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Message
re: Why is Graham playing more than Dyson?
Posted on 1/7/23 at 2:38 pm to Dinky Mulberry
Posted on 1/7/23 at 2:38 pm to Dinky Mulberry
quote:
Amazing how many around here actually think Dyson is even in the same ballpark as Herb...defensively.
You could have the argument on who is better, but he's without a doubt in the ball park.
My personal viewpoint on it, Dyson has been a better defender than Herb this season. Eye test and statistics confirm that, statistics actually say he's been considerably better. We had this conversation on this board a few weeks ago, how Herb has taken a step back defensively from where he was last season, so this isn't anything new. Now am I ready to definitively say Dyson is better? I don't know, Herb has already missed stretches of games this year on three different occasions, so I have no way of knowing how right he is in terms of health.
Now the one thing I will definitively say, Dyson is a better off ball/rotational defender than Herb. But I also said he would be when we drafted him. Going back to statistics, if you look at stats that would relate to off ball, those stats say he's already one of the better off ball defenders as a rookie.
1
Posted on 1/7/23 at 3:19 pm to CP3forMVP
OK...and you're probably right about my using "not in the same ballpark"...I think I was just trying to say it's not close, at this time. I think Dyson will be the 2nd best defensive player on the Pels before very long...which is both a compliment for Dyson...and sadly, a reflection on just how bad I think the Pels are defensively, other than Herb.
BTW...ever wonder why Dyson doesn't get more run than he does now? Hint: If WG thought Dyson was anywhere close to Herb defensively...we'd be seeing a whole lot more of Dyson than we currently are. Of course, this is just my opinion...I COULD be wrong.
BTW...ever wonder why Dyson doesn't get more run than he does now? Hint: If WG thought Dyson was anywhere close to Herb defensively...we'd be seeing a whole lot more of Dyson than we currently are. Of course, this is just my opinion...I COULD be wrong.
Posted on 1/7/23 at 3:50 pm to Dinky Mulberry
Willie is also the same guy who played Temple 20 minutes a night for nearly 3/4 of the season last season and played Graham 30 minutes a night for 85% of last season, when neither were deserving of that much run, and that was obvious early. Not to mention other personnel decisions that took way too long to adjust too. I think he’s a guy that has proven he’s going to really let something run it’s course before he makes a change.
With all that said, I’m not even necessarily one of those guys who thinks Herb needs to be replaced by Dyson. Herb and Dyson are kind of unrelated to me. My issue is Dyson and Graham. Though I do think they’ll have to go back to the drawing table with Herb a bit if his offensive contributions don’t improve. Sub 40% from the field and sub 30% from three. His 3pt attempt rate is at 40% during that time, that number was at 29.7% last season and 27% in the playoffs last year. His best offense last season was attacking close outs from the weak side and he isn’t doing much of that this year.
With all that said, I’m not even necessarily one of those guys who thinks Herb needs to be replaced by Dyson. Herb and Dyson are kind of unrelated to me. My issue is Dyson and Graham. Though I do think they’ll have to go back to the drawing table with Herb a bit if his offensive contributions don’t improve. Sub 40% from the field and sub 30% from three. His 3pt attempt rate is at 40% during that time, that number was at 29.7% last season and 27% in the playoffs last year. His best offense last season was attacking close outs from the weak side and he isn’t doing much of that this year.
Posted on 1/7/23 at 4:26 pm to CP3forMVP
quote:
His 3pt attempt rate is at 40% during that time, that number was at 29.7% last season and 27% in the playoffs last year. His best offense last season was attacking close outs from the weak side and he isn’t doing much of that this year.
Just a couple of things. WG waited all of ONE game last year to begin starting Herb (and he played 3 minutes in that first game, when he didn't start) I'm not sure WG is quite as slow to give players run as you think. He just really likes them to know what they are suppose to be doing when on the court. Herb, last year, should prove that point.
Also, for folks that like to use stats...and I do also, although I try and make sure I understand the limitations they often have...when you say things like "his 3pt attempt rate is at 40% during that time, that number was at 29.7% last season and 27% in the playoffs last year"...you need to understand those listed #s are waaay off when talking about Herb's actual "3-pt attempt rate" both last year...and this current year. I hate to go into "why" this is correct so I'll just let you figure out why that is...on your own.
