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re: Pelicans Trade Ideas...as SELLERS
Posted on 1/20/19 at 7:57 pm to ThanosIsADemocrat
Posted on 1/20/19 at 7:57 pm to ThanosIsADemocrat
Some actual stats for you --
Holidays' 3pt percentage is higher when AD isn't on the court. As is his FG% in the restricted area. As are his points per minute.
He simply is much more aggressive, and surprising to me is that his TO% actually goes down too.
Holidays' 3pt percentage is higher when AD isn't on the court. As is his FG% in the restricted area. As are his points per minute.
He simply is much more aggressive, and surprising to me is that his TO% actually goes down too.
1
Posted on 1/20/19 at 8:07 pm to Crewz
quote:
a lot of cap room this summer would do nothing for the franchise. No impact players would come here, especially if AD wasn't committed long term.
Take lumps this year and next, horde assets while also having good, young players so you aren't the Cavs or Knicks from this year,
The Pelicans have a better chance of getting Thompson and Irving to take pay cuts to join this circus than they do of ever turning Melton, Bender, or Monk into plus players on a rookie contract.
And you ain't getting Garnett or Pierce prices when selling Niko, Randle, or Moore. With nearly every big market team desperate to be a player in one of the best high end FA classes in forever, I'd take 2019 cap space as a better bet for hoarding assets.
Posted on 1/20/19 at 8:08 pm to mhasen1
My trades basically got the Pels 2nd round picks or players equivalent to that for those guys The only times they got more was when they were also taking back bad salary
Posted on 1/20/19 at 8:16 pm to Crewz
quote:
You wouldn't get value back in that way. But you can get different value.
Having more touches for other players provides value. Having more cap flexibility has value. Losing more games in the immediate could have value.
That would be the argument. Its not player for player value. Its opportunity cost related value.
Yes, but conversely there is value to grooming a winning culture and playing winning basketball. There’s also the fact that if Tatum is who we expect him to be, you don’t want him looking for the first bus out of town. If Tatum is happy with jacking up 22 shots, scoring 28 points, and losing, he’s certainly not who I’d hoped he’d be.
I think your opportunity cost argument is nullified by the positives argument. Therefore, we are left with the value of what you get back.
Posted on 1/20/19 at 8:17 pm to Crewz
I’m just guessing here, but that’s probably a little inflated against 2nd units.also, who’s he with when AD is off? Niko?Julius? Etc...Davis has made everyone on this team better,especially Jrue,Niko and Boogie(who played his best basketball ever here).
However, what can be inferred is that the ballhandler (Jrue) plays better when there are less talented players with him therefore making his decision process easier, which is kind of theme, Jrue as the top dog won’t be getting the most out of him. He likes less offensive responsibility.
However, what can be inferred is that the ballhandler (Jrue) plays better when there are less talented players with him therefore making his decision process easier, which is kind of theme, Jrue as the top dog won’t be getting the most out of him. He likes less offensive responsibility.
Posted on 1/20/19 at 8:18 pm to ShamelessPel
Again, it is all dependent on the structure, culture, and leadership of the organization.
Which is why that is still my #1 focus this summer. Even above the AD trade
Which is why that is still my #1 focus this summer. Even above the AD trade
Posted on 1/20/19 at 8:49 pm to Crewz
Honestly if we become “sellers” I want to hold on to Niko. I think he would be a solid contributor post AD era. Say we trade AD to Boston for Hayward, Tatum, and Theis he would be the automatic starter at the 4 would thrive with those guys around him IMO.
Go out and get a rim protector and you have yourself a competitive squad.
Go out and get a rim protector and you have yourself a competitive squad.
Posted on 1/20/19 at 8:54 pm to BallHawk
I worry about Niko defensively in a non-AD era.
Even in that Portland series, he was only able to be that aggressive because AD was on the back line
And offensively, he is fine but he's not as good of a shooter as people seem to think.
I'd rather get a bunch of guys who can defend the 3 and slide to the small ball 4 at the end of games. And I wouldn't want Niko as my 5 in those situations
Even in that Portland series, he was only able to be that aggressive because AD was on the back line
And offensively, he is fine but he's not as good of a shooter as people seem to think.
