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re: The Official NBA Free Agency/Offseason Thread Update: MITCHELL TO CLE
Posted on 6/28/22 at 7:39 am to TigerinATL
Posted on 6/28/22 at 7:39 am to TigerinATL
quote:
John Wall and Russell Westbrook were some of the first to get the Super Max Extensions where you get access to the 35% max a few years early. What it shows is just like regular max contracts, not everyone is worth it, but the best players on your team expect to get the best contracts you have available to give them.
On the latest Simmons podcast he and Russilo get into this re: Bradley Beal (but it gets more general).
I think teams may start shying away from these sorts of contracts for non-god tier guys. Washington should have deal Beal last year, but they have leverage now because who is going to be a threat to sign him? WAS can still pay more than pretty much any other team can, even if they don't do the 5/250 option
2
Posted on 6/28/22 at 7:44 am to cgrand
A much better system would be hard cap, no max. That still has its own issues though, because the last highest contract signed by a player of your same position essentially creates a de facto max.
Would still be better than the current system, but the owners want to protect themselves from themselves so I don’t see it changing anytime soon.
As an aside, in a hard cap no max situation what do you think the best players would be paid? 50% of the cap?
Would still be better than the current system, but the owners want to protect themselves from themselves so I don’t see it changing anytime soon.
As an aside, in a hard cap no max situation what do you think the best players would be paid? 50% of the cap?
Posted on 6/28/22 at 7:49 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
WAS can still pay more than pretty much any other team can, even if they don't do the 5/250 option
Right, but they essentially de-value their own asset by paying him 40+ mil per year. It kinda does the opposite of the intended purpose because players can still want/demand out, but now teams can’t get maximum value for them when they do trade them.
Wall, Westbrook, Gobert (to a lesser extent) soon to be Harden and Beal. These deals automatically lower the value of the asset (read: player) as soon as they are signed.
Posted on 6/28/22 at 8:15 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
I think teams may start shying away from these sorts of contracts for non-god tier guys.
You can't do that though. Remember when Minnesota refused to give the one per team designated player contract to Kevin Love because they wanted to save it for Rubio? That pretty much was the beginning of the end for Love in Minnesota. Players' egos are too fragile for that.
This post was edited on 6/28/22 at 8:16 am
Posted on 6/28/22 at 8:22 am to Epic Cajun
I’ve been a believer for a while now that the max contract doesn’t actually help small market teams. I would like to find a way to balance out free agency while also encouraging players staying with teams. Here is my plan to fix the issue. It came to me in a fever dream so I don’t have the kinks worked out and am not set on exact numbers, but generally this is what I would do.
The Baron’s 7 Step Plan:
1. Hard salary cap
2. Remove max contract rules on money, edit length to just max of 5 years
3. Eliminate all contract exceptions (MLE, BLE, Tax payer exception, etc.)
4. Team Exception: Every year each team gets 20 million that can be divided however they like amongst their players but can only be given to players who have been on the team for more than 3 seasons
5. Franchise Exception: Every year each team gets 20 million that can be divided however they like amongst their players but can only be given to players who have been on the team for 5 seasons and were drafted by that team.
6. ???
7. Profit
The Baron’s 7 Step Plan:
1. Hard salary cap
2. Remove max contract rules on money, edit length to just max of 5 years
3. Eliminate all contract exceptions (MLE, BLE, Tax payer exception, etc.)
4. Team Exception: Every year each team gets 20 million that can be divided however they like amongst their players but can only be given to players who have been on the team for more than 3 seasons
5. Franchise Exception: Every year each team gets 20 million that can be divided however they like amongst their players but can only be given to players who have been on the team for 5 seasons and were drafted by that team.
6. ???
7. Profit
Posted on 6/28/22 at 8:34 am to Baron
quote:
3. Eliminate all contract exceptions (MLE, BLE, Tax payer exception, etc.)
i feel like these have helped the pelicans a lot over the years. didn't they use part of a MLE to get CJ?
Posted on 6/28/22 at 8:44 am to geauxtigers87
quote:
i feel like these have helped the pelicans a lot over the years. didn't they use part of a MLE to get CJ?
If you enact a true Hard Cap then they aren’t needed. Part of my plan is to simplify the cap rules. They’re overly complicated and bloated.
You might be thinking of us taking Nance into our Traded Player Exception. I’m fine with keeping that. I don’t consider that a Contract Exception like the others I referenced
This post was edited on 6/28/22 at 8:46 am
Posted on 6/28/22 at 8:46 am to Baron
People have been clamoring for a hard cap and no max for years, its just never going to happen. would be ideal though
The one thing I would say and agree with, there has to be a way to keep your own players. Exceptions for players you drafted, etc.
The one thing I would say and agree with, there has to be a way to keep your own players. Exceptions for players you drafted, etc.
This post was edited on 6/28/22 at 8:47 am
Posted on 6/28/22 at 8:47 am to geauxtigers87
quote:
i feel like these have helped the pelicans a lot over the years. didn't they use part of a MLE to get CJ?
