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Message
re: Offseason Dell Demps Job Watch - Day 28ish - And now my watch is ended
Posted on 5/8/16 at 2:59 pm to corndeaux
Posted on 5/8/16 at 2:59 pm to corndeaux
My barometer for confidence in this organization will be determined if we do fire Demps and how we go about filling the vacancy.
If we fire Demps and immediately install Dumars and CO. I will probably be disillusioned to the point of withdrawal. If we do the smart organizational thing and go through a diligent and exhaustive search process to fill the void, I will accept the outcome, even if Dumars emerges from that as the guy. The former would show the sort of nepotism and incompetence that I worry is tanking this teams chances for success. The latter would at least show we are doing our due diligence and trying to improve our decision-making. Though that still wouldn't make the team immune from criticism if the ultimate decisions stemming from that process sucks.
If we fire Demps and immediately install Dumars and CO. I will probably be disillusioned to the point of withdrawal. If we do the smart organizational thing and go through a diligent and exhaustive search process to fill the void, I will accept the outcome, even if Dumars emerges from that as the guy. The former would show the sort of nepotism and incompetence that I worry is tanking this teams chances for success. The latter would at least show we are doing our due diligence and trying to improve our decision-making. Though that still wouldn't make the team immune from criticism if the ultimate decisions stemming from that process sucks.
1
Posted on 5/8/16 at 3:32 pm to NOLA Bronco
Is HH running PR again? 
This post was edited on 5/8/16 at 3:33 pm
Posted on 5/8/16 at 3:35 pm to NOLA Bronco
I agree. Firing Demps isn't enough.
There needs to be an exhaustive search. A systematic overhaul. A new President of Basketball Ops that is a basketball guy and a new GM. More focus on analytics and the latest medical.
There needs to be an exhaustive search. A systematic overhaul. A new President of Basketball Ops that is a basketball guy and a new GM. More focus on analytics and the latest medical.
Posted on 5/8/16 at 3:36 pm to VOR
quote:
Is HH running PR again?
Haha, nope, worse, 42.
Posted on 5/8/16 at 3:48 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
I agree. Firing Demps isn't enough.
There needs to be an exhaustive search. A systematic overhaul. A new President of Basketball Ops that is a basketball guy and a new GM. More focus on analytics and the latest medical.
That is partially why Schlenk really intrigues me. Or even a guy like Ferry. Guys that have built or been a key cog in building a successful modern NBA organization.
Schlenk is someone that has seen firsthand how an organization goes from being a behind the curve, semi-dysfunctional organization to arguably one of the top 3 best run organizations in the league. Arguably on the forefront in many areas.
Does anyone really think Dumars would come in as a PBO and lobby for investing in stronger analytics infrastructure, cutting edge training and medical facilities, bring in strong minds that he would defer to like GS did with Jerry West, and install the sort of participatory, transparent and cooperative organization structure that seems to be the current model of long term success for teams today like GS or SA?
Dumars would seek an arrangement like a poor-mans Pat Riley. Being the Don but unlike Riley who has actually been a fairly forward thinking guy when it comes to analytics and such, Dumars has never shown that sort of mindset.
This post was edited on 5/8/16 at 3:50 pm
Posted on 5/9/16 at 6:17 am to NOLA Bronco
I agree. The problem is, even if you believe Benson/Loomis would hire a Ferry or Schlenk, will they give him the support (financial and otherwise) to build that type of culture? Because it won't work without ownership buying in and providing muscle behind the philosophy.
And I have serious doubts. Nothing they have done with the Saints or the Pels screams forward thinking. They seem to be a very insular group. With Benson's health an issue, Loomis is looking at being a de facto owner for quite a while. Who's got the stick and the willingness to demote him?
And I have serious doubts. Nothing they have done with the Saints or the Pels screams forward thinking. They seem to be a very insular group. With Benson's health an issue, Loomis is looking at being a de facto owner for quite a while. Who's got the stick and the willingness to demote him?
Posted on 5/9/16 at 7:28 am to corndeaux
quote:
And I have serious doubts. Nothing they have done with the Saints or the Pels screams forward thinking. They seem to be a very insular group.
Very insular group, no doubt. However, with the Saints there are signs that they re-evaluated where they are and recognized deficiencies. They seem to be at least saying the right things.
We'll just have to wait and see about the Pelicans. I was looking at the paper yesterday and there was a photo of Demps and his wife sitting next to Loomis watching Demps' son play at a Newman High School game back in February.
LINK
I wonder how cozy they are really?
