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Message
re: Woj: 16 Players Have Tested Positive for Covid
Posted on 6/26/20 at 1:55 pm to Bronc
Posted on 6/26/20 at 1:55 pm to Bronc
quote:
So now we are just rewriting history to try and go the ad hominem route huh?
quote:
I’m not about to make the absurdist claim that the protesting police brutality is of the same moral equivalent of attending a fricking sports game.
You justified it again and again.
They are exactly the same. Coronavirus doesn't have a moral compass. It doesn't know which cause is subjectively righteous and which is not.
Once you attempt to unreasonably justify events that fit your political worldview and try to villify ones that don't, you contribute to the hyper politics of the issue.
If people had stayed consistent and scientific, and vilified all of these events, and kept them on the same footing, there wouldn't have been a logical problem with condemning meetings of other kinds.
And here we are in an alleged 2nd wave because of all of this.
This post was edited on 6/26/20 at 1:58 pm
1
Posted on 6/26/20 at 1:58 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
You justified it again and again.
They are exactly the same. Coronavirus doesn't have a moral compass. It doesn't know which cause is subjectively righteous and which is not.
You seem to not be able to read as well.
Saying sports games and protests grown out of systemic state brutality are not morally equivalent is not the same as saying the protests were perfectly fine in the context of Covid. Which you conveniently left out where I repeatedly said people failing to abide by social distancing and CDC guidelines, whether it be protests or going to bars/restaurants, are condemnable no matter the situation.
But I see you are trying to move goalposts since it seems you realize you lost the last argument and don’t really have a convincing argument to defend the equivalency you want to frame so are going after me personally and at the conversation asymmetrically. Which makes this seem like this is more about appealing to the audience and hoping someone comes to your defense to pile on instead of actually engaging the discussion on its merits(the classic politard way).
This post was edited on 6/26/20 at 2:03 pm
Posted on 6/26/20 at 2:00 pm to Bronc
quote:
He used it to selfishly extend his culture wars
If you see what’s going on in today’s world and you think that the president is the one creating a “culture war”
ETA: the issue is that your “side” has an issue accepting fault. There are plenty of people that will say that the president has faults and hasn’t been perfect. But the messaging from the left that the protests are okay (the left, not you specifically), has probably done more harm during this event than anything that the president has done, or failed to do.
This post was edited on 6/26/20 at 2:06 pm
Posted on 6/26/20 at 2:07 pm to Bronc
quote:
Saying sports games and protests grown out of systemic state brutality are not morally equivalent is not the same as saying the protests were perfectly fine in the context of Covid. Which you conveniently left out where I repeatedly said people failing to abide by social distancing and CDC guidelines, whether it be protests or going to bars/restaurants, are condemnable no matter the situation.
You did so after being called out on what a lunatic and unreasonable position that is. And I see you threw in the "systemic state brutality" to further prove my point at how far extreme your politics are, you can't even write a sentence with injecting a phrase like that in there.
No goal posts are being moved.
The facts as I see them are that both sides have hyper politicized this event.
The actual data is that this is an event with a .246 mortality rate, and .1% for people under 50. We should have done a better job of protecting the elderly, those in nursing homes, and those who are immuno-compromised.
Making a big deal out of a rise in cases when a rise in cases is EXPECTED when a state opens up is pure politics. Unless the Hospitals are in danger of being overrun, there is nothing we can or should do beyond stress social distancing and encourging people to act responsibly.
Posted on 6/26/20 at 2:15 pm to Epic Cajun
I didn’t say he created anything, but he definitely has his own brand of it and uses the energy he can generate by attacking those fault lines for selfish purposes(as do many).
The problem comes in when the manner and approach he uses gets channeled through a pandemic situation where what is needed is a unified consensus around scientifically backed guidelines and individual behavioral principles and what you get instead is his brand of divisive us vs. them(Where the the “them” here is the scientific community and the people adhering to their most popular suggestions), which Balkanizes the population and the needed space for politicians to make tough choices and the collective effort of individuals to combat this virus until a vaccine can be made, or it can be brought down to manageable levels and normalcy can return across the country.
