re: Woj: 16 Players Have Tested Positive for Covid

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you're the one in every one of these fricking threads every day leading the argument

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I've stayed out of several, but point taken.

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if not help functionally eliminate the exponential growth threat of the virus so we can get back to normal sooner

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They actually aren't saying this at all. The goal of those things isn't to "go back to normal sooner".

The purpose of all those things is to stretch all of this out indefinitely until there is a cure or vaccine widespread.

If we wanted things sooner, we would just let it go and attempt to get herd immunity. That would be much faster and "sooner".

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The purpose of all those things is to stretch all of this out indefinitely until there is a cure or vaccine widespread.

If we wanted things sooner, we would just let it go and attempt to get herd immunity. That would be much faster and "sooner".

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This is just deja vu again, No, those recommendations don’t assume a vaccine.

Herd immunity has been a failure in Sweden and there is little compelling evidence that is a preferable route to go here. Florida and Texas right now are perfect examples of the technical infeasability of that

Herd immunity requires roughly half the population to get infected before any real benefit is seen, we in no way have either the capacity, and many scientists even think the ability, to go that route. And with half the population infected, even at the currently low CDC number which doesn’t yet incorporate or estimate excessive deaths or have rectified the discrepancies in death reporting(Florida for instance only reports the primary cause, even if that is listed as heart failure after someone was on a ventilator for Covid in the ICU, so you get lower than elsewhere numbers), you would be looking at nearly half a million deaths.

So we have seen reports of Brogdon, Len, Parker and Hield so far.

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Herd immunity has been a failure in Sweden

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Nope.

It has worked great and they are at their lowest data points currently for positives and deaths. Looks to have run its course there.

The same approach was not feasible here but you completely missed my point.

The WHOLE PURPOSE of all of those safety measures is NOT to go back to normal sooner. It is to stretch it out as long as possible to avoid overwhelming the medical system until we have an effective cure or vaccine. There's no arguing any other side, that is an absolute fact.

It was never about SOONER. That is the only point I was making.

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Herd immunity requires roughly half the population to get infected before any real benefit is seen

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There are arguments from anywhere from 30 - 80 % of the population.

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And at the same time that side is saying that it’s okay to gather in large groups for protests, but not gather in large groups for any other reason. There are instances where they literally say “try to keep protests to 100 or fewer people, but all other gatherings outdoors should be 12 or fewer”. I appreciate how you left that out. And I realize that isn’t your stance, but that is and has been the stance of the left.

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So they are encouraging protests(dangerous in terms of potential to spread Covid) but trying to impress good practices when doing so(which can mitigate a lot of the danger if done correctly).

The “other” side is saying lets gather for all manner of events, immediately, and frick those practices, they make you a freedom hating pussy.

So again, still not quite seeing the equivalence here?

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Nope.

It has worked great and they are at their lowest data points currently for positives and deaths. Looks to have run its course there.

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You have a funny definition of “working great.”

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Sweden has the largest number of cases and fatalities in Scandinavia—around 37?000 confirmed cases at the time of writing, compared with its neighbours Denmark, Norway, and Finland which have 12?000, 8000, and 7000 cases, respectively. All three neighbouring countries adopted a lockdown approach early in the pandemic, which they are now slowly lifting. All three have since re-opened their borders, but not to Sweden.

Sweden recorded the most coronavirus deaths per capita in Europe in a seven day average between 25 May and 2 June. The country’s mortality rate was 5.29 deaths per million inhabitants a day (the UK ranked second with 4.48) according to Our World In Data,2 an online research publication based at the University of Oxford.

And what of herd immunity? An ongoing nationwide study conducted by the Public Health Agency of Sweden on 20 May found that just 7.3% of Stockholm residents had developed covid-19 antibodies by late April—and that was the largest number of positive results found in the country.

“It means that just like other European cities in hard hit countries, it will take a long time before the majority of the population has gone through the infection and are likely immune,” said Tove Fall, professor in epidemiology at Uppsala University.

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It didn’t produce or even appreciably accelerate herd immunity, it simply led to more deaths with no real appreciable gain relative to their neighbors that took more consensus approaches. Now people have largely lost confidence in the strategy, and given participation of the population to go along is pretty crucial, it is looking like a largely failed strategy that simply unnecessarily killed more people.

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The WHOLE PURPOSE of all of those safety measures is NOT to go back to normal sooner. It is to stretch it out as long as possible to avoid overwhelming the medical system until we have an effective cure or vaccine. There's no arguing any other side, that is an absolute fact.

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Read the CDC guidelines, they have no mention of those guidelines being conditional on the development of a vaccine(If you say otherwise please cite the location and quote the relevant language).They are simply conditional on the Best achieving the goal of reducing and controlling the spread. No one knows if one is even possible or will happen, or whether the virus will simply mutate every year like the flu, or if people remain immune beyond a few months, so we need measures to control the spread and minimize it. Those guidelines are the tool to do so. Failing to adhere to them so far has led to predictable results and the people that keep betting against them keep showing themselves to get it wrong.

Let's see if we can get this back on track

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Andrew Lopez @_Andrew_Lopez

Silver on the rise in cases in Florida: "Yes, the level of concern has increased. Not just because of increased levels there, but throughout the country. ... We designed our campus to isolate ourselves to whatever the level of cases were in the surrounding community. ..."

Silver says the league is still discussing procedures with Disney to test workers who will be coming in and out of the campus.

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If the Disney employees have similar daily testing, then it should be a decently secure bubble. It will be interesting to see when those details get released.

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You are completely wrong in Sweden. It’s working and Isn’t over yet. Look at their death chart. Get back to me.

But I’ll end this discussion and stick to the topic.

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Define working?

I just gave you a piece from the British Medical Journal contextualizing all of that stuff.

More people died than their neighbors that took the consensus approach and they aren't anywhere near herd immunity. They can follow the path of their neighbors in terms of death rate from here on out and it wouldn’t make it a success.

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A 5% positive rate is pretty low in most urban areas of the country

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It's great when you consider the % of folks who get tested because they have symptoms compared to NBA players being tested because they had to.