Hint: Think about the "3-pt attempts" that Herb had in the game vs the Nets last night ...then understand you need to multiply that odd situation by 40 to get a truly correct #, for last year. It's OK...you're not suppose to know this weird type stuff...but I guarantee you the Pels' analytic nerd keeps up with it.
Posted on 1/7/23 at 4:29 pm to geauxtigers87
quote:
is Graham playing more than Dyson?
Posted by geauxtigers87 ? on 1/6/23 at 9:17 pm
Why is herb playing
man. your thread subject says graham.
but your post says herb.
Posted on 1/8/23 at 9:31 am to CelticDog
Graham is quickly reverting to salary filler for a trade.
ETA - We can officially put to bed any thoughts of Graham as a PG. He really is just an undersized 2 who isn't hitting shots.
We desperately need one of our stars back.
ETA - We can officially put to bed any thoughts of Graham as a PG. He really is just an undersized 2 who isn't hitting shots.
We desperately need one of our stars back.
This post was edited on 1/8/23 at 9:38 am
Posted on 1/11/23 at 8:55 pm to Jester
2 points in 21 min when we desperately needed spacing and scoring.
What more can be said?
What more can be said?
Posted on 1/12/23 at 6:56 am to Macintosh
quote:
Graham has this false traits of being a good perimeter shooter
Yeah, I think the reputation is there but it ain't nowhere near consistent enough in the positive direction to play him more than folks who can shoot almost as well and do everything else significantly better.
Posted on 1/12/23 at 7:47 am to geauxtigers87
quote:
Why is Graham playing more than Dyson?
Why is herb playing more than Dyson? Can someone please fricking explain it to me
The real question who has progressed the most since the 2019 or 2020 draft? To me JAX Hayes is still the same player entering the draft and needs to be moved or no renewed contract. Dude is still lost out on the court and no improvement on the offensive end. Najie has made big improvement from out of control to a valid defensive and offensive talent. Kira, the jury is still out until he gets more minutes. Dyson is still 19. I like Billy but he's a duplicate of JV. Graham is totally expendable. The more he plays the less his value is.
Posted on 1/12/23 at 8:42 am to tigerinjac
Graham is one of Griff's worst moves. It's weird, he was really pretty good his first 20 or so games as a Pel and it's been downhill since.
He tries on D but it doesn't make up for his lack of consistency from deep.
There are way too many minimum salary guys that can hit 3s at a much more consistent and higher clip than him to justify his salary or minutes.
He tries on D but it doesn't make up for his lack of consistency from deep.
There are way too many minimum salary guys that can hit 3s at a much more consistent and higher clip than him to justify his salary or minutes.
Posted on 1/12/23 at 8:47 am to ghost2most
quote:
Graham is one of Griff's worst moves.
The Graham move made sense when it happened except for the cost. A 1st to S&T him always seemed outrageous. CJ + Jose + Trey make his strengths pretty redundant now. He needs to be moved to use his salary for something less redundant.
This post was edited on 1/12/23 at 8:48 am
Posted on 1/12/23 at 8:49 am to TigerinATL
quote:This
The Graham move made sense when it happened except for the cost
And it's obvious but still important to note, the Graham we got is not the Graham we expected nor is it the Graham of the previous 2 seasons.
Had we gotten that Graham, the 1st would still be an overpay, but he would be giving us solid minutes with an above average 3pt shot on high volume.
This post was edited on 1/12/23 at 8:49 am
Posted on 1/12/23 at 8:57 am to Tiger Ugly
He’s not being utilized correctly. He needs to be set up for open looks and to get into the flow of the offense. Right now he’s in for 8 minutes and just standing at the perimeter. Either run some plays for him or leave him on the bench.
Posted on 1/12/23 at 12:53 pm to Jojodaddy
quote:
He needs to be set up for open looks and to get into the flow of the offense. Right now he’s in for 8 minutes and just standing at the perimeter. Either run some plays for him or leave him on the bench.
Man if we are running plays for Devonte Graham, we're in trouble.
Posted on 1/12/23 at 12:56 pm to Tiger Ugly
FYI, he's currently shooting 35% from the field and 32% from 3.
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