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Message
re: ScoopB: All of the Brandon Ingram offers are “crap”
Posted on 7/12/24 at 8:53 am to Galactic Inquisitor
Posted on 7/12/24 at 8:53 am to Galactic Inquisitor
quote:
This is extremely stupid. BI is still one of the 3 best players on this roster. Losing one of your best players is not addition by subtraction.
Ask the sixers when they lost Harden. Its not about collecting the best players, its about making the best team. Those two don’t always go hand in hand.
1
Posted on 7/12/24 at 9:05 am to Pels_Yaz
Making the best team for us would be adding a pg and allowing ingram to play more off ball. He acknowledged that himself.
And ingram, in his 5 years here, led us to the playoffs without Zion, got an All Star nod when he did have a real pg (!!!), and got us into another playoff series even though he was banged up.
So yes, it is about making the best team, and adding a pg and moving ingram into an off ball role might be a plan b that's better than plan a.
It's also something this board really needs to understand that as of right now is most likely. I don't think ingram is getting traded anymore, at least not until the trade deadline.
And ingram, in his 5 years here, led us to the playoffs without Zion, got an All Star nod when he did have a real pg (!!!), and got us into another playoff series even though he was banged up.
So yes, it is about making the best team, and adding a pg and moving ingram into an off ball role might be a plan b that's better than plan a.
It's also something this board really needs to understand that as of right now is most likely. I don't think ingram is getting traded anymore, at least not until the trade deadline.
Posted on 7/12/24 at 9:11 am to whatiknowsofar
quote:
Making the best team for us would be adding a pg and allowing ingram to play more off ball. He acknowledged that himself.
This would be fine if we actually had a starting center on the roster. The trade isn’t BI out, and nothing in. You would be bringing in a starting level center to replace him. If we’re not trading picks for a center like Kessler we have to move on from BI or CJ in order to bring a center in.
On Christian Clark’s pod he seems to still think the target is JA.
Posted on 7/12/24 at 9:17 am to whatiknowsofar
quote:
Making the best team for us would be adding a pg and allowing ingram to play more off ball. He acknowledged that himself. And ingram, in his 5 years here, led us to the playoffs without Zion, got an All Star nod when he did have a real pg (!!!), and got us into another playoff series even though he was banged up. So yes, it is about making the best team, and adding a pg and moving ingram into an off ball role might be a plan b that's better than plan a. It's also something this board really needs to understand that as of right now is most likely. I don't think ingram is getting traded anymore, at least not until the trade deadline.
Dude I disagree. The deadline is August 6th. If BI agrees to an extension, then you’re right he won’t be traded till deadline BUT if he doesn’t I don’t think Griff will let him play out the season without a deal. And right now both sides aren’t close.
And I’m sorry I’m not buying the whole BI needs a PG thing. And you usually see right through this. I’m kind of surprised you’re advocating and buying into this point guard will make BI better stuff. Are you ok bringing CJ and Trey off the bench and having no nba starter center as well? You’re ok limiting Trey even more and maybe him not resigning? Maybe even trading CJ? There are so many repercussions to this plan B.
Posted on 7/12/24 at 9:19 am to Epic Cajun
quote:
This would be fine if we actually had a starting center on the roster. The trade isn’t BI out, and nothing in. You would be bringing in a starting level center to replace him. If we’re not trading picks for a center like Kessler we have to move on from BI or CJ in order to bring a center in.
You don't trade a player of BI's caliber just b/c the GM is a dumbass and needs to fill out the roster and stay under the tax. That's a fireable offense, and a good way to lose the lockerroom b/c it shows you care more about making money than winning.
We don't NEED an all-star level center. We simply need a competent defensive big. We shoudn't be trading BI and saving money just so we can find a starting center. That's beyond stupid.
If the trade doesn't make us better on the court right now, then it's a stupid trade to make right now. We aren't some young team waiting to get better and gathering assets. We have assets, we have plenty of good players, and it's time to start winning now.
Posted on 7/12/24 at 9:24 am to Pels_Yaz
quote:
Are you ok bringing CJ and Trey off the bench
Imagine a pels team so good that cj and Trey have to come off the bench.
quote:
and having no nba starter center as well
It's the only thing that will be fixed by the time the season starts. We'll get a starting level center via trade.
quote:
buying into this point guard will make BI better stuff
Because a real pg resulted in ingrams best season here.
quote:
You’re ok limiting Trey even more and maybe him not resigning?
We'll sign and trade Trey for a kings ransom if this all works. I'd hate to lose him, but I'm not going to pretend that he's a better player than ingram today or even next year.
quote:
Maybe even trading CJ? There are so many repercussions to this plan B.
Most of the scenarios you're projecting are things we can technically kick the can down the road on. CJ is very valuable at the Feb trade deadline. Even moreso next offseason as an expiring.
