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Message
re: The Crunch is Coming -Shamit Dua
Posted on 6/6/23 at 12:45 pm to Sheep
Posted on 6/6/23 at 12:45 pm to Sheep
I think the "move BI NOW" debate basically comes down to one thing... just what your opinion is...on BI's future development as a player, from this point forward.
If you think he's gonna turn into a top 10-20 player in the NBA...then I can fully understand keeping him around at the top dollar amount it will cost you. But, if you think he is ALREADY bangin' his head on his own personal "ceiling"...and his style of play is not what you want, in today's NBA, I think it's fairly obvious...you should move the guy ASAP...to get max value for him.
If you think he's gonna turn into a top 10-20 player in the NBA...then I can fully understand keeping him around at the top dollar amount it will cost you. But, if you think he is ALREADY bangin' his head on his own personal "ceiling"...and his style of play is not what you want, in today's NBA, I think it's fairly obvious...you should move the guy ASAP...to get max value for him.
1
Posted on 6/6/23 at 12:47 pm to Macintosh
quote:
Kinda tired of the hypothetical of both our stars staying healthy when they never do.
Its the same song and dance every offseason.
My opinion is simply I want to keep Herb and Trey and have cap flexibility to make a big move at the climax of Zions 2nd stay.
And I genuinely feel that the combo of Scoot/Trey/Herb >>>>>>>>> BI
Because at the end of the day if you sign BI to a supermax (and why he wouldnt ask for one) you lose Herb and possibly Trey.
And ive said it a million times; A guard with an elite first step that can get Zion the ball or finish at the rim is what a Zion led team needs first a foremost. The second option is a sharp shooting wing that he can kick out too (Trey) alongside a stretch big (WHOEVER).
Scoot
CJ (operates now in his own airspace unoccupied)
Trey
Zion
Stretch Center
When you need more defense you take CJ out for Herb.
Edit: Or shite take out Scoot and run point Zion with CJ/Herb/Trey
This post was edited on 6/6/23 at 12:49 pm
Posted on 6/6/23 at 12:55 pm to 50_Tiger
quote:
Its the same song and dance every offseason. My opinion is simply I want to keep Herb and Trey and have cap flexibility to make a big move at the climax of Zions 2nd stay. And I genuinely feel that the combo of Scoot/Trey/Herb >>>>>>>>> BI Because at the end of the day if you sign BI to a supermax (and why he wouldnt ask for one) you lose Herb and possibly Trey. And ive said it a million times; A guard with an elite first step that can get Zion the ball or finish at the rim is what a Zion led team needs first a foremost. The second option is a sharp shooting wing that he can kick out too (Trey) alongside a stretch big (WHOEVER). Scoot CJ (operates now in his own airspace unoccupied) Trey Zion Stretch Center When you need more defense you take CJ out for Herb. Edit: Or shite take out Scoot and run point Zion with CJ/Herb/Trey
1. BI isn’t eligible for a super max. He’s never made an all-nba team so he doesn’t meet the criteria
2. You keep ignoring the fact we can keep all of these players by dumping an overpaid CJ.
There is no guarantee that scoot is better than BI. Why get rid of BI to help the cap when you can get rid of CJ makes no sense to me.
Posted on 6/6/23 at 12:56 pm to Balsamic_duck
Bro no one is taking CJ
Posted on 6/6/23 at 12:58 pm to 50_Tiger
quote:
Bro no one is taking CJ
So use a pick and dump him. It's sunk-cost fallacy to trade BI because you gave CJ a shite contract
This post was edited on 6/6/23 at 12:59 pm
Posted on 6/6/23 at 1:29 pm to Balsamic_duck
quote:I think people are sick of giving away assets to try and make something work that hasn’t worked yet
So use a pick and dump him
Posted on 6/6/23 at 1:37 pm to Macintosh
quote:
I think people are sick of giving away assets to try and make something work that hasn’t worked yet
That's a different argument. Im saying trading BI isn't the only way to fix our cap issues. We dug ourselves into this hole by giving CJ that extension.
Posted on 6/6/23 at 1:47 pm to 50_Tiger
quote:
Bro no one is taking CJ
They will in a year, when he's an expiring. All of this "trade BI" stuff is so dumb, because there's no way it's happening.
Posted on 6/6/23 at 2:14 pm to Balsamic_duck
quote:
We dug ourselves into this hole by giving CJ that extension.
what hole is that?
Posted on 6/6/23 at 2:22 pm to GOP_Tiger
Next season, we will have a team that, if healthy, should be able to contend. Look at Denver: they had several seasons in a row when they didn't have their big 3 all healthy.
If we can be healthy next season, we have the talent to compete with anyone. If we weren't willing, a year ago, to even consider trading BI for Kevin Durant, we aren't going to dump BI for picks, even for a pick as highly regarded as Scoot.
The whole point of looking at the coming "crunch" is to see that draft picks are going to be more valuable than ever. You won't see the kind of Gobert deal that we saw a year ago, as rookie-contract deals are essential to being competitive. And guess what? We still have some good picks.
There's zero chance that we trade BI, unless he were to somehow decide that he wants out, and everything indicates that is not the case.