I'd rather get a bunch of guys who can defend the 3 and slide to the small ball 4 at the end of games. And I wouldn't want Niko as my 5 in those situations
Posted on 1/20/19 at 9:14 pm to Crewz
A 90 million dollar payroll can put you in a position to pick up several picks. (It also has a significant difference on the bottom line.)
But the most important argument is that the 90 million dollar payroll can be option C.
Option A: Davis/Lead Replacement can recruit who they want to play with. (Low likelihood of success, but not zero)
Option B: You become a salary dumping ground in the furious race for Durant, Leonard, Irving, Thompson, Cousins, Butler, Walker, Harris, and maybe Porzingas. The first week of free agency is going to be crazy, and somebody is going to give away a farm for the chance to sign two. (Several teams have cap space, but most are looking for win now moves.)
Option C: You fill out the roster with low priced players around Holliday and the Davis haul. Save money while you take your lumps, and have the ability to take on lopsided trades or salary dumps.
I don't hate any of your trades in isolation, but no way would I give up option A before I absolutely have to. And options B and C are not significantly worse to me than your desired plan.
But the most important argument is that the 90 million dollar payroll can be option C.
Option A: Davis/Lead Replacement can recruit who they want to play with. (Low likelihood of success, but not zero)
Option B: You become a salary dumping ground in the furious race for Durant, Leonard, Irving, Thompson, Cousins, Butler, Walker, Harris, and maybe Porzingas. The first week of free agency is going to be crazy, and somebody is going to give away a farm for the chance to sign two. (Several teams have cap space, but most are looking for win now moves.)
Option C: You fill out the roster with low priced players around Holliday and the Davis haul. Save money while you take your lumps, and have the ability to take on lopsided trades or salary dumps.
I don't hate any of your trades in isolation, but no way would I give up option A before I absolutely have to. And options B and C are not significantly worse to me than your desired plan.
Posted on 1/20/19 at 9:19 pm to mhasen1
I don't think there will be as many salary dumps this summer as you think and there will be multiple suitors for those. I am just beating others to the punch and getting the pick now rather than waiting and hoping I get them later.
I don't live in the fantasy land where A is even possible. He's gone and will tell Dell as much over the AS break but it won't be leaked until May or June
I don't live in the fantasy land where A is even possible. He's gone and will tell Dell as much over the AS break but it won't be leaked until May or June
Posted on 1/20/19 at 9:41 pm to Crewz
If the Pels know that Davis will tell them he is gone then they have to be sellers right now. They just have to
Posted on 1/20/19 at 9:55 pm to PelicanFever
Rich Paul hasn't told them that yet.
On top of that, they think that AD will recoup any picks they give up. So they can go get a Conley type now and still get Tatum and picks this summer. Their argument would be that they likely won't be this bad again and they wouldn't have a pick this high to trade for a high end player.
I disagree.
On top of that, they think that AD will recoup any picks they give up. So they can go get a Conley type now and still get Tatum and picks this summer. Their argument would be that they likely won't be this bad again and they wouldn't have a pick this high to trade for a high end player.
I disagree.
Posted on 1/20/19 at 9:59 pm to Crewz
Conley
Jrue
Tatum
Hayward
Niko/draft a young rim protector
That’s a good team, and would probably win more than any AD Pels team, assuming Gentry isn’t the coach.
Jrue
Tatum
Hayward
Niko/draft a young rim protector
That’s a good team, and would probably win more than any AD Pels team, assuming Gentry isn’t the coach.
Posted on 1/20/19 at 10:03 pm to TeddyPadillac
On paper, sure. But is it a sustainable team built to last and overcome injuries - no.
Conley, Jrue, Hayward, and Tatum would all hit free agency about the same time. Too many high usage players too.
You need 1-2 high priced vets. 2-3 guys coming to the end of their first contract and another 2-3 starting their rookie contract. To fill out the roster, get hungry, low usage high effort guys on short contracts to maintain flexibility.
That would be my plan, at least
Conley, Jrue, Hayward, and Tatum would all hit free agency about the same time. Too many high usage players too.
You need 1-2 high priced vets. 2-3 guys coming to the end of their first contract and another 2-3 starting their rookie contract. To fill out the roster, get hungry, low usage high effort guys on short contracts to maintain flexibility.
That would be my plan, at least
Posted on 1/20/19 at 10:25 pm to Crewz
What team is built to last and overcome injuries? We are not going to build the Warriors here.
