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re: Source
Posted on 1/1/19 at 9:18 am to Crewz
Posted on 1/1/19 at 9:18 am to Crewz
That's a tax team next year if you keep it all together. Is it good enough for that? Batum is the piece that makes me uncomfortable. If he's not the guy that puts you over the top then he's the guy that makes it all fall apart.
2
Posted on 1/1/19 at 9:22 am to Crewz
The only issue I see is would the team be willing to go that fat into the tax?
With Jrue, AD, Beal and Batum that would put us right at the cap, then bring back Randle and Payton and we would be right up against the tax threshold.. It would get even worse the following year if AD signs the supermax.
Personally I think the best way to get Beal (even though Washington is still insisting they will not trade him), would be to get them out of Mahinmi's deal, which would take a 3rd team.
My home run swing:
Pels get: Beal, Dedmon, Bembry
Wash get: Bazemore, Niko, Clark
ATL get: Mahinmi, Hill, Diallo or Frank, 2019 Pels 1st, 2019 Wiz 1st (lottery protected) that turns to 2 2nds if it doesnt convey
Pels do it to get Beal, we would have a big man to start and still bring Randle off the bench, and Bembry could grow into something special, and we still keep our best 3 point shooter in Moore.
Wiz do it to get under the tax, get 2 good players in Niko and Bazemore (with bird rights), Bazemore is essentially a Beal replacement for them, and more than likely the 1st rounder doesnt convey.
Atlanta does it for potentially 2 additional 1st round picks, they can tank and enter the Zion sweepstakes (even if they dont get 1st overall, 2 additional picks would help them in trading up), they get a young player to potentially develop, and the best part for them, 30 million in expirings next season that they can flip to someone looking to get out of a max deal (Kevin Love anyone??)
Pels roster would be:
Payton/Frazier
Jrue/Moore/Frank
Beal/Miller/Bembry
AD/Randle
Dedmon/Okafor
Realistically next season we could still keep that entire team together, spend full MLE, and still be below the tax threshold
ETA: I would even be willing to throw Washington a protected 2021 1st if that's what it would take to seal the deal
With Jrue, AD, Beal and Batum that would put us right at the cap, then bring back Randle and Payton and we would be right up against the tax threshold.. It would get even worse the following year if AD signs the supermax.
Personally I think the best way to get Beal (even though Washington is still insisting they will not trade him), would be to get them out of Mahinmi's deal, which would take a 3rd team.
My home run swing:
Pels get: Beal, Dedmon, Bembry
Wash get: Bazemore, Niko, Clark
ATL get: Mahinmi, Hill, Diallo or Frank, 2019 Pels 1st, 2019 Wiz 1st (lottery protected) that turns to 2 2nds if it doesnt convey
Pels do it to get Beal, we would have a big man to start and still bring Randle off the bench, and Bembry could grow into something special, and we still keep our best 3 point shooter in Moore.
Wiz do it to get under the tax, get 2 good players in Niko and Bazemore (with bird rights), Bazemore is essentially a Beal replacement for them, and more than likely the 1st rounder doesnt convey.
Atlanta does it for potentially 2 additional 1st round picks, they can tank and enter the Zion sweepstakes (even if they dont get 1st overall, 2 additional picks would help them in trading up), they get a young player to potentially develop, and the best part for them, 30 million in expirings next season that they can flip to someone looking to get out of a max deal (Kevin Love anyone??)
Pels roster would be:
Payton/Frazier
Jrue/Moore/Frank
Beal/Miller/Bembry
AD/Randle
Dedmon/Okafor
Realistically next season we could still keep that entire team together, spend full MLE, and still be below the tax threshold
ETA: I would even be willing to throw Washington a protected 2021 1st if that's what it would take to seal the deal
This post was edited on 1/1/19 at 9:30 am
Posted on 1/1/19 at 9:25 am to TigerinATL
There is no trade that is gonna pop up that comes with no risk and makes it all work long term and short term. You gotta either take a big swing and hope to keep AD (and be willing to pay the tax if you do) or you ride it out, let AD ask out and rebuild/re-tool.
If you wanna try to keep AD, you gotta add a Beal or somebody of that caliber and I don't see anyone else of that caliber remotely available.
