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Message
re: NBA Offseason officially kicks off, Ingram’s days in NOLA coming to an end per Stein
Posted on 8/12/24 at 10:29 am to shel311
Posted on 8/12/24 at 10:29 am to shel311
quote:
Murray is replacing that production.
Trey will provide something else, something we desperately need.
This is exactly correct. Murray replaces the BI production with a significantly better fit. Then, Trey gets inserted into the lineup to provide what was desperately missing from the starting lineup last season.
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Posted on 8/12/24 at 10:48 am to shel311
I agree that Murray was brought in to replace BI, but the way it looks right now that's not actually going happen.
and I agree that I'd like to see Trey starting, btut he's not starting over CJ, even though he should.
Someone has to come off the bench and be that 6th man scorer. It's an important role, and that guy is going to play 30+ minutes regardless if he's starting or not. If they are going to keep playing Zion a good bit with 2nd units, then it's better that Trey comes off the bench and CJ starts.
If they move BI soon, and CJ is moved in the offseason b/c he doesn't want to come off the bench, then it would be very imperative that we find another scorer that can come off the bench. I know a lot of guys don't really care for Herro b/c he's an idiot and is terrible on defense, but that's the kind of 6th man i'd like to have. I'd really rather if CJ accepted the role off the bench though, as he's exactly what you want in that role, and he can create for himself in that role better than he probably can as a starter.
and I agree that I'd like to see Trey starting, btut he's not starting over CJ, even though he should.
Someone has to come off the bench and be that 6th man scorer. It's an important role, and that guy is going to play 30+ minutes regardless if he's starting or not. If they are going to keep playing Zion a good bit with 2nd units, then it's better that Trey comes off the bench and CJ starts.
If they move BI soon, and CJ is moved in the offseason b/c he doesn't want to come off the bench, then it would be very imperative that we find another scorer that can come off the bench. I know a lot of guys don't really care for Herro b/c he's an idiot and is terrible on defense, but that's the kind of 6th man i'd like to have. I'd really rather if CJ accepted the role off the bench though, as he's exactly what you want in that role, and he can create for himself in that role better than he probably can as a starter.
Posted on 8/12/24 at 11:29 am to TeddyPadillac
If we had a Pat Riley who doesn't give two fricks, he would easily bench CJ and BI for offensive purposes and start Herb and Trey for role oriented starts. Willie is going to try to make everyone happy and start an all star style lineup. This is going to be another up and down first 25-30 games trying to figure out hierarchy, chemistry, and fit. There's just too many hands to feed in the starting lineup and not enough guys who are willing to make the right sacrifices and be connectors to make it viable.
We're going to be similar to the Suns early on trying to figure out how everyone is going to fit in and if they can play the roles asked of them. I'm tired of the unnecessary experimenting when the blueprint is already written.
We're going to be similar to the Suns early on trying to figure out how everyone is going to fit in and if they can play the roles asked of them. I'm tired of the unnecessary experimenting when the blueprint is already written.
Posted on 8/12/24 at 11:48 am to supe12sta12z
quote:
If we had a Pat Riley who doesn't give two fricks, he would easily bench CJ and BI for offensive purposes and start Herb and Trey for role oriented starts.
BI will never come off the bench for the rest of his career. When he gets to that point, he'd retire. Don't be silly thinking he shouldn't start.
quote:
Willie is going to try to make everyone happy and start an all star style lineup. This is going to be another up and down first 25-30 games trying to figure out hierarchy, chemistry, and fit. There's just too many hands to feed in the starting lineup and not enough guys who are willing to make the right sacrifices and be connectors to make it viable.
We're going to be similar to the Suns early on trying to figure out how everyone is going to fit in and if they can play the roles asked of them. I'm tired of the unnecessary experimenting when the blueprint is already written.
I fear this as well.
I'm almost expecting to come out the gate like shite and have tons of issues, assuming BI isn't moved before the season starts. Im still intrigued to see the Murray/Herb/BI/Trey/Zion lineup, but like you said, it's just too many mouths to feed.
Zion needs to be averaging 25ppg.
Murray and BI should both easily average 20+ in the right environment.
CJ and Trey are 17-20ppg guys
You simply can't have 5 guys like that on the team. No team has 5 guys averaging over 16-17ppg.
Look at the Celtics this year with their 5th leading scorer in Jrue averaging 12.5ppg. Most teams don't have more than 2 guys averaging 15+ ppg. 3 is somewhat common, 4 is rare, and 5 is even more rare.
quote:
The 2021-22 Raptors made history by being one of two teams in NBA history to have all five starters average over 15-plus points per game (PPG). The only other team to ever have those averages were the 1973-74 Buffalo Braves led by Bob McAdoo (30.6 PPG), Jim McMillan (18.6 PPG), Ernie DiGregorio (15.2 PPG), Gar Heard (15.3 PPG), Randy Smith (15.5 PPG).
You have to have the right mix of scorers and role players. It's the issue the olympic team had a bit with guys not really wanting to step up and take certain shots b/c they feel like they should defer to Lebron/Curry/KD. It's why guys like Jrue and Derrick White are important to the olympic team, as well as the Celtics.
Posted on 8/12/24 at 12:21 pm to TeddyPadillac
Seems like we're just stuck as there's no market for BI.
I get it, realistically BI won't come off the bench. But my fear is we're going to prioiritze 2 guys with no long term future and prioritize their feelings while 2 long term future Pels players will suffer. That's just not the right play IMO.