The problem comes in when the manner and approach he uses gets channeled through a pandemic situation where what is needed is a unified consensus around scientifically backed guidelines and individual behavioral principles and what you get instead is his brand of divisive us vs. them(Where the the “them” here is the scientific community and the people adhering to their most popular suggestions), which Balkanizes the population and the needed space for politicians to make tough choices and the collective effort of individuals to combat this virus until a vaccine can be made, or it can be brought down to manageable levels and normalcy can return across the country.
Posted on 6/26/20 at 2:19 pm to Bronc
quote:
unified consensus around scientifically backed guidelines and individual behavioral principles
The issue is there isn't one. There are prominent scientists, such as the epidemeologist at Stanford whose name I'm forgetting, that has downplayed this all significantly.
Some people have advocated for herd immunity that is working amazingly well in Sweden, while others say that would lead to the death of MILLIONS.
There is not some one size fits all answer. I wish there was.
Trump hasn't done a very good job in messaging, that's for sure. He says too many stupid, borish, self centered things to get an effective message across.
Posted on 6/26/20 at 2:19 pm to Fun Bunch
Multiple data points in many cities have shown the protests did not lead to an increase in cases. Here cases have continued to drop. There are many other cities where this is true.
Posted on 6/26/20 at 2:24 pm to quail man
Wrong.
Also, you realize how they find out where its coming from right? Asking questions from contact tracing.
Guess what New York is SPECIFICALLY NOT doing in that contact tracing: Asking if they went to a protest.
If they don't ask the question, it can't be linked. Hence my point in that this is all ridiculously politicized by both sides to our detriment.
You'd have to be a complete idiot to believe that it is not spreading in gatherings of thousands of people in protests but it is spreading in 50 people going to bars. It is asinine.
It will spread in ANY large gathering, whether its a wedding, bar, a protest, a concert, whatever. If people gather it will spread. It does not give a frick that you are raging against the machine.
Also, you realize how they find out where its coming from right? Asking questions from contact tracing.
Guess what New York is SPECIFICALLY NOT doing in that contact tracing: Asking if they went to a protest.
If they don't ask the question, it can't be linked. Hence my point in that this is all ridiculously politicized by both sides to our detriment.
You'd have to be a complete idiot to believe that it is not spreading in gatherings of thousands of people in protests but it is spreading in 50 people going to bars. It is asinine.
It will spread in ANY large gathering, whether its a wedding, bar, a protest, a concert, whatever. If people gather it will spread. It does not give a frick that you are raging against the machine.
This post was edited on 6/26/20 at 2:25 pm
Posted on 6/26/20 at 2:24 pm to quail man
quote:
Multiple data points in many cities have shown the protests did not lead to an increase in cases. Here cases have continued to drop. There are many other cities where this is true.
If you believe the virus knows the difference between a protest and another gathering of people...
Posted on 6/26/20 at 2:26 pm to Epic Cajun
We have literally found out why as I pointed above. Because they are not asking the question in their contact tracing. We know this for a fact.
They ARE asking if you went to a restaurant, bar etc. But NOT if you went to a protest.
They ARE asking if you went to a restaurant, bar etc. But NOT if you went to a protest.
Posted on 6/26/20 at 2:28 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
The facts as I see them are that both sides have hyper politicized this event.
Except you aren't presenting these “facts” so we can weigh and judge them. Like the last thread, you just assert crap and demand only of others to justify with back up their conclusions.
quote:
You did so after being called out on what a lunatic and unreasonable position that is. And I see you threw in the "systemic state brutality" to further prove my point at how far extreme your politics are, you can't even write a sentence with injecting a phrase like that in there.
You literally had to read through and slice up my post to get that quote you pulled earlier, Which was the first time I commented at all on the protests that you all injected into the conversation. So you are literally lying through your fricking teeth
My quote:
quote:
I’ve made my thoughts clear. Re-open under strict guidelines(like the CDC), when people fail to adhere to proper guidelines that is condemnable, protesting or not. But if you are trying to morally equivocate going to an NBA game and protesting police brutality so you can try and demand people condemn black people for your amusement you can get fricked.