I am perfectly fine doing nothing and trading AD this summer. But if they want to try and keep him, this is the kind of swing you have to take. And if he asks out anyway, then you try to win games with Jrue-Beal-Tatum or Simmons
If you wanna try to keep AD, you gotta add a Beal or somebody of that caliber and I don't see anyone else of that caliber remotely available.
I am perfectly fine doing nothing and trading AD this summer. But if they want to try and keep him, this is the kind of swing you have to take. And if he asks out anyway, then you try to win games with Jrue-Beal-Tatum or Simmons
Posted on 1/1/19 at 9:28 am to Crewz
Who plays point? All the moaning about struggles because of lack of a pg, then relegate our starting pg to the bench.
Jrue/Elf
Beal/Clark
Batum/Miller
Randle/Diallo
AD/Okafor
That starting 5 is worth the chance but might only be 2K great. Could always try sliding Jrue to the 3, players he's already guarding, and Batum anchor the bench.
Anything we could do to land Kemba from Charlotte?
Jrue/Elf
Beal/Clark
Batum/Miller
Randle/Diallo
AD/Okafor
That starting 5 is worth the chance but might only be 2K great. Could always try sliding Jrue to the 3, players he's already guarding, and Batum anchor the bench.
Anything we could do to land Kemba from Charlotte?
Posted on 1/1/19 at 9:32 am to Tigerbiscuits
You could start Payton-Beal-Jrue and bring Batum off the bench if you'd like.
The issue wasn't as simple as "We don't have a point guard" it was that we only had one ball handler when Jrue-Moore-Hill were starting. But Beal is a creator and so is Batum. Both much better than Moore or Clark or Frank. You need at least two creators nowadays in the NBA. With Jrue, Beal, and Batum you would have three even though none is a "true PG"
The issue wasn't as simple as "We don't have a point guard" it was that we only had one ball handler when Jrue-Moore-Hill were starting. But Beal is a creator and so is Batum. Both much better than Moore or Clark or Frank. You need at least two creators nowadays in the NBA. With Jrue, Beal, and Batum you would have three even though none is a "true PG"
Posted on 1/1/19 at 9:32 am to Crewz
From a Pels perspective, I would do those moves.
You need to do what you can to obtain another star level talen in Beal. Batum’s contract is bad but he would be a good fit on this team. He is another guy who can handle the ball and share playmaking duties, can shoot from 3 reasonably well, and provides some length and better perimeter defense than what he we have been throwing out there.
Ideally, I would rather keep Niko than Randle but I don’t see how that is possible but Pels would have at least some shooting with Beal and Batum out there. Also ideally, I would try to obtain Jeff Green in that trade to improve depth and throw in one of our garbage players like Clark.
From a Wizards perspective, I don’t see how you get a better offer than that. Two first rd picks for Beal plus two good rotational pieces that they can keep past this season if they want. That is a better haul than what most teams get for trading superstars let alone a one time all star in Beal. That is great deal for them and I can’t imagine them saying no.
From a Charlotte perspective, I think it is a good deal but maybe not the best offer they could get. By trading their first rd pick, I would hope to dump Batum without absorbing any bad contracts back but in this deal they will take on Hill. On the other hand, their pick this year will likely be non- lottery (15-17 range) so they wouldn’t be giving up a high premium pick.
You need to do what you can to obtain another star level talen in Beal. Batum’s contract is bad but he would be a good fit on this team. He is another guy who can handle the ball and share playmaking duties, can shoot from 3 reasonably well, and provides some length and better perimeter defense than what he we have been throwing out there.
Ideally, I would rather keep Niko than Randle but I don’t see how that is possible but Pels would have at least some shooting with Beal and Batum out there. Also ideally, I would try to obtain Jeff Green in that trade to improve depth and throw in one of our garbage players like Clark.
From a Wizards perspective, I don’t see how you get a better offer than that. Two first rd picks for Beal plus two good rotational pieces that they can keep past this season if they want. That is a better haul than what most teams get for trading superstars let alone a one time all star in Beal. That is great deal for them and I can’t imagine them saying no.
From a Charlotte perspective, I think it is a good deal but maybe not the best offer they could get. By trading their first rd pick, I would hope to dump Batum without absorbing any bad contracts back but in this deal they will take on Hill. On the other hand, their pick this year will likely be non- lottery (15-17 range) so they wouldn’t be giving up a high premium pick.