If I had to guess, it's Herb and Trey that will suffer the most. Herb may get his minutes and start, but with so many mouths to feed, I'd look for his offense and shot attempts to go down, when he's a guy I'd love to see take more shots and attack more. Trey, he just won't get starter minutes and most minutes matched with Zion or nearly enough shots up as a result of minutes and the aforementioned other mouths to feed.
I get it, realistically BI won't come off the bench. But my fear is we're going to prioiritze 2 guys with no long term future and prioritize their feelings while 2 long term future Pels players will suffer. That's just not the right play IMO.
If I had to guess, it's Herb and Trey that will suffer the most. Herb may get his minutes and start, but with so many mouths to feed, I'd look for his offense and shot attempts to go down, when he's a guy I'd love to see take more shots and attack more. Trey, he just won't get starter minutes and most minutes matched with Zion or nearly enough shots up as a result of minutes and the aforementioned other mouths to feed.
Posted on 8/12/24 at 12:32 pm to shel311
This is just all doesn't seem worth it.
At this point trading BI is addition by subtraction imo
At this point trading BI is addition by subtraction imo
Posted on 8/12/24 at 2:32 pm to Silverfoxx
quote:
At this point trading BI is addition by subtraction imo
Yeah, losing your second-best player is a great way to get better.
Posted on 8/12/24 at 3:01 pm to Galactic Inquisitor
quote:
Yeah, losing your second-best player is a great way to get better.
Ingram was our 3rd or 4th best player last year. We just added a new 2nd. He's moving out of that top 5 pretty soon..
Posted on 8/12/24 at 3:52 pm to brmark70816
quote:So, Murray is anointed before ever stepping foot on the court? Too much bias to take seriously. Let's see how he even fits first.
Ingram was our 3rd or 4th best player last year. We just added a new 2nd. He's moving out of that top 5 pretty soon..
Posted on 8/12/24 at 4:06 pm to brmark70816
quote:
Ingram was our 3rd or 4th best player last year. We just added a new 2nd. He's moving out of that top 5 pretty soon..
Look, I get most of you are ready to move on from BI, and even I am, but when you say stupid shite like this you just look like a complete moron. You can show your dislike for BI while still being realistic.
Posted on 8/12/24 at 5:39 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Look, I get most of you are ready to move on from BI, and even I am, but when you say stupid shite like this you just look like a complete moron. You can show your dislike for BI while still being realistic.
McCollum was better by any measure last year. Seriously prove me wrong.
Jones was 1st team all defense. If we put him on the market, we'd get double what we'd get from Ingram (same with Murphy).
The problem isn't with me. It's a bunch of fan boys that can't get over their infatuation and make the tough choices. They all love their guy and want him to work to the detriment of the team. Its simple to me. They are fans of Ingram. I'm a fan of the Pelicans. You can't really be both..
Posted on 8/12/24 at 5:49 pm to brmark70816
You are so closed minded and unrealistic that it would be pointless to try to "prove you wrong".
Posted on 8/12/24 at 5:54 pm to TeddyPadillac
Then why respond? Take a lap..
Posted on 8/12/24 at 6:22 pm to brmark70816
quote:
McCollum was better by any measure last year. Seriously prove me wrong.
Ingram had a better PER and is a better defender.
quote:
Jones was 1st team all defense. If we put him on the market, we'd get double what we'd get from Ingram (same with Murphy).
That's far more due to their contract situations and you know that.
quote:
They are fans of Ingram. I'm a fan of the Pelicans. You can't really be both..
Bullllllllshit
Posted on 8/12/24 at 6:25 pm to whatiknowsofar
quote:
They are fans of Ingram. I'm a fan of the Pelicans. You can't really be both..
Posted on 8/12/24 at 9:14 pm to whatiknowsofar
quote:
Ingram had a better PER and is a better defender.
I don't care about PER, but if you want to hang your hat on a difference of .3 then there you go.
They both suck on defense. McCollum tries though, even given his limited physical traits.
quote:
That's far more due to their contract situations and you know that.
Lame excuse. I never see this used in any other player debate. You might as well just say that Ingram is obviously overpaid. So teams would rather pay less. That doesn't work for any other Superstar. Would you rather Giannis or Banchero? No GM is picking Banchero cause he's cheaper.
quote:
Bullllllllshit
It's a fact. If you are obviously rooting for Ingram to get a deal that negatively impacts the team in the future and hamstrings them from making other moves, how are you supporting the team? You should want players playing on team friendly deals, that are easily movable while making the team as successful as possible. That's being a fan of the team..
Posted on 8/12/24 at 10:40 pm to brmark70816
quote:With an absolutely ignorant comment like that, you have shown your truly outrageous bias.
I'm a fan of the Pelicans. You can't really be both..
Posted on 8/13/24 at 5:13 am to brmark70816
quote:
They both suck on defense. McCollum tries though, even given his limited physical traits.
Did you even watch any games last year? Ingram is a far better defender than CJ.
Posted on 8/13/24 at 5:14 am to brmark70816
quote:
You should want players playing on team friendly deals, that are easily movable while making the team as successful as possible. That's being a fan of the team..
Do you want to win games or trades?
Posted on 8/13/24 at 5:59 am to Galactic Inquisitor
quote:
Did you even watch any games last year? Ingram is a far better defender than CJ.
They both are below average defenders. Given Ingrams physical gifts, he should be light years beyond. Being better (which isn't by much) isn't a high bar.
quote:
Do you want to win games or trades?
I want to do both. I want the team to be successful for a long time. I don't care for short term sacrifices to make a desperate run at relevance. Small market teams do not stay competitive by making bad deals or signing inflated contracts. The team always comes first for me..
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