Which you edited out the beginning and then claimed I only said that part AFTER being challenged on apparently having the audacity to call protesting state brutality(sorry it triggers you) not of the same moral urgency and weight as attending a sports game. That regardless, failure to adhere to guidelines and practices is not acceptable because of that.
This post was edited on 6/26/20 at 2:31 pm
Posted on 6/26/20 at 2:29 pm to Fun Bunch
I want to be clear: I am not specifically advocating for a side here. I think Trump is often a fricking moron that says absolutely dumb shite constantly.
I'm saying both sides have acted poorly and politicized this event to such an extreme that the lines between reality are so far blurred no one knows anything.
The data does not point to this being as extreme one way or the other as both sides want it to be.
The fact that this opinion is controversial says it all, IMO.
I'm saying both sides have acted poorly and politicized this event to such an extreme that the lines between reality are so far blurred no one knows anything.
The data does not point to this being as extreme one way or the other as both sides want it to be.
The fact that this opinion is controversial says it all, IMO.
Posted on 6/26/20 at 2:30 pm to Bronc
quote:
That regardless, failure to adhere to guidelines and practices is not acceptable because of that.
Fair enough. Mea culpa
Posted on 6/26/20 at 2:31 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
I want to be clear: I am not specifically advocating for a side here. I think Trump is often a fricking moron that says absolutely dumb shite constantly.
I'm saying both sides have acted poorly and politicized this event to such an extreme that the lines between reality are so far blurred no one knows anything.
This is the opinion that reasonable people have. But the far left and far right want to point fingers at each other without accepting that their “team” may hold any of the blame.
Posted on 6/26/20 at 2:32 pm to Fun Bunch
Covid has just become like every other issue in the country.
It often sounds trite to say the truth lies somewhere in the middle. But the country has become so polarized, and the loud minority of extremists on both sides drive so much of the narrative and discourse, that the truth almost always does lie somewhere in the middle. And both sides are almost always guilty of being disingenuous, fear mongering, and manipulative to some degree
It often sounds trite to say the truth lies somewhere in the middle. But the country has become so polarized, and the loud minority of extremists on both sides drive so much of the narrative and discourse, that the truth almost always does lie somewhere in the middle. And both sides are almost always guilty of being disingenuous, fear mongering, and manipulative to some degree
This post was edited on 6/26/20 at 2:33 pm
Posted on 6/26/20 at 2:33 pm to Epic Cajun
We have come to a point in society that "facts" just don't exist anymore.
Hence arguing politics on a goddamned Basketball forum.
Hence arguing politics on a goddamned Basketball forum.
Posted on 6/26/20 at 2:33 pm to Epic Cajun
quote:
If you believe the virus knows the difference between a protest and another gathering of people...
when did I say anything remotely close to this?
Posted on 6/26/20 at 2:36 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
Guess what New York is SPECIFICALLY NOT doing in that contact tracing: Asking if they went to a protest
So why isn’t New York or Minnesota, which had much larger and longer sustained protests, not seeing the uptick Texas and Florida is? Which had smaller and fewer protests?
There is no doubt that the protests will be a contributing factor to case rises, but the data so far does not really support them as any sort of significant driver, they may yet be but as of right now one data point does not a case make
Posted on 6/26/20 at 2:36 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
Wrong.
no. i never said every single city. i said there are multiple data points. NYC and Chicago are two. there are others.
quote:
You'd have to be a complete idiot to believe that it is not spreading in gatherings of thousands of people in protests but it is spreading in 50 people going to bars. It is asinine.
it can spread in both. it spreads far more easily in a crowded bar where people aren't wearing masks as opposed to outdoor protests where people for the most part (please pay close attention to that wording) kept distance and wore masks.
Posted on 6/26/20 at 2:38 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
Hence arguing politics on a goddamned Basketball forum.
you're the one in every one of these fricking threads every day leading the argument
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