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re: Objectively, should we be 1-10?
Posted on 11/9/21 at 11:16 am to Soggymoss
Posted on 11/9/21 at 11:16 am to Soggymoss
quote:Playoffs? Must be nice.
Yeah, let's see how that works out for them in the playoffs.
quote:LOL
Also, Val, Graham, Herb, Trey, and yes even Temple (he'd been playing pretty damn good lately) 4-5 key contributors in one offseason. Griff did it, just have 2 all stars injured.
1
Posted on 11/9/21 at 11:20 am to eyeran
quote:
Not having overweight injured superstars? Must be nice
Fixed that for you
Posted on 11/9/21 at 11:28 am to Fun Bunch
quote:Generally that’s how that goes. When you also look at how bad our bench has been to start the year, it goes hand in hand.
If you're missing your 2 star players and a fairly key contributor, should you be this bad?
Posted on 11/9/21 at 1:08 pm to Fun Bunch
It may be “year 3” of the rebuild, but, the team itself didn’t really start to reflect that until last year. And if we’re being honest, the entire organization is basically a brand new franchise that was rebuilt from the ground up in 2019. Unfortunately SVG really completely stunted that rebuild direction last year. Personnel signified rebuild, but he didn’t want any part of that.
IMO trading Jrue really signified it. Now, all of these young guys getting these minutes is really where it gets going. SVG didn’t play any of these dudes unless he had to it felt like.
I also think there’s a fraction of the malcontent attitude towards the FO without the immediate and constant pressure since Zion was drafted.
IMO trading Jrue really signified it. Now, all of these young guys getting these minutes is really where it gets going. SVG didn’t play any of these dudes unless he had to it felt like.
I also think there’s a fraction of the malcontent attitude towards the FO without the immediate and constant pressure since Zion was drafted.
Posted on 11/9/21 at 1:12 pm to Bronc
quote:
No one was forcing Griff to put all his eggs in the Lowry and CP3 basket. And I am pretty sure had you reigned in your expectations we could have gotten some FA's.
Except for the entire national media who were screaming until they were blue in the face we had to absolutely crush FA or Zion was leaving.
Posted on 11/9/21 at 1:12 pm to Brettesaurus Rex
quote:
SVG didn’t play any of these dudes unless he had to it felt like.
I think if anyone has actually watched the first 10 games it is abundantly clear why SVG didn't play Kira, NAW, and Jax heavy minutes all year.
Bledsoe was bad last season, but turns out, NAW and Kira were in fact worse.
Posted on 11/9/21 at 1:13 pm to Brettesaurus Rex
quote:
Except for the entire national media who were screaming until they were blue in the face we had to absolutely crush FA or Zion was leaving.
No one was telling him Lowry or bust, and the reason the pressure is now on is because Griff botched the seasons prior. Lets quit making excuses for poor management.
Posted on 11/9/21 at 1:14 pm to Bronc
Lmaooooooo yeah because they definitely wouldn’t have gotten any better with more playing time last year.
Posted on 11/9/21 at 1:17 pm to Brettesaurus Rex
quote:
Lmaooooooo yeah because they definitely wouldn’t have gotten any better with more playing time last year.
Who hired SVG and let him finish out the season?
Posted on 11/9/21 at 1:19 pm to Bronc
Yeah I’m sure having to trade your best player to start your last two offseasons really helped.
Posted on 11/9/21 at 1:19 pm to Bronc
And?
Posted on 11/9/21 at 1:26 pm to Brettesaurus Rex
And what?
You are trying to make excuse after excuse and it all falls back on the same guy you are trying to deflect for.
No one told Griff he had to put all his eggs in the Lowry basket
No one told Griff he had to hire SVG
No one told Griff to draft three insanely raw players with his draft picks and then bring in coaches that couldn't develop them, then force them into roles they aren't ready for.
There is a common thread here: Griff
You are trying to make excuse after excuse and it all falls back on the same guy you are trying to deflect for.