Posted on 5/9/16 at 8:04 am to corndeaux
I'm not sure Loomis needs to be demoted, he just needs to remain the voice of ownership and put an actual POBO in place. The problem with Loomis as POBO isn't that he's meddlesome or even sets unacceptable direction, Playoffs as quickly and often as possible is quite a common directive for smaller market teams. The problem is that all Loomis is really experienced to do is be the ownership voice.
Demps is a first time GM, and I'm sure he's learned a lot since he's been here, but I've felt since the moment he was hired they needed someone to help him out. As far as I'm aware they never even replaced Tim Connely when he left. I'm sure someone is the assistant GM, but I don't recall an announcement so it was probably a promotion within meaning the sum total of basketball experience is less than it was when Connely was there.
There has been an explosion in NBA podcasting lately so we're getting to see the thought processes of a lot of FO personnel. The thing they all say is most important is Ownership/Management/Coaching being on the same page. The next most common theme they've all talked about are how deals get made typically with people you know and trust. Example, SVG was offered Tobias Harris for expirings, not us, although we could have had that deal through Stan if he had wanted Ryno more than Harris. Just from the standpoint of opening more trade opportunities a veteran NBA exec would be more useful than Loomis.
Demps is a first time GM, and I'm sure he's learned a lot since he's been here, but I've felt since the moment he was hired they needed someone to help him out. As far as I'm aware they never even replaced Tim Connely when he left. I'm sure someone is the assistant GM, but I don't recall an announcement so it was probably a promotion within meaning the sum total of basketball experience is less than it was when Connely was there.
There has been an explosion in NBA podcasting lately so we're getting to see the thought processes of a lot of FO personnel. The thing they all say is most important is Ownership/Management/Coaching being on the same page. The next most common theme they've all talked about are how deals get made typically with people you know and trust. Example, SVG was offered Tobias Harris for expirings, not us, although we could have had that deal through Stan if he had wanted Ryno more than Harris. Just from the standpoint of opening more trade opportunities a veteran NBA exec would be more useful than Loomis.
This post was edited on 5/9/16 at 8:27 am
Posted on 5/9/16 at 8:18 am to VOR
quote:
I wonder how cozy they are really?
Loomis and Demps have made a lot of similar mistakes, or rather than mistakes, they've both had what seemed like good moves at the time blow up in their faces due to unforseeable circumstances like injury. I've always believed part of why Loomis chose Demps over Monty is because they can relate to each other on the GM level because of their similar misses. Monty's negatives were flaws on an imperfect coach, Demps' negatives were understandable mistakes anyone including Loomis could have made. So I'm sure they are cozy. But cozy isn't going to fill the SKC.
Also Loomis' mistakes eventually resulted in the team feeling the need to bring in Ireland. It'd be interesting to know where that decision came from. If they made that decision for the Saints it's not crazy to think they could do it for the Pels, but do the people that made that decision have any input or concern with the Pels?
Posted on 5/9/16 at 10:10 am to TigerinATL
quote:
Demps' negatives were understandable mistakes anyone including Loomis could have made.
Not really. The Tyreke mistake has nothing to do with injuries or anything unforeseen. He overpaid for a really poor fit. That said, it is similar to Loomis' ability to field a competent secondary.
Posted on 5/9/16 at 10:41 am to Jester
This is the week it happens... I can feel it.
Posted on 5/9/16 at 10:55 am to LSUpelsSaints
Well, it pretty much as to be this week or it shouldn't happen at all. Need to have a replacement within a week, basically.
Posted on 5/9/16 at 10:57 am to Jester
quote:
Not really
I'm projecting from Loomis' perspectives because he made similar mistakes with the Saints, thus they've bonded and are cozy. I'm sure Byrd and Browner seemed like good ideas at the time to him.
Posted on 5/9/16 at 2:52 pm to VOR
That's fair. I think my main worry is that they are late to the party. Oh, you're just now, in 2016, building an in house analytics department? That's cute. I'd much rather feel like they are organizationally curious and investing on their own in these areas, rather than playing catch up.
Being meddlesome or setting unacceptable directions is a HUGE part of the problem to me.
And the whole succession question muddies the waters a good bit. Does Benson have anyone but "yes" men around him? Do these guys, knowing they could be cut out if they cross him, have the balls to say "Tom, wait a minute. This idea makes no sense?"
Loomis, as POBO right now, seems to be little more than the Benson proxy. Do we have any word that he is actually in charge of personnel/scouting/trades? He may say "Don't trade our 1st" or "We can sign that guy." But that, again, seems like an ownership statement, than a basketball statement.
