Payton was still coaching. In fact I think it would’ve been a fantastic fit. I just think our problems currently are multi fold with the cap being one of them, the lack of qb being the second, and the dollar store CSP coaching staff being the biggest. I’d hate to exacerbate problem one by signing Carr then the next coaching staff really having a different vision for what they wanted out of the qb position in their offense.
Posted on 2/25/23 at 2:21 pm to saints5021
quote:
New Orleans is not a market you can tank in.
They did for the longest time, no?
Posted on 2/25/23 at 2:38 pm to paulbeasy
quote:
No we wont, unless we want to.
Uh what?
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