No one told Griff he had to put all his eggs in the Lowry basket
No one told Griff he had to hire SVG
No one told Griff to draft three insanely raw players with his draft picks and then bring in coaches that couldn't develop them, then force them into roles they aren't ready for.
There is a common thread here: Griff
Posted on 11/9/21 at 1:26 pm to Bronc
quote:
The only reason that you would be fielding a rotation of guys this bad is terrible roster mismanagement.
I agree with this. The roster isnt fantastic even fully healthy, but we would be around .500 or better if we were healthy IMO. If that were the case, would you be content or would you think we should be a contender since our stars don’t make an extreme amount of money?
quote:
I think if anyone has actually watched the first 10 games it is abundantly clear why SVG didn't play Kira, NAW, and Jax heavy minutes all year
I don’t think this benefit of the doubt should be given. You can’t use NAW’s shitty regression this year to show why SVG was right to not play him last year. He was objectively better last year and was showing improvement. Maybe he wouldnt suck as much right now if SVG did play him instead of fricking Eric Bledsoe
This post was edited on 11/9/21 at 1:31 pm
Posted on 11/9/21 at 1:31 pm to Brettesaurus Rex
quote:
Yeah I’m sure having to trade your best player to start your last two offseasons really helped.
what about something worst like losing your best player Kawhi for nothing, then losing your best player Lowry for nothing, then starting the season without your best player in Siakam, and making basically 1 1st round pick in the last 4 years, yet still going 6-5 to start this season.
Really hurting the Raptors right now.
Posted on 11/9/21 at 1:38 pm to LilWezyAna
quote:
If that were the case, would you be content or would you think we should be a contender since our stars don’t make an extreme amount of money?
There is no excuse for this franchise to not have an incredibly deep and quality roster around BI/Zion.
quote:
You can’t use NAW’s shitty regression this year to show why SVG was right to not play him last year. He was objectively better last year and was showing improvement.
NAW was given a bigger role and more responsibility and he has floundered, why do you automatically presume that had it been given last season he would have performed better?
And dont give me that nonsense about a half dozen random starts when teams still didnt have scouting reports and tendencies down on NAW.
Posted on 11/9/21 at 2:13 pm to Bronc
I’m tired of unrealistic expectations of a rebuilding process that’s constantly scrutinized at every single level.
For all intents and purposes, this is a brand new franchise starting in 2019. Started off by having to trade your best player to a specific team. Started the next offseason the same way with Jrue wanting a trade. Oh and your franchise player hasn’t even been healthy 1/3rd of the time he’s been here, yet, the constant screaming and barrage of threats of him leaving never leave the front gates of the building.
I just don’t get the expectation. What are you possibly expecting the return to be this early in the rebuild? I mean, this ENTIRE ORGANIZATION was rebuilt from top to bottom. You expect every move to be perfect?
We couldn’t even pull a 2nd or 3rd tier FA this offseason yet. So guess what, it’s build through the draft and count on your two all stars to be the engine for you every night. I don’t see too many complaints about JV or Graham. Oh and we still have a 17M trade exception.
I’m perfectly fine with Griffin not pushing all the chips to the middle of the table yet as far as big trades. Right now is the time to get all these young guys as much time as possible to see what you really have. By this trade deadline or offseason if you feel like you have a good move to make, do it. If we’re still in the cellar of the playoff race because Zion hasn’t played or Ingram is in and out, I mean that’s just what it is.
You’re gonna be pissed off on a nightly basis if you can’t just accept those simple facts. It makes for a hell of a much more enjoyable season when you just enjoy the process.
For all intents and purposes, this is a brand new franchise starting in 2019. Started off by having to trade your best player to a specific team. Started the next offseason the same way with Jrue wanting a trade. Oh and your franchise player hasn’t even been healthy 1/3rd of the time he’s been here, yet, the constant screaming and barrage of threats of him leaving never leave the front gates of the building.
I just don’t get the expectation. What are you possibly expecting the return to be this early in the rebuild? I mean, this ENTIRE ORGANIZATION was rebuilt from top to bottom. You expect every move to be perfect?