So yes, I think we need a starting center. And CJ and Trey coming off the bench is not the end of the world. Run the offense through Zion with Ingram getting easy catch and shoot 3s and 12 footers. Herb and Murray terrorizing guards, then sub in Trey and CJ for the center and Ingram and bombs the frick away with Z.
Posted on 7/12/24 at 9:55 am to whatiknowsofar
Everyone looking for Trey to take BI's spot are doing so simply b/c they are both tall. They don't provide the same type of production on the court.
Production wise, Trey needs to take CJ's spot.
I know it would suck to have Trey come off the bench for so long, but if he's making a shite ton of money and playing 30+ mpg and closing games, does he really care that much? I mean i'm sure he does, but woudl you really complain about winning and making a lot money, if that's what happens b/c you come off the bench?
Our path to a championship is Murray/Herb/BI/Trey/Zion lineup. If that lineup can't work, then one of those guys probably doesn't need to be here, and i'm fine if that guy is BI that needs to go. I think Trey/BI/Zion are big enough and tall enough to handle defending bigger guys (not Jokic/Embiid/etc), and Herb/Murray are long enough to help rebound as well.
I don't think there is a center that maximizes Zion's skillset. I think Zion has to be the center on a championship team. Doesn't mean we dont need a big body 5 on the roster, and starting, but the path to competing for a championship is up to Zion being able to defend the 5 position, and he has the weight and foot speed to keep any big from backing him down.
are we a better team with Zion/Bam/MLE type wing, or with Zion/MLE type 5/all-star level wing?
Who is the perfect 5 to play with Zion? I dont' think the answer is Jarrett Allen. Are you willing to pay max money to the perfect 5 to play with him? Are you positive that perfect 5 can be on the court with 30 seconds left in a playoff game?
Production wise, Trey needs to take CJ's spot.
I know it would suck to have Trey come off the bench for so long, but if he's making a shite ton of money and playing 30+ mpg and closing games, does he really care that much? I mean i'm sure he does, but woudl you really complain about winning and making a lot money, if that's what happens b/c you come off the bench?
Our path to a championship is Murray/Herb/BI/Trey/Zion lineup. If that lineup can't work, then one of those guys probably doesn't need to be here, and i'm fine if that guy is BI that needs to go. I think Trey/BI/Zion are big enough and tall enough to handle defending bigger guys (not Jokic/Embiid/etc), and Herb/Murray are long enough to help rebound as well.
I don't think there is a center that maximizes Zion's skillset. I think Zion has to be the center on a championship team. Doesn't mean we dont need a big body 5 on the roster, and starting, but the path to competing for a championship is up to Zion being able to defend the 5 position, and he has the weight and foot speed to keep any big from backing him down.
are we a better team with Zion/Bam/MLE type wing, or with Zion/MLE type 5/all-star level wing?
Who is the perfect 5 to play with Zion? I dont' think the answer is Jarrett Allen. Are you willing to pay max money to the perfect 5 to play with him? Are you positive that perfect 5 can be on the court with 30 seconds left in a playoff game?
Posted on 7/12/24 at 10:05 am to whatiknowsofar
quote:
Making the best team for us would be adding a pg and allowing ingram to play more off ball. He acknowledged that himself.
And ingram, in his 5 years here, led us to the playoffs without Zion, got an All Star nod when he did have a real pg (!!!), and got us into another playoff series even though he was banged up.
So not having a PG is why he plays pathetic defense and refuses to move around off ball?
Posted on 7/12/24 at 10:07 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Who is the perfect 5 to play with Zion?
There really isn't a perfect center to play with Zion. Zion is a square peg in a league of round holes. It will always be a struggle to build a balanced roster around him.
Posted on 7/12/24 at 10:14 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Everyone looking for Trey to take BI's spot are doing so simply b/c they are both tall. They don't provide the same type of production on the court.
Production wise, Trey needs to take CJ's spot
Everyone has been wanting BI to play like Trey in the starting lineup...
So essentially (2) off ball CJs. Except Trey is an actual SF so its better than (2) CJ's.
Y'all want to start Herb because you don't trust Trey/ CJ/ Murray 2 way game but also have full belief Herb will be a 40% 3pt shooter this year...
Its weird. You can't doubt those guys defense/ abilities but also have full condifence Herb will be our best 2 way player.
As much as I love Herb it seems like we are starting to overvalue his role. Not his abilities or game but simply his role. He is not our #1 player and he is not our 1st, 2nd, or 3rd scoring option.
The point isn't to "make Herb our best player" its to keep evolving until he's just another piece of the puzzle.
Just as much as Trey is a 3pt shooter with upside, Herb is a defensive player with upside.
Y'all act like its impossible for Herb to shoot only 35% from 3 while Trey shoots > 40% and takes a step forward on defense.
Then what? "Herb has to start because of defense" argument again? Regardless of offensive #'s?
