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Posted on 6/3/19 at 1:31 pm to Epic Cajun
quote:
would say he has some intangible value as a mentor to young players, but that probably doesn't outweigh the value that you could get in return if you were to trade him.
There are much cheaper “culture” building options
2 years from now when he’s 31 & not quite the same player, people are going to want to trade him and his value won’t quite be the same. And there will be nothing to show for it.
Posted on 6/3/19 at 1:44 pm to Lester Earl
Two years from now he could decline his player option and be a FA. So we would literally get nothing.
Posted on 6/3/19 at 1:45 pm to brmark70816
They will both make nearly twice as much per year on their next contract(kawhi just this off season) than jrue will.
Giannis is on a rookie scale anyway
Giannis is on a rookie scale anyway
Posted on 6/3/19 at 1:49 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
There are much cheaper “culture” building options
Some people think Smart is too redundant to Jrue and would route him to a 3rd team. Maybe Smart is the cheap culture builder you keep that let’s you trade Jrue. I know that will get down votes but you’re right that his value won’t be higher and the Pels goal should be looking to maximize the roster 4+ years from now.
I think about half the ways the AD trade can go probably point to trading Jrue.
Posted on 6/3/19 at 1:50 pm to Lester Earl
I tend to agree.
But it really depends on what the deal for AD looks like,
If it involves Tatum, than Jrue makes some decent sense keeping around. As that is a team looking to push the playoffs next season and continue to grow as Zion does.
If we go for a haul like the Clippers or Knicks, you probably want to move Jrue. Even just for Jrue's sake. Since Jrue will be 29 next season and will be at the tail end of any realistic time horizon. Get your sweat equity(or whatever he calls it) from shorter-term free agency options that don't sacrifice positive asset value ala Reddick in Philly.
But it really depends on what the deal for AD looks like,
If it involves Tatum, than Jrue makes some decent sense keeping around. As that is a team looking to push the playoffs next season and continue to grow as Zion does.
If we go for a haul like the Clippers or Knicks, you probably want to move Jrue. Even just for Jrue's sake. Since Jrue will be 29 next season and will be at the tail end of any realistic time horizon. Get your sweat equity(or whatever he calls it) from shorter-term free agency options that don't sacrifice positive asset value ala Reddick in Philly.
This post was edited on 6/3/19 at 1:53 pm
Posted on 6/3/19 at 1:57 pm to brmark70816
quote:
Pretty close. I get that contracts are structured a certain way. But we still gave him the max. We couldn't have given him anymore.
The max would have been $30M/yr, not the $25M/yr we gave him. Max for 7-9 year experience is $30M or 30% of the salary cap, whichever is greater.
I'm pretty sure i remember them not wanting to give him more than what AD was going to start making with his new contract. Jrue was going to make more for a year, then about the same this past year, then AD would make more going forward.
Posted on 6/3/19 at 1:59 pm to Epic Cajun
A Jrue trade is dependent on what the AD trade is.
If Davis traded for something like SGA, Harrell, Galo, etc. You 100% keep Jrue. If Davis traded for Tatum + whatever ( choose fromSmart, Brown, Horford, Hayward), you keep Jrue. If Davis traded to the Knicks the return is likely going to be nothing but young talent which would then change this teams timeline. They go from being competitive/somewhat rebuilding, to a full on rebuild. In that case I want a high lottery pick and a young prospect. If it is Phoenix or Chicago I want their pick ( pick 6 or 7 + a player at minimum). Jrue himself is worth the 3rd pick in this draft.
If Davis traded for something like SGA, Harrell, Galo, etc. You 100% keep Jrue. If Davis traded for Tatum + whatever ( choose fromSmart, Brown, Horford, Hayward), you keep Jrue. If Davis traded to the Knicks the return is likely going to be nothing but young talent which would then change this teams timeline. They go from being competitive/somewhat rebuilding, to a full on rebuild. In that case I want a high lottery pick and a young prospect. If it is Phoenix or Chicago I want their pick ( pick 6 or 7 + a player at minimum). Jrue himself is worth the 3rd pick in this draft.
Posted on 6/3/19 at 2:01 pm to brmark70816
I’m sure you think Kemba Walker is good. Why can’t he get Charlotte in the playoffs? He even gets to play in the Eastern Conference.
Posted on 6/3/19 at 2:02 pm to Jon1798
quote:
I feel some of the similar packages you see thrown around for Beal should be mentioned for Jrue.
Don't think so.
Holiday is very good. His play this past season rightly earned him recognition and mention as a potential All-NBA guard. He's among the 10-12 best guards in the league.
But he doesn't have the gear to be the primary creator of an offense. Beal does and he is 3 years younger. Paul George, who is like a souped up version of Holiday, netted Oladipo and Sabonis. That deal worked out well for Indiana, but was mocked far and wide when it happened.
