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Michael Jordan is the Greatest of All Time...
Posted on 2/2/19 at 2:50 pm
Posted on 2/2/19 at 2:50 pm
because he made those around him champions. He and Scottie Pippen were the two constant variables on multiple championship teams. In the middle of the Lakers-Celtics 80's, with a couple of very good Pistons years, and some very consistent Trailblazers teams, Jordan made champions of those around him. He didn't team up with Magic, Bird, Thomas, or Drexler. He beat them all. He set the tone, he set the lead, and others followed. That's why he is the greatest to ever play.
Am I right, or has the game simply changed?
Or does management play a larger role than I am acknowledging?
Am I right, or has the game simply changed?
Or does management play a larger role than I am acknowledging?
This post was edited on 2/2/19 at 2:53 pm
6
Posted on 2/2/19 at 2:53 pm to sertorius
The talent came to him.
Posted on 2/2/19 at 2:59 pm to sertorius
He's the greatest, but this argument is not why.
If the Knicks would have signed Dominque and John Stockton to pair with what they already had, they would have crushed the Jordan Bulls and he would have had to team up with others to beat them.
No single player in NBA history, with marginal help, could beat these Warriors. Cavs beat them, but if Draymond isn't suspended for Game 5, that is a 4-1 Golden State series. KD almost did but he had Westbrook and bigs playing at a high level that year. Harden almost did with CP3 last year.
But the point is that its dumb to act like any guy could do it himself. Zion will be amazing, but he will need help. And if the Pels get lucky enough to get that kid, they need to build around him correctly or he will leave too.
If the Knicks would have signed Dominque and John Stockton to pair with what they already had, they would have crushed the Jordan Bulls and he would have had to team up with others to beat them.
No single player in NBA history, with marginal help, could beat these Warriors. Cavs beat them, but if Draymond isn't suspended for Game 5, that is a 4-1 Golden State series. KD almost did but he had Westbrook and bigs playing at a high level that year. Harden almost did with CP3 last year.
But the point is that its dumb to act like any guy could do it himself. Zion will be amazing, but he will need help. And if the Pels get lucky enough to get that kid, they need to build around him correctly or he will leave too.
Posted on 2/2/19 at 2:59 pm to Nonetheless
Nonetheless,
I guess you're adding Horace Grant and B.J. Armstrong to the list? Paxson-Kerr, Cartwright-Longley, etc. are interchangeable.
I guess you're adding Horace Grant and B.J. Armstrong to the list? Paxson-Kerr, Cartwright-Longley, etc. are interchangeable.
Posted on 2/2/19 at 3:10 pm to sertorius
Zion - watched him again today, honestly, can't see NYK giving that pick up.
Posted on 2/2/19 at 3:20 pm to FMtTXtiger
quote:
Zion - watched him again today, honestly, can't see NYK giving that pick up.
I don't either. Is that really a thing or just something people are speculating about?
Posted on 2/2/19 at 3:22 pm to sertorius
Rodman doesn’t count? One of the most decorated defensive players of all time and a rebounding machine, he had been a multi year all star and defensive mvp twice before joining Jordan
Posted on 2/2/19 at 3:25 pm to brmark70816
It depends. If KD says: “get AD and I’ll sign there” then Nyk is trading that pick with the quickness.
KD + AD >>>>>>>> Zion
KD + AD >>>>>>>> Zion
Posted on 2/2/19 at 3:26 pm to FMtTXtiger
quote:
Zion - watched him again today, honestly, can't see NYK giving that pick up.
They cleared 2 max slots for a reason. Jimmy Butler basically wore out his welcome/decided it was time to go on 2 teams because he was pissed at the young guys not being ready to contribute. The first thing LeBron did when he went back to Cleveland was trade Wiggins for a veteran star. If you really think max level veteran stars are going to come to New York to play with a rookie y'all aren't paying attention.