We just need to acknowledge that either could end up the starter or both depending on what happens.
Posted on 7/12/24 at 10:14 am to Galactic Inquisitor
quote:
There really isn't a perfect center to play with Zion
Yes there is. Embiid just isn't available.
Posted on 7/12/24 at 10:17 am to Balsamic_duck
quote:
not having a PG is why he plays pathetic defense
Myth. Ingram was much better last year on defense.
quote:
and refuses to move around off ball?
Also a myth. We ran a lot of great off ball screens to free ingram up for easy ft middies.
We simply didn't run a lot of that last year because we needed him to initiate the offense a lot more because again, we didn't have a pg when CJ was off the court, oh and also because CJ isn't really a pg
Posted on 7/12/24 at 10:30 am to shel311
quote:
We're gonna frick and around and piss off Trey and frick that situation up for the dude we know doesn't fit what we're trying to do.
THIS!!!
so many predictable responses and retorts ITT. you guys are the definition of insanity. IT DOESNT WORK!!!! HE DOESNT WORK ON THIS TEAM!!!
Posted on 7/12/24 at 10:30 am to whatiknowsofar
quote:
We simply didn't run a lot of that last year because we needed him to initiate the offense a lot more because again, we didn't have a pg when CJ was off the court, oh and also because CJ isn't really a pg
So many opinions and emotions stemming from last years team.
You are also trying to make a point that many may not be able to process... The only "PG" we've had in the last 10 years was Jrue who isn't a true PG lol.
We legit haven't had a true PG since Vasquez/ Jarrett Jack.
Not many of our fans can even process how our team could function with a real PG.
Legit:
Baron Davis
CP3
Pargo
Darren Collinson
Jarret Jack
Gervais Vasquez
Rondo
Jrue
CJ
So yeah its understandable that people don't know what a modern PG does if they just watch Pels.
This post was edited on 7/12/24 at 10:35 am
Posted on 7/12/24 at 10:32 am to Galactic Inquisitor
quote:
Zion is a square peg in a league of round holes. It will always be a struggle to build a balanced roster around him.
Its also what makes him unique and difficult to defend. Zion has shown to be successful around several centers so not even sure it is really a struggle as you say.
Posted on 7/12/24 at 10:35 am to Dantheman504
quote:
The only "PG" we've had in the last 10 years was Jrue who isn't a true PG lol. We legit haven't had a true PG since Vasquez/ Jarrett Jack. Not many of our fans can even process how our team could function with a real PG.
Jrue has a higher career assists avg than Dejounte. Dejounte also had several 40 plus scoring games too. I love Dejounte but he’s not this Chris Paul like point guard. And in all honesty in todays nba you dont need one.
Posted on 7/12/24 at 10:42 am to whatiknowsofar
quote:
Imagine a pels team so good that cj and Trey have to come off the bench.
In theory this sounds great but the other day you were stating CJ would nevet come off the bench. I’m really not sure how mentally happy these two will be playing bench roles.
quote:
It's the only thing that will be fixed by the time the season starts. We'll get a starting level center via trade.
But will we overpay to do it?
quote:
Because a real pg resulted in ingrams best season here.
The team is vastly different. More mouths to feed- CJ, Trey, Zion and even Hawkins. Dejounte is a huge scoring threat himself- had couple 40 game points himself. He from a scoring perspective is more gifted than Lonzo and/or Jrue. Even in that season for BI- that team still wasn’t very successful.
quote:
We'll sign and trade Trey for a kings ransom if this all works. I'd hate to lose him, but I'm not going to pretend that he's a better player than ingram today or even next year.
No but hes a better fit. And has potential to be better. You dont just get rid of those guys.
quote:
And CJ and Trey coming off the bench is not the end of the world.
Again asking both those guys to cut their minutes and come off the bench is not an easy ask. Again great in theory but these are proud players.
Posted on 7/12/24 at 10:44 am to Galactic Inquisitor
quote:
This is extremely stupid. BI is still one of the 3 best players on this roster. Losing one of your best players is not addition by subtraction.
False.
Zion
Murray
Herb
BI
Posted on 7/12/24 at 10:45 am to whatiknowsofar
quote:
Also a myth. We ran a lot of great off ball screens to free ingram up for easy ft middies.
The previous poster is a bit extreme that he refuses to move off the ball. I think he can but hes not very good at it. Part of BI’s whole issue is hes not quick with anything he does-including moving off ball- its why with good defenders they can stay with him. He can improve on this but he has to buy into this role.
Posted on 7/12/24 at 10:49 am to Dantheman504
quote:
Everyone has been wanting BI to play like Trey in the starting lineup...
That makes zero sense. They aren't the same type of player.
BI isn't a role player like Trey is.
You can argue that our staring lineup would be better with a player like Trey over BI, but saying you want BI to play like Trey is silly.
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