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re: Windhorst: Vaughn "Gaining Traction"
Posted on 6/26/21 at 4:53 pm to Bronc
Posted on 6/26/21 at 4:53 pm to Bronc
quote:if anything I think saying “oh look he went 7-3 while he was HC for the Nets“ and not adding his 0-4 record in the playoff that same season to make it 7-7 shows your agenda.
No one is saying that shite, but ignoring it comes off like you have an agenda
2
Posted on 6/26/21 at 4:56 pm to Macintosh
quote:
if anything I think saying “oh look he went 7-3 while he was HC for the Nets“ and not adding his 0-4 record in the playoff that same season to make it 7-7 shows your agenda.
Ive said before I'm indifferent at this point. That Im asking for people to make convincing cases that don't just amount to Vaughn was bad ten years ago.
Tell me why, in 2021, we should go one over the other. List me out the core competencies, expert analysis, and work history that makes Lee the clear better choice. I'm ready to buy in, but you need to pitch it. Why Lee is not just better than an alternative, but actually good on his merits.
Just selectively cherry picking Vaughn's work history and hand waving signs of growth aint it. I'm already skeptical of Vaughn, but there are good indicators as well, but convince me why I shouldn't be equally concerned and skeptical Charles Lee isn't just the next 36 year old version of Vaughn?
This post was edited on 6/26/21 at 5:00 pm
Posted on 6/26/21 at 5:00 pm to Macintosh
quote:
shows your agenda.
C'mon, man. Bronc hasn't been pushing Vaughn. Neither am I. I'd prefer Lee, based on what we know. I just don't like the reductive thinking of "Vaughn wasn't successful six years ago, so he's a bad choice for us now."
Posted on 6/26/21 at 5:02 pm to Bronc
quote:you’re the one cherry picking my guy valuing a 10 game sample size over a 3 year stint. Im indifferent as well but I don’t see the issue with counter arguing with your points on why Vaughn should be hired or at least why it’s not a bad idea. At the end of the day none of us know shite about assistants in this league. At least for Vaughn we’ve seen what he’s done as a HC. 98% of the time it hasn’t been good.
Just selectively cherry picking his work history and hand waving signs of growth aint it
For Lee, I question his leadership abilities. Can he motivate guys? He seems very laid back and casual from the small interviews I’ve seen. Darvin Ham has more of a rep of being a motivator.
Posted on 6/26/21 at 5:05 pm to GOP_Tiger
quote:and I haven’t been pushing Lee either. He’s the one who’s saying I had an agenda originally
C'mon, man. Bronc hasn't been pushing Vaughn. Neither am I
Posted on 6/26/21 at 5:09 pm to GOP_Tiger
quote:Why not? Do we really have anything else to go on? Has he learned from his mistakes as a head coach previously? I honestly don't know, but can see why some are concerned about his last stint.
I just don't like the reductive thinking of "Vaughn wasn't successful six years ago, so he's a bad choice for us now."
Posted on 6/26/21 at 5:14 pm to Macintosh
quote:
you’re the one cherry picking my guy valuing a 10 game sample size over a 3 year stint.
Again, can you not read or are you doing this shite intentionally?
Not saying that erases the questions, but not sure why we aren't also incorporating into this conversation that like Nate, Vaughn demonstrated growth as a coach when given he opportunity, albeit a limited sample size.
Both things can be true:
1.) Big questions remain about if Vaughn can be the leader of an organization as a head coach and find success after a terrible outing in Orlando
2.) There are signs from recent work history and expert praise that improvements have been made, although the questions from his past history remain.
What I'm saying is the same core questions can be said about Lee and then some, but the posture for one is vastly different from the other. If you aren't Lee over Vaughn than my question isn't directed at you, but for those that are. I'm looking for more info.
Posted on 6/26/21 at 5:50 pm to Bronc
We have two all stars and more draft capita than anyone but OKC and the best we can do is a retread and an unproven no name?
You’d think there’d be some better candidates interested.
Even if we didn’t hire them, it’s depressing that there is so little apparent interest in the job.
You’d think there’d be some better candidates interested.
Even if we didn’t hire them, it’s depressing that there is so little apparent interest in the job.
Posted on 6/26/21 at 5:52 pm to ghost2most
quote:
the best we can do is a retread and an unproven no name?
What’s the alternative?
An unproven name? So you only want a former player?
Posted on 6/26/21 at 6:04 pm to ghost2most
quote:
We have two all stars and more draft capita than anyone but OKC and the best we can do is a retread and an unproven no name?
You’d think there’d be some better candidates interested.
The Pels are not a playoff team yet. You know who takes over non playoff teams? Unproven guys looking for a first chance and retreads looking for a 2nd chance. Maybe if you had offered full control before hiring Griff you could have attracted a "big name" like Calipari, if that's what you even wanted. But most recent attempts at holding both roles have failed miserably.
The only way for this job to have been attractive to the level a lot of you seem to think is "right" for the Pels would be for one of the last 2 coaches to be successful enough that they didn't get fired in the first place.
This post was edited on 6/26/21 at 6:05 pm
Posted on 6/26/21 at 6:11 pm to SLafourche07
Nah, Spo and Nick Nurse were supposed to fight over who was going to take the bigger pay cut to coach the Pels.
Posted on 6/26/21 at 6:53 pm to ghost2most
quote:
You’d think there’d be some better candidates interested.
Who though?
“Better” is relative. Outside of a guy like Carlisle, these guys either haven’t been a HC or are “retreads”
Posted on 6/27/21 at 2:13 am to GynoSandberg
I will say the more interviews I watch of him on YouTube and what other coaches say about him, he does seem like a like able guy who knows his stuff.
Posted on 6/27/21 at 8:21 pm to Bronc
quote:
Well man, you convinced me with that thorough argument you put forth....
Why the frick would I try and convince you? Think whatever want. I simply answered the question you explicitly asked.
Posted on 6/28/21 at 7:35 am to ghost2most
quote:
We have two all stars and more draft capita than anyone but OKC and the best we can do is a retread and an unproven no name?
You’d think there’d be some better candidates interested.
Even if we didn’t hire them, it’s depressing that there is so little apparent interest in the job.
3rd head coach in 3 years
potential disgruntled star in zion
small market NOLA
lots of negatives unfortunately
Posted on 6/28/21 at 8:32 am to geauxtigers87
I think the perception of an overbearing GM that has thrown two coaches under the bus already is always going to create a chilling effect in the coaching market.
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