That said, I don't think the Pels need to move him this summer unless he asks out (seems very unlikely) or they are bowled over by an offer (also unlikely, especially if the offer is centered on more 2019 draft picks). They can lean on him some this season, see where things are at the deadline (he would be a great "final piece" for a deep playoff team) or next summer and still find something useful.
Posted on 6/3/19 at 2:03 pm to CocoLoco
I don't want to trade Jrue period. I know we could probably get a pretty sweet deal on him right now, but i want a young core, and i want some good veterans that can show the young pups how to play the game.
The Celtcs overpaid Al Horford for that reason, and will overpay him again if they keep their young core.
You can't just have a team full of rookies. you've got to have some veterans who can show the young guys how to play, practice and simply life off the court as a new found millionaire. Jrue's values as a basketball player and a person in general are invaluable to what we want to build here.
The Celtcs overpaid Al Horford for that reason, and will overpay him again if they keep their young core.
You can't just have a team full of rookies. you've got to have some veterans who can show the young guys how to play, practice and simply life off the court as a new found millionaire. Jrue's values as a basketball player and a person in general are invaluable to what we want to build here.
Posted on 6/3/19 at 2:03 pm to CocoLoco
Pretty much where I'm at
Its all not a bad idea to keep until the deadline and get a team wanting to make a push to pay up.
Its all not a bad idea to keep until the deadline and get a team wanting to make a push to pay up.
Posted on 6/3/19 at 2:04 pm to Jon1798
Nothing. If AD had half the heart as Jrue, we would be in the conference title game.
Posted on 6/3/19 at 2:09 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
the Pels goal should be looking to maximize the roster 4+ years from now.
Sure. But that doesn't mean you sell everything that isn't bolted to the floor right now.
There needs to be a larger context. Most of the talk in this thread is about trading Holiday for more picks. How do we know those picks will help maximize the roster 4+ years from now in a way that a deal a year from now won't or, heaven forbid, they just let him play out his contract?
We still aren't sure what exactly Zion will look like in the NBA. Why not provide him some structure with an established guy like Holiday while we learn more about him and his game?
The Pels are an organization grasping for legitimacy. They've had a great summer on that front. But treating players, particularly guys who seem to be buying into the franchise, like assets is not a great look.
Posted on 6/3/19 at 2:13 pm to corndeaux
These offers mentioned for Beal are not being accepted. I agree Beal is younger(though strongly disagree he can run an offense and Jrue can not based on their histories). My high level point was that these offers that weren’t good enough for Beal should be close for a guy like Jrue.
Posted on 6/3/19 at 2:23 pm to corndeaux
quote:
Sure. But that doesn't mean you sell everything that isn't bolted to the floor right now.
I agree, and I don't think you sell on Jrue strictly if you go younger. I think Jrue would fit well with Ja if they manage to get him and wouldn't consider that core "too young" to keep Jrue. You'd want him leading the way so Ja/Zion can hit the ground running instead of having to carry the load.
I also think the market for Jrue would be limited. I've mentioned a Clippers package most of the time I've talked Jrue trade because I believe Ballmer wants to accelerate his timeline and would value Jrue more than SGA + stuff. You'd need teams like that, and depending on what you got back in the AD trade, some of the pieces Jrue could return might be redundant.
Either way they probably shouldn't be in a hurry. See how the season goes and then decide what pieces you want to flip when they have more value at the deadline.
Posted on 6/3/19 at 2:29 pm to corndeaux
quote:
But treating players, particularly guys who seem to be buying into the franchise, like assets is not a great look.
And making moves with emotion attached to it gets you no where. They have to be treated like assets, especially when you send the message that you are starting fresh.
I swear some of you act like Jrue is 23 & just had this sudden breakout & has this long term upward trajectory. He starts the season as a 29 year old.
Look at Kyle Lowry 3 years ago & look at him now and what age does to you. Jrue’s window with his play right now will be short lived.
I’m not saying dump him for anything. But to act like he is untouchable is crazy,
Posted on 6/3/19 at 2:33 pm to TigerinATL
And griffin was pretty adamant about jrue being a foundation stone to the culture they're building. I dont see DG shipping him off immediately like that in any scenario but he probably due some diligence
Posted on 6/3/19 at 2:42 pm to Lester Earl
My main question is “What would we get for him?”
Keep in mind we aren’t particularly happy with the current offers in some quarters for AD, who is a damn sign bigger prize.
Most of the offers for Jrue will likely amount to salary relief and some shitty picks to go with the ones we are likely getting in an AD trade.
Keep in mind we aren’t particularly happy with the current offers in some quarters for AD, who is a damn sign bigger prize.
Most of the offers for Jrue will likely amount to salary relief and some shitty picks to go with the ones we are likely getting in an AD trade.
Posted on 6/3/19 at 3:03 pm to Jon1798
Jrue isn’t an asset I move unless Jrue wants to be moved.
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