If we can be healthy next season, we have the talent to compete with anyone. If we weren't willing, a year ago, to even consider trading BI for Kevin Durant, we aren't going to dump BI for picks, even for a pick as highly regarded as Scoot.
The whole point of looking at the coming "crunch" is to see that draft picks are going to be more valuable than ever. You won't see the kind of Gobert deal that we saw a year ago, as rookie-contract deals are essential to being competitive. And guess what? We still have some good picks.
There's zero chance that we trade BI, unless he were to somehow decide that he wants out, and everything indicates that is not the case.
Posted on 6/6/23 at 2:25 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
what hole is that?
Little to no cap flexibility with multiple extensions looming. CJ has 2 years left on his deal and we extended him an extra 2 years for far above his market value
Posted on 6/6/23 at 2:29 pm to Balsamic_duck
I have never watched Scoot play a minute of basketball. But from what I've read, his comp is Westbrook.
Super athletic and can't shoot.
Another one is Derrick Rose. Again, do NOT Want.
Those guys do not win in the modern NBA. I want nothing to do with a lead guard that's not an elite 3 point shooter, and that includes Morant's dumb arse.
Super athletic and can't shoot.
Another one is Derrick Rose. Again, do NOT Want.
Those guys do not win in the modern NBA. I want nothing to do with a lead guard that's not an elite 3 point shooter, and that includes Morant's dumb arse.
This post was edited on 6/6/23 at 2:31 pm
Posted on 6/6/23 at 2:30 pm to GOP_Tiger
quote:they still made the playoffs, got to the second round and showed something. Their worst season has been 46 wins in the last 6-7 years. We barely make the play-in. Sorry I’m not gonna get hyped over one good month early in the season and say we HAVE to run it back.
Look at Denver: they had several seasons in a row when they didn't have their big 3 all healthy.
Posted on 6/6/23 at 2:32 pm to ghost2most
quote:he can shoot. Midrange game is very very good. Great in pick and roll. His 3 improved from his first G League season to his last. Still a work in progress but his shot looks fine.
Super athletic and can't shoot.
This post was edited on 6/6/23 at 2:34 pm
Posted on 6/6/23 at 2:42 pm to Balsamic_duck
quote:
Little to no cap flexibility with multiple extensions looming
You mean like any team with two stars on max contracts?
so the frick what if we have no cap flexibility. Why do we need that right now? You trying to go out there and sign a big name FA or something?
Making moves right now by getting rid of great players to help with your salary cap in 3 years has to be one of the stupidest moves any team could make. It makes ZERO sense.
Posted on 6/6/23 at 2:50 pm to Sheep
quote:I hear ya, I probably just replied to your post and quoted as part of the larger discussion
I'm not advocating to get rid of either CJ or BI.
quote:My issue is with BI, you already have a guy. If you trade him, you're hoping to get a guy that can maybe become as good as BI one day. And obviously you hope he'd be better, but that's probably 50/50 at best IMO.
I'm just saying that if you move CJ, you're just getting "a guy" back.
If you move BI, you're AT LEAST getting back multiple assets that have value.
quote:Russ was viewed as a more negative contract and a much higher cost and landed like 4 rotation players out of it. It can always be done.
You're not getting shite for CJ, at this point.
Posted on 6/6/23 at 2:53 pm to Balsamic_duck
quote:This
If you move CJ you aren’t trying to get anything back. You’re doing it solely for the cap to resign herb, trey and BI.
It isn't move CJ and you don't get a guy vs moving BI for a guy.
It's moving CJ and keeping a guy in BI. And like you said, moving CJ would be to clear cap space under the luxury tax for Trey money down the road, which we have 2 years to do.
Drastic steps are not needed right now. I get the 1st half of a season isn't the end all, but it would seem premature to blow up this core when we were a 1 seed through 35 games where our 3rd best player in CJ was hurt for most but still playing and our 2nd best player BI missed I believe over half of those games.
I think the best route is to give this core 1 more season to play it out. If we stink and/or both BI and Zion can't collectively play 100 games, then I'm ready to break it up.
Posted on 6/6/23 at 2:55 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
You mean like any team with two stars on max contracts?
so the frick what if we have no cap flexibility. Why do we need that right now? You trying to go out there and sign a big name FA or something?
Making moves right now by getting rid of great players to help with your salary cap in 3 years has to be one of the stupidest moves any team could make. It makes ZERO sense.
I'm not arguing that it must be done now. CJ must be gone after this coming year though or else you lose Herb and later trey
Posted on 6/6/23 at 2:58 pm to TeddyPadillac
My favorite part of this made up scenario is when Zion sees us trade away BI for draft picks and people get in his ear about the Pels being cheap and not wanting to contend. Then as soon as he actually plays 55 games in a season he asks out
I guess that would give us a shitload of cap flexibility, so maybe MM and Shamit would be happy with that after all!
I guess that would give us a shitload of cap flexibility, so maybe MM and Shamit would be happy with that after all!
Posted on 6/6/23 at 3:07 pm to Balsamic_duck
quote:Again, we got 2 seasons.
I'm not arguing that it must be done now. CJ must be gone after this coming year though or else you lose Herb and later trey
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