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re: Primary Pelicans starting lineup has one of the worst Net Ratings in league
Posted on 2/16/24 at 11:26 am to Chalkywhite84
Posted on 2/16/24 at 11:26 am to Chalkywhite84
quote:Yes
Let's say that bi gets traded for bridges and a couple other things.
Does that make the pels that much better?
Don't just factor that Bridges is the better player, but also the financial flexibility of a Bridges at $23 mil vs a BI at $50mil or whatever the number will be.
I just fail to see how we should not want the better player at $23mil compared to the lesser player at nearly $50mil
quote:I don't subscribe to the idea that we should only ever make a trade if that trade makes us in instant contender. If the trade makes you better AND provides more financial flexibility, you make that trade if possible.
Are they an instant contender? I don't really believe that.
This post was edited on 2/16/24 at 11:35 am
Posted on 2/16/24 at 11:59 am to shel311
quote:
Yes
Don't just factor that Bridges is the better player, but also the financial flexibility of a Bridges at $23 mil vs a BI at $50mil or whatever the number will be.
I just fail to see how we should not want the better player at $23mil compared to the lesser player at nearly $50mil
We would be so much better. Bridges knows how to play within an offense and can play both on ball and off ball. I would throw in a lot of picks if we could also get Claxton
A lineup of CJ Herb Mikal Zion Claxton would take this team to the next level.
Right now we have a starting lineup that has a lot of really good players but it's less than the sum of it's parts because the players don't fit at all.
Posted on 2/16/24 at 12:24 pm to shel311
quote:
Don't just factor that Bridges is the better player, but also the financial flexibility of a Bridges at $23 mil vs a BI at $50mil or whatever the number will be.
I still don't think a prime bridges (27) vs a prime ingram (26) is better. he's proven he can take the offensive game up a notch to nearly match ingram; however his defense has sorely taken a huge hit the past 2 years when he's asked to do more.
Now the financial ramifications I agree with (for the next 2 years), but if you're making that trade - the window is 2 years still because his next paycheck is going to also be ridiculously expensive.
Ingram is the superior player, comparison alone. Now agreed Ingram at a max vs bridges and the answer is bridges.
But the trade doesn't make us a contender, even with claxton. He's a B tier star as well.
Posted on 2/16/24 at 12:35 pm to htran90
quote:If he were in New Orleans, he would be asked to do less than Brooklyn, and thus could get back to more of his DPOY form.
he's proven he can take the offensive game up a notch to nearly match ingram; however his defense has sorely taken a huge hit the past 2 years when he's asked to do more.
On the scoring topic, Brandon Ingram has played 8 seasons, 464 games, and he has 7 games of 40 points or more.
Mikal Bridges, in just the last calendar year, has 6 games of 40 points or more.
quote:Most NBA windows are very small, so I'd take that 2 year window and give it a go.
Now the financial ramifications I agree with (for the next 2 years), but if you're making that trade - the window is 2 years still because his next paycheck is going to also be ridiculously expensive.
quote:I just don't think he is. The thing that BI is best at, Mikal is better at it than BI, and that's scoring. BI definitely has passing/facilitating without question. But I think the defense of Bridges tops that pretty easily, especially since neither will be your #1 option on an offense.
Ingram is the superior player, comparison alone
Posted on 2/16/24 at 1:41 pm to htran90
quote:
Ingram is the superior player, comparison alone.
Ingram may be the more talented player in a vacuum, but players don't play in a vacuum and fit/role plays a huge part in synergy. The starting lineup is not very synergistic at all. We have talent, but the pieces don't fit. The synergistic way to build the team around Zion would be to surround him with players who are valuable off of the ball, and who play defense on the other side of it.
Something like this would be such a better fit for building around Zion:
Rim protecting center
Zion
Herb
Bridges
CJ
Nance
Trey
Dyson
Hawk
Jose
Posted on 2/16/24 at 4:12 pm to Epic Cajun
Ingram is a good player. I don't think he's a max contract player, primarily because he doesn't shoot 3-pointers at volume and he's not a plus defender. He could mitigate both of things, and has at times, but I don't think the Pels can challenge for a title if Brandon Ingram, a one-time All Star, is the highest paid guy on the roster who takes the most shots.
I also think the Pels starting line up would benefit a lot from clarity of purpose. If you swap out Brandon for a plus defender who shoots 8-10 3-pointers a game for half the money, Zion's role as primary attacker comes into focus. Now, that makes you reliant on Zion which is another kind of risk, but I do think it's the best chance Pels have to make a run at the title. Zion has to become Giannis-esque. If he can't, he can't. But that's your best path forward.
I also think the Pels starting line up would benefit a lot from clarity of purpose. If you swap out Brandon for a plus defender who shoots 8-10 3-pointers a game for half the money, Zion's role as primary attacker comes into focus. Now, that makes you reliant on Zion which is another kind of risk, but I do think it's the best chance Pels have to make a run at the title. Zion has to become Giannis-esque. If he can't, he can't. But that's your best path forward.
Posted on 2/16/24 at 9:06 pm to New City Champ
Absolutely agree 100%
Posted on 2/16/24 at 10:29 pm to New City Champ
quote:Best summation possible, could not have been recapped any better
If you swap out Brandon for a plus defender who shoots 8-10 3-pointers a game for half the money, Zion's role as primary attacker comes into focus. Now, that makes you reliant on Zion which is another kind of risk, but I do think it's the best chance Pels have to make a run at the title. Zion has to become Giannis-esque. If he can't, he can't. But that's your best path forward.
Posted on 2/16/24 at 11:09 pm to shel311
We do have a small sample size of it working and that wasn’t even with a Bridges level second banana.
Posted on 2/18/24 at 10:18 am to shel311
quote:
But ultimately, breaking up Zion/BI is the way to go...more specifically moving BI. It's all just so obvious at this point IMO.
I love seeing fans on Twitter sky scream that “true fans” aren’t listening to the noise that BI and Zion don’t work together, pointing at the records against Western Conference playoff teams.
But still disregarding their +~ together. BI has reached his ceiling as a player. He’s a really good player but he’s too inconsistent, plays uninspired D and has a shitty shot profile. Z hasn’t even come close to his potential and is essentially a little bit better than BI with similar issues but has the higher ceiling
Posted on 2/18/24 at 10:23 am to shel311
quote:
Here's the thing, I agree here with everything you said here, I don't know either if you can build around Zion, but... I do know, and I'd hope everyone does too, that you absolutely cannot build a consistent winner with BI as your best player. That's why the play is to move BI.
Absolutely. No one is disagreeing here that Z is completely unreliable and is just as likely to tank our chances of winning a title as he is at leading us to one. But he’s just better and has the higher ceiling. It was clear last year and it’s starting to get clearer this year yet again as he’s getting in better shape.
Posted on 2/18/24 at 11:09 am to WicKed WayZ
quote:
Christian Clark @cclark_13
How the West's top six teams have played this season with their best two players on the court LINK
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I get how the coaches and front office feels it COULD work if their 2 star players would just get their heads screwed on right. But even if they both did what they should do, you have Point Zion and BI playing off ball. Is BI off ball really that much different of a player than Trey? Is off ball BI even as good as Trey in that role? And should we pay $50 million for that?
I think it's unlikely you get an All Star caliber player back for BI, except for maybe KAT, who I have as many reservations about as with BI, but it's really hard to justify going forward with him even if things "work out".
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