They may have helped the team in the past, but we would be operating in a completely different environment.
I'm not sure how part of the MLE would've been used in the CJ trade. Maybe one of the players who we traded in the trade had their salary paid by the MLE, but I don't believe so. I know we spent part of the MLE to give Herb a guaranteed contract. Same with Jose and Naji (the previous year for Naji).
Posted on 6/28/22 at 8:52 am to Fun Bunch
quote:They could keep the Bird Rights Exception, but don't allow it to be transferred. In current state, with it being able to be transferred, it's too easy for players to be moved from team to team with no negative repercussions. Honestly, that may just be the answer. If they just stopped Bird Rights from transferring with the traded player it would stop a ton of player movement.
The one thing I would say and agree with, there has to be a way to keep your own players. Exceptions for players you drafted, etc.
Basically you have to have drafted the player, or signed them via free agency (to at least a 3 year contract) to get their Bird Rights.
This post was edited on 6/28/22 at 8:53 am
Posted on 6/28/22 at 9:02 am to Epic Cajun
I know it’s not perfectly thought out, but I wanted a way to stop the new trend of signing a max and then immediately demanding a trade. If there is floating money that gets allocated on a year-to-year basis, then it gives the player incentive to stay. It does potentially punish a player that wants to stay, but gets traded anyway
Posted on 6/28/22 at 9:10 am to Epic Cajun
quote:
They could keep the Bird Rights Exception, but don't allow it to be transferred
That's always been my solution. Your Bird's Rights reset with each team.
But you can still do S/T so that makes it more difficult.
Posted on 6/28/22 at 9:27 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
That's always been my solution. Your Bird's Rights reset with each team.
I’m okay with that, but it potentially punishes the players. For example, a player signs a 4 year deal, but gets traded (against his wishes) with 2 years left. Now they don’t have his bird rights and he potentially loses out on a bigger payday. I guess he could always do a 1+1 extension to protect himself some, but he still misses out on a guaranteed longer contract.
Posted on 6/28/22 at 9:28 am to Baron
The problem with a hard cap is that the current system allows a balance that works for big-market and small-market teams.
The reason that MLB can't do a cap is that the season is 162 games, and local revenue from TV and attendance is so much bigger a part of total league revenue. Even some kind of soft cap would really take a ton of money from richer teams and give it to poorer teams.
In contrast, the NFL plays fewer games, and national TV revenue is such a huge part of the total revenue that a hard cap works for the league.
The NBA is in between the MLB and the NFL, which is why the soft cap "works" and is reasonably fair. If the NBA had a true hard cap, then either:
1) Players would collectively get paid less, or
2) Small-market teams would have to spend a good bit more, which would make them significantly less profitable, or even unprofitable.
Neither of those things works for the league. The economics of the NBA work because of the soft cap and the tax system.
The reason that MLB can't do a cap is that the season is 162 games, and local revenue from TV and attendance is so much bigger a part of total league revenue. Even some kind of soft cap would really take a ton of money from richer teams and give it to poorer teams.
In contrast, the NFL plays fewer games, and national TV revenue is such a huge part of the total revenue that a hard cap works for the league.
The NBA is in between the MLB and the NFL, which is why the soft cap "works" and is reasonably fair. If the NBA had a true hard cap, then either:
1) Players would collectively get paid less, or
2) Small-market teams would have to spend a good bit more, which would make them significantly less profitable, or even unprofitable.
Neither of those things works for the league. The economics of the NBA work because of the soft cap and the tax system.
Posted on 6/28/22 at 9:30 am to Baron
i feel like a simpler solution would be for each team to designate a salary every year that does not count against the cap
Posted on 6/28/22 at 9:44 am to GOP_Tiger
quote:
1) Players would collectively get paid less, or
2) Small-market teams would have to spend a good bit more, which would make them significantly less profitable, or even unprofitable.
The answer is number 1. That’s why they won’t ever get away from the soft cap and I know that.
I still would like to do away with Max contracts, but I don’t know how you do that without a Hard cap. Otherwise the small market teams suffer.
Posted on 6/28/22 at 9:46 am to Baron
Another thing:
Non-taxpaying teams currently make a lot of money off of the tax paying teams. That would go away.
I think a lot of owners don't want that.
Non-taxpaying teams currently make a lot of money off of the tax paying teams. That would go away.
I think a lot of owners don't want that.
Posted on 6/28/22 at 9:54 am to Fun Bunch
Yeah for all the grinding and grunting of small market fans, I don't think small market owners largely want much change.
They will want a way to keep young stars and punish trade demands/hold outs and call it a day.
They will want a way to keep young stars and punish trade demands/hold outs and call it a day.
Posted on 6/28/22 at 9:55 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
They will want a way to keep young stars and punish trade demands/hold outs and call it a day.
Yup, which is what it will amount to.
Posted on 6/28/22 at 10:08 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
Brandon “Scoop B” Robinson
@ScoopB
As free agency approaches, all signs pointing to Zion Williamson signing a Max extension with the New Orleans Pelicans.
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