We couldn’t even pull a 2nd or 3rd tier FA this offseason yet. So guess what, it’s build through the draft and count on your two all stars to be the engine for you every night. I don’t see too many complaints about JV or Graham. Oh and we still have a 17M trade exception.
I’m perfectly fine with Griffin not pushing all the chips to the middle of the table yet as far as big trades. Right now is the time to get all these young guys as much time as possible to see what you really have. By this trade deadline or offseason if you feel like you have a good move to make, do it. If we’re still in the cellar of the playoff race because Zion hasn’t played or Ingram is in and out, I mean that’s just what it is.
You’re gonna be pissed off on a nightly basis if you can’t just accept those simple facts. It makes for a hell of a much more enjoyable season when you just enjoy the process.
Posted on 11/9/21 at 2:36 pm to Fun Bunch
We just need more consistency from the other contributors. Jonas, BI and Zion seem to be the only consistently positive forces on the court. We then have Graham, who is more hot than cold, but is still a streaky shooter.
A bit early to tell for sure, but Herb seems like another consistent presence.
Then there is
Hart (50/50 hot/cold)
Jaxson (Shows flashes, but is way too streaky)
NAW (Same as above)
Kira (Same as above, but a bit worse when he's on)
Trey (Still young, but also not consistent yet)
Naji (Consistent effort defensively, not a great scorer)
Temple (Flashes of good defense, good corner 3, not great otherwise)
Sato (Unplayable)
Billy (Unplayable)
So essentially the only consistent positive we've had the last several games has been Jonas. Griff took gambles that NAW, Kira and Jaxson would make significant strides; which, while still possible, seems like it was poor judgement at this point.
All that being said, I'm sure the plan was to have our stars carry us until the youth could get it together consistently. So I understand the thought of how it could have started out differently in 2021; but a good GM has a backup plan in case of injuries, and that has proven to not be the case with Griff.
This season isn't an outlier either. We've been gambling on streaky players since day one of the Griff Era. It worked out with BI, but that's really the only one.
A bit early to tell for sure, but Herb seems like another consistent presence.
Then there is
Hart (50/50 hot/cold)
Jaxson (Shows flashes, but is way too streaky)
NAW (Same as above)
Kira (Same as above, but a bit worse when he's on)
Trey (Still young, but also not consistent yet)
Naji (Consistent effort defensively, not a great scorer)
Temple (Flashes of good defense, good corner 3, not great otherwise)
Sato (Unplayable)
Billy (Unplayable)
So essentially the only consistent positive we've had the last several games has been Jonas. Griff took gambles that NAW, Kira and Jaxson would make significant strides; which, while still possible, seems like it was poor judgement at this point.
All that being said, I'm sure the plan was to have our stars carry us until the youth could get it together consistently. So I understand the thought of how it could have started out differently in 2021; but a good GM has a backup plan in case of injuries, and that has proven to not be the case with Griff.
This season isn't an outlier either. We've been gambling on streaky players since day one of the Griff Era. It worked out with BI, but that's really the only one.
Posted on 11/9/21 at 2:51 pm to Brettesaurus Rex
Who could they realistically get with that 17M exception? Gary Harris? Eric Gordon?
Posted on 11/9/21 at 2:57 pm to brmark70816
There was speculation during the summer that the Jazz would move one of Ingles or Bogdonavic to cut their tax bill.
Posted on 11/9/21 at 3:02 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Even if we wanted to make a big move this trade deadline, our best asset to offer up is our '24 1st, which is the first one we can offer b/c of the idiotic Graham "FA signing". We have no players worth a shite to offer up, since we wouldn't be offering BI or Zion, and our 1sts aren't even attractive anymore. Bravo Griffin. Bravo.
I lost confidence in Griff after the Adams trade. He’s totally screwed up the rebuild. No way I’m letting him use future assets for trades now. He will have to use what’s currently on the roster and 2nd round picks. He’s burned through enough already.
Maybe we can get a competent GM this off-season and leave him something to work with.
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