Posted on 1/1/19 at 9:39 am to PelicanFever
They would likely have to give up 2-3 firsts with Batum to not take any bad contracts back. Look at what Denver had to give up for someone to take on 1 year and 12 million of Faired. Batum is owed 5 times that amount over the length of his contract.
Posted on 1/1/19 at 9:57 am to Crewz
quote:
Look at what Denver had to give up for someone to take on 1 year and 12 million of Faired. Batum is owed 5 times that amount over the length of his contract.
That's the problem I have with it I think. Even though we send Solo back, Batum's contract is twice as big and long. I feel the Pels should get more than a 1st out of taking on Batum. I like the idea of Jrue/Beal both for helping convince AD to stay or paired with Tatum or Simmons as a post AD plan B. I feel like Batum's contract could really gum up either situation. If we could get another future asset from Charlotte for Batum you could hopefully pair that with a 1st to turn Batum into something that fits better with whatever core you have then.
quote:
Would you do: Beal, Jeff Green, and Ian Mahinmi for Niko, Moore, Wes Johnson, Solo, and a top 5 protected first?
I would jump on this much faster than the bigger deal with Charlotte. I'd even spend an extra Pels 1st if Mahinmi/Solo needed to be redirected elsewhere.
This post was edited on 1/1/19 at 10:02 am
Posted on 1/1/19 at 10:08 am to TigerinATL
I dont know if I'd give a 1st AND take on Mahinmi, his deal is possibly worse than Hill's..
I would throw a 1st in though if they would do:
Niko,Moore,Clark,Johnson for Beal, Morris, Green..
Also gets Washington out of the tax, the other deal doesn't, and they could attach their 1st along with ours and send out Mahinmi for a JR Smith or Bazemore type
I would throw a 1st in though if they would do:
Niko,Moore,Clark,Johnson for Beal, Morris, Green..
Also gets Washington out of the tax, the other deal doesn't, and they could attach their 1st along with ours and send out Mahinmi for a JR Smith or Bazemore type
This post was edited on 1/1/19 at 10:11 am
Posted on 1/1/19 at 10:09 am to Crewz
Sure Charlotte saves money, but giving up a first and taking on Hill seems unlikely
Posted on 1/1/19 at 10:18 am to PeliPelifactory
Batum has provided Charlotte nothing this season. Hes been really bad.
Posted on 1/1/19 at 11:23 am to Crewz
quote:Very interesting proposal. My initial reaction was "hell no, I would not take on Batum's contract." However, I see your point in that we have to swing for the fences to even hope to keep AD. I agree, I cannot even find another star level player that any team has even talked about moving. This would be an enormous risk given Batum's contract. I also would prefer to keep Niko over Randle if for not other reason, his bird rights. We may be better off trying to use a 2nd Pelicans' 1st rounder in 2021 before committing to Batum. Great suggestion for conversation purposes.
Here's my home run swing:
Wes, Solo, Frazier for Nic Batum and Charlotte's 1st (they save a TON of money and can now bring Walker back without going way into the tax)
Then,
Moore, Niko, our first and Charlotte's 1st for Bradley Beal
The team is thin still - Six starter level players plus Miller, Frank, Clark, Diallo, and Okafor as guys who can be rotation players. I would hope to get one or two more guys after buyout season. But that top 6, if healthy, gives you a nasty little squad. It gives you another star who is signed beyond this year to sell AD on. And Batum brings some leadership and experience. His contract stinks but that pick is necessary to get Beal.
Thoughts?
Posted on 1/1/19 at 12:14 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
That's a tax team next year if you keep it all together. Is it good enough for that? Batum is the piece that makes me uncomfortable. If he's not the guy that puts you over the top then he's the guy that makes it all fall apart.
On the plus side, you do get a SF and leadership to mentor one of the presumed 3 big pieces in Tatum/Simmons/Kuzma if it does go south. Could also elevate Beal’s game as well potentially.
Posted on 1/1/19 at 12:19 pm to Crewz
quote:
Thoughts?
I would absolutely love that deal. Even if AD leaves you’re looking at a core of Jrue/Beal/Tatum/Randle (which I’m just making assumptions on a Boston deal) with Hayward coming off the bench. It also makes the prospect of adding Simmons INFINITELY more appealing as he could play point forward with Holiday and Beal on the wings. That’s a team that could compete for a playoff spot almost immediately with some great young pieces. I just don’t know if even that is enough to pry Beal from the Wiz.