I think the odds are high that the Knicks miss in Free Agency again and have to rebuild around a rookie, but if they do it won't be Zion, because if they get Zion they are trading him for AD to attract Kyrie/KD/Klay/etc
This post was edited on 2/2/19 at 3:27 pm
Posted on 2/2/19 at 3:35 pm to sertorius
quote:Do you mean controls?
two constant variables on multiple championship teams
Posted on 2/2/19 at 3:51 pm to Jamohn
Don't know what you mean by "controls," but I think that "constant" speaks for itself.
Michael had already won 3 titles by the time Rodman arrived.
With one other All-Star, unless Grant and Armstrong are considered of that caliber.
Michael had already won 3 titles by the time Rodman arrived.
With one other All-Star, unless Grant and Armstrong are considered of that caliber.
Posted on 2/2/19 at 4:12 pm to sertorius
Okay, after 4 downvotes, an "its dumb" to think that comment, and a linguistics concern, I can only conclude that I'm right. I don't think, however, that it's that simple. So I'll play "devil's advocate."
Jordan may indeed be the greatest ever, but he had some notable help.
Scottie Pippen was not only the perfect defensive and transition complement to Jordan, he also provided a necessary component of running the triangle offense. Effective aspects of the offense include an effective outside shooter, and a reliable "big man." The forward's role as a defensive force is also important. Finally, the steady balanced coaching that allowed the system to evolve and flourish cannot be overstated. And so, while Jordan may indeed be the greatest ever, all the pieces fell into place for him. Scottie Pippen, the offense, the coach, and all the role players that were essential to the team's success.
This is probably laughable to knowledgeable basketball coaches, since I don't really know the game, but I was just hoping for a good argument. I always think Jordan is the best, because I know what I saw. I am subjective though.
Jordan may indeed be the greatest ever, but he had some notable help.
Scottie Pippen was not only the perfect defensive and transition complement to Jordan, he also provided a necessary component of running the triangle offense. Effective aspects of the offense include an effective outside shooter, and a reliable "big man." The forward's role as a defensive force is also important. Finally, the steady balanced coaching that allowed the system to evolve and flourish cannot be overstated. And so, while Jordan may indeed be the greatest ever, all the pieces fell into place for him. Scottie Pippen, the offense, the coach, and all the role players that were essential to the team's success.
This is probably laughable to knowledgeable basketball coaches, since I don't really know the game, but I was just hoping for a good argument. I always think Jordan is the best, because I know what I saw. I am subjective though.
Posted on 2/2/19 at 8:02 pm to sertorius
LeBron James is the best individual basketball player ever.
Posted on 2/2/19 at 9:06 pm to WhySoSerious
The Bulls went to ECF without MJ. Now look at the 18-19 Cavs without James.
Posted on 2/2/19 at 11:17 pm to ErikGordan
quote:
The Bulls went to ECF without MJ. Now look at the 18-19 Cavs without James
Exactly. Look at the Cavs 06-07 roster that he took to the finals. It’s incredible.
Posted on 2/2/19 at 11:45 pm to ErikGordan
Same team, with a 1st round pick.
Posted on 2/3/19 at 8:20 am to ErikGordan
ErikGordan,
Right - I get that, and it's a great argument. But what if I countered with the fact that Jordan's influence on playing basketball in a system, competitively, at the highest level, had such an impact on his teammates that B.J. Armstrong became not only a leader on the team but an All-Star in his absence. Take Jordan away, and having had his influence, they are better than before. Take Lebron away, and his presence was prominent, but his influence was less so.
Just asking.
Right - I get that, and it's a great argument. But what if I countered with the fact that Jordan's influence on playing basketball in a system, competitively, at the highest level, had such an impact on his teammates that B.J. Armstrong became not only a leader on the team but an All-Star in his absence. Take Jordan away, and having had his influence, they are better than before. Take Lebron away, and his presence was prominent, but his influence was less so.
Just asking.
Posted on 2/3/19 at 6:18 pm to WhySoSerious
LeBron never won shite w/o substantial help from other superstars. Enough said
Posted on 2/4/19 at 6:46 pm to Nonetheless
I'm gonna create 10 additional accounts on TD just to downvote this more....once ISNT enough
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