I agree about the usage, but if Hayward fully returns to form, then I’d say you look to move Conley when he’s an expiring and move forward with those 3, and whatever hopefully young assets you were able to turn into quality players.
Jrue and Hayward would be your high priced vets, Tatum your youngen, and then hopefully a young asset from the draft and whatever role players you can get for Conley to fill out the team.
I’ll never say no to adding talented players and Conley is a talented player.
I agree about the usage, but if Hayward fully returns to form, then I’d say you look to move Conley when he’s an expiring and move forward with those 3, and whatever hopefully young assets you were able to turn into quality players.
Jrue and Hayward would be your high priced vets, Tatum your youngen, and then hopefully a young asset from the draft and whatever role players you can get for Conley to fill out the team.
I’ll never say no to adding talented players and Conley is a talented player.
This post was edited on 1/20/19 at 10:26 pm
Posted on 1/20/19 at 10:32 pm to TeddyPadillac
You can overcome injuries with depth. And build sustainability with talented guys on different levels of contracts, coming up for renewal at different times.
I'm done with top heavy teams. Moving forward, I want my 5th best player and 9th best player to be on a similar level, just with different strengths and weaknesses
I'm done with top heavy teams. Moving forward, I want my 5th best player and 9th best player to be on a similar level, just with different strengths and weaknesses
Posted on 1/20/19 at 10:34 pm to Crewz
That is ideal but how are you going to achieve that?
Posted on 1/20/19 at 10:42 pm to Crewz
quote:
On paper, sure. But is it a sustainable team built to last and overcome injuries - no.
Conley, Jrue, Hayward, and Tatum would all hit free agency about the same time. Too many high usage players too.
You need 1-2 high priced vets. 2-3 guys coming to the end of their first contract and another 2-3 starting their rookie contract. To fill out the roster, get hungry, low usage high effort guys on short contracts to maintain flexibility.
That would be my plan, at least
Them all hitting FA at the same time could be very beneficial.
Posted on 1/20/19 at 10:42 pm to TeddyPadillac
Sell a tiny bit now. Say we do my trade where Niko goes to Philly and we get Chicago's 2nd from Philly and Shake Melton.
In summer, I trade AD and Hill for Hayward, Tatum, Kings 1st, and Memphis 1st in 2020 from Boston.
Now, I have 2 firsts and 2 high 2nds in 2019 draft. I also have 2 likely lotto 1sts and my 2nd in 2020.
I draft 1 safe guy in the first, 1 high reward guy. I do Eurostash with Bulls 2nd, 4 year college guy with my 2nd round pick. To put real names to that, imagine:
Core of Jrue-Tatum-Hayward. Hardworking bigs on short contracts for now. Then, developing behind them are Frank Jackson, Melton, De'Andre Hunter, Sekou Doumbouya, and Admiral Schofield. Goga Bitadze stashed overseas.
I got picks in 2020 to get some more young talent. Also, could be trade ammo for the right guy. By the time Hayward comes off the books, one of my young guys is ready to step into his role. Perhaps the same goes for Jrue too. I use that money to fill other positions and/or pay my young guys who panned out
In summer, I trade AD and Hill for Hayward, Tatum, Kings 1st, and Memphis 1st in 2020 from Boston.
Now, I have 2 firsts and 2 high 2nds in 2019 draft. I also have 2 likely lotto 1sts and my 2nd in 2020.
I draft 1 safe guy in the first, 1 high reward guy. I do Eurostash with Bulls 2nd, 4 year college guy with my 2nd round pick. To put real names to that, imagine:
Core of Jrue-Tatum-Hayward. Hardworking bigs on short contracts for now. Then, developing behind them are Frank Jackson, Melton, De'Andre Hunter, Sekou Doumbouya, and Admiral Schofield. Goga Bitadze stashed overseas.
I got picks in 2020 to get some more young talent. Also, could be trade ammo for the right guy. By the time Hayward comes off the books, one of my young guys is ready to step into his role. Perhaps the same goes for Jrue too. I use that money to fill other positions and/or pay my young guys who panned out
This post was edited on 1/20/19 at 10:43 pm
Posted on 1/20/19 at 10:43 pm to ShamelessPel
If we were in another city, sure.
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