This gets back to the ownership building support to succeed. They took their time (never?) replenishing Monty's vacant staff spot too. There's no cap on those salaries. If ownership won't hire a full complement of coaches or a full GM staff, why would they hire a new exec when Loomis is already doing what they think a POBO should do?
To circle back around- if they are going to meddle/have unreasonable expectations AND not spend top dollar to achieve those results, this entire thing is fricked, but by the grace of our lord and savior, Anthony Davis
quote:
I'm not sure Loomis needs to be demoted, he just needs to remain the voice of ownership and put an actual POBO in place. The problem with Loomis as POBO isn't that he's meddlesome or even sets unacceptable direction, Playoffs as quickly and often as possible is quite a common directive for smaller market teams.
Being meddlesome or setting unacceptable directions is a HUGE part of the problem to me.
And the whole succession question muddies the waters a good bit. Does Benson have anyone but "yes" men around him? Do these guys, knowing they could be cut out if they cross him, have the balls to say "Tom, wait a minute. This idea makes no sense?"
quote:
Just from the standpoint of opening more trade opportunities a veteran NBA exec would be more useful than Loomis.
quote:
The problem is that all Loomis is really experienced to do is be the ownership voice
Loomis, as POBO right now, seems to be little more than the Benson proxy. Do we have any word that he is actually in charge of personnel/scouting/trades? He may say "Don't trade our 1st" or "We can sign that guy." But that, again, seems like an ownership statement, than a basketball statement.
quote:
As far as I'm aware they never even replaced Tim Connely when he left.
This gets back to the ownership building support to succeed. They took their time (never?) replenishing Monty's vacant staff spot too. There's no cap on those salaries. If ownership won't hire a full complement of coaches or a full GM staff, why would they hire a new exec when Loomis is already doing what they think a POBO should do?
To circle back around- if they are going to meddle/have unreasonable expectations AND not spend top dollar to achieve those results, this entire thing is fricked, but by the grace of our lord and savior, Anthony Davis
This post was edited on 5/9/16 at 2:54 pm
Posted on 5/9/16 at 3:17 pm to corndeaux
quote:
Do we have any word that he is actually in charge of personnel/scouting/trades? He may say "Don't trade our 1st" or "We can sign that guy." But that, again, seems like an ownership statement, than a basketball statement.
That was my point in saying he doesn't need a demotion, he's not actually performing as a POBO, we are basically working without a POBO. Some teams do that. Ainge runs a small FO in Boston, but Demps has continued to make miscalculation after miscalculation, he clearly would benefit from someone more knowledgeable than him that doesn't report to him.
quote:
Being meddlesome or setting unacceptable directions is a HUGE part of the problem to me.
My first thought is how can he be meddlesome if we agree he's not really acting as a POBO, but I guess Head Trainer Duane Brooks is exhibit A of the meddling.
As far as the direction goes, part of the supposed selling point to Benson was the synergy the Pelicans would have with his other area investments. An empty SKC isn't good for the Pels and some of Benson's other business interests. That's why I think Dumars is our best chance to change direction. I can't see them eating Gentry's $7 million, plus paying JVG Sean Payton money, and then having JVG tell them it may take at least a year of roster retooling to get back to the playoffs because they recommitted to a roster that wasn't really playoff worthy the year they backed into the playoffs.
Posted on 5/9/16 at 3:28 pm to TigerinATL
So when's Dell getting let go? 
This post was edited on 5/9/16 at 3:31 pm
Posted on 5/9/16 at 3:38 pm to tzimme4
quote:
So when's Dell getting let go?
How should I know? I've never said I have inside information. I've been questioning the authoritativeness of sources being used by the people that do have inside information because y'all have all been basically asking front line employees if they're going to get fired at some point in the future. They are not the ones that would have that information until it happened.
I've already put forth my best guesstimate based on last year. Today last year they announced signing of the Saints draft picks and then tomorrow last year Loomis fired Monty. First let's see if they announce the draft picks today. Then we can all be on pins and needles tomorrow. They really do need to do something this week if they're going to do something though.
Posted on 5/9/16 at 3:44 pm to TigerinATL
FYI I don't think the last pick was signed until maybe the 11th last year.
Posted on 5/9/16 at 3:52 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
The #Saints have signed draft picks DT Sheldon Rankins, WR Michael Thomas & RB Daniel Lasco
like clockwork....... Dell gone tomorrow?
This post was edited on 5/9/16 at 3:53 pm
Posted on 5/9/16 at 3:53 pm to tigerbait44
Was just about to post that. Just Onyemata and Bell left, which is obviously no problem.
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