Posted on 1/1/19 at 1:55 pm to ShamelessPel
The Wizards need to realize they are stuck with John Wall and figure out a way to maximize the talent around him. I'm not saying that means move Beal, but teams in the situation they are in typically don't sell low on their best assets and instead do a kick the can down the road move that actually strips the team of talent like dumping Porter.
Posted on 1/1/19 at 2:15 pm to TigerinATL
The problem with the wizards and obtaining Bradley Beal is that I’m sure they would much much much rather keep Beal and move wall. He is probably the one piece that they would prefer not to move. Like you mentioned, it would take them realizing they are in no mans land right now. I just don’t see that self awareness in that front office and I think that you’re right about the type of move that they would make.
They are just so screwed right now with how much they owe wall annually and his very obvious unhappiness playing on that team. There is likely a world where John Wall could come close to living up to his contract, but I don’t think the wizards are a part of any of those scenarios.
They are just so screwed right now with how much they owe wall annually and his very obvious unhappiness playing on that team. There is likely a world where John Wall could come close to living up to his contract, but I don’t think the wizards are a part of any of those scenarios.
This post was edited on 1/1/19 at 2:20 pm
Posted on 1/1/19 at 3:31 pm to ShamelessPel
It sounds like you must take Mahinmi for the Wiz to even start a convo about Beal.
Posted on 1/1/19 at 3:48 pm to ShamelessPel
I'd take Wall and 2 unprotected 1st rounders for Hill and Johnson...
They are pretty much stuck with him though
They are pretty much stuck with him though
Posted on 1/1/19 at 4:23 pm to Soggymoss
What the Pels need to do is wait and win. Winning takes pressure off of the Pels, presumably makes their own assets like Randle more desirable, and should play a role in making a team you want to trade with like Dallas fall out of the playoff race and become sellers.
Have the Bulls soured on Dunn or is Dennis Smith supposed to have a higher ceiling? Just trying to figure out what motivates the Bulls here since during the Butler trade they liked Dunn like Sacramento liked Buddy.
quote:
Michael McNamara @RickJam07344104 4 hours ago
Trade I would personally be working on:
Mavs get: Randle, Solo, Kris Dunn, Pels 1st
Bulls get: Dennis Smith, Jr, Wes Johnson
Pels get: Harrison Barnes, Justin Holiday
Have the Bulls soured on Dunn or is Dennis Smith supposed to have a higher ceiling? Just trying to figure out what motivates the Bulls here since during the Butler trade they liked Dunn like Sacramento liked Buddy.
This post was edited on 1/1/19 at 4:25 pm
Posted on 1/1/19 at 4:31 pm to TigerinATL
Smith is undoubtedly the better prospect.
As for waiting and winning -- doesn't your pick become less enticing the more you win?
The more I look at it -- if Dell stays firm and doesn't move the pick unless its for a stud, only one of 3 things will happen:
1. Beal. He is the only guy who fits the star profile that might be moved.
2. A 'meh' trade that moves no long term needles but helps a little short term.
Think something like Wes Johnson and a couple expirings for MKG. Or Hill and an expiring for Allen Crabbe.
3. Nothing.
I just don't see a Bazemore or Porter or even Barnes type addition because you'd have to give up a pick to get those guys and they aren't a star. But they are just good enough to warrant more than what the Pels have to give that doesn't include a pick, Would have been great id Diallo would have panned out. If he was a solid prospect, you might have been able to include him in a deal to get a solid wing.
As for waiting and winning -- doesn't your pick become less enticing the more you win?
The more I look at it -- if Dell stays firm and doesn't move the pick unless its for a stud, only one of 3 things will happen:
1. Beal. He is the only guy who fits the star profile that might be moved.
2. A 'meh' trade that moves no long term needles but helps a little short term.
Think something like Wes Johnson and a couple expirings for MKG. Or Hill and an expiring for Allen Crabbe.
3. Nothing.
I just don't see a Bazemore or Porter or even Barnes type addition because you'd have to give up a pick to get those guys and they aren't a star. But they are just good enough to warrant more than what the Pels have to give that doesn't include a pick, Would have been great id Diallo would have panned out. If he was a solid prospect, you might have been able to include him in a deal to get a solid wing.
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