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re: Lonzo Ball is now at 40% from 3. Check in here to eat crow. I am.
Posted on 2/24/21 at 4:13 pm to lovepurplelivegold14
Posted on 2/24/21 at 4:13 pm to lovepurplelivegold14
quote:
Going forwards the ball will be in Ingram's and Zion's hands. So the fact that Lonzo can't drive won't be as big as Zion/Ingram grow as playmakers/ slashers. Also Lonzo's role is important.
You can’t live off having only two players that create shots.
We just beat the Celtics in large part because the same problem they have had all year popped up Sunday, they don’t have that third playmaker that can alleviate pressure off their two stars. Kemba was supposed to be that guy but his ability as a playmaker has just fallen off a cliff.
So it then begs the question I’ve been asking, if we aren’t going to be valuing Lonzo as more than a 3 and D guy, why are we talking about absolutely paying him third star money?
quote:
If he comes at the right price we keep him, if he's expensive we may can work a sign and trade.
And that is where I am at. The thread is seemingly just about what we think that ceiling should be, and I’m in the 15-18 range that I’d feel comfortable with. And I’d need to see more convincing growth in a few areas before I’d be cool adjusting that upwards.
This post was edited on 2/24/21 at 4:15 pm
1
Posted on 2/24/21 at 4:20 pm to Bronc
Can we all just agree that the sky isn't falling and we're not totally fricked if we give him 4/80 and call it a day?
This post was edited on 2/24/21 at 4:21 pm
Posted on 2/24/21 at 4:25 pm to whatiknowsofar
I mean depends on the context.
If he plays to his season averages thus far to the end of the season, let alone if we forgo someone like Hart to do it, I wouldn’t be happy with the contract. Capping the team out to make Lonzo our third star. Worse if we see any regression.
That’s why I think this thread is so active, this is sort of a pretty critical period for the franchise.
Potentially committing 20+ million to Lonzo could be the beginning of something special or be our biggest misstep. And that’s why there is seemingly a lot of focus involved.
If he plays to his season averages thus far to the end of the season, let alone if we forgo someone like Hart to do it, I wouldn’t be happy with the contract. Capping the team out to make Lonzo our third star. Worse if we see any regression.
That’s why I think this thread is so active, this is sort of a pretty critical period for the franchise.
Potentially committing 20+ million to Lonzo could be the beginning of something special or be our biggest misstep. And that’s why there is seemingly a lot of focus involved.
This post was edited on 2/24/21 at 4:26 pm
Posted on 2/24/21 at 4:27 pm to Bronc
quote:
let alone if we forgo someone like Hart to do it, I wouldn’t be happy with the contract. Capping the team out to make Lonzo our third star.
I'd have to think Bledsoe is gone if we do, and I'm not a cap guy, but jj coming off the books with Bledsoe should allow us to keep Hart for the mle right?
Posted on 2/24/21 at 4:38 pm to whatiknowsofar
I would have to sit down and look, but the thread I made yesterday said 20 million in practical space. So 20 to Lonzo would mean we’d basically be at the cap unless you can move Bledsoe, which I’m not sure of unless you want to pay to get rid of him.
Hart seems like he has or is pretty close to playing himself out of the MLE. Meaning he’s gonna get a better offer than that.
I’m telling people, like I tried to warn about Wood as a prospect, Hart is a successful offseason with Vinson away from being a prime Danny Green/Wesley Mathews in this league.
And it’s bizarre to me the amount of people when I say this that often will
In a separate breathe simultaneously praise Zion, Ingram, Lonzo, AD, Gordon, Evans, and the rest for Vinson’s work improving their shot, but dismiss the idea a guy who really wants to work with him in Josh Hart, could find similar success and become one of the most valuable two way glue guys in the league.
Frankly at this point I have 100% more confidence in Hart becoming a good three point shooter if we commit to him than Lonzo developing into an above average playmaker and driver in the half court. I think it’s in both of them to do it, but gun to my head Hart would have my money if I had to bet on one or the other developing out their current weakness we need them to improve.
Hart seems like he has or is pretty close to playing himself out of the MLE. Meaning he’s gonna get a better offer than that.
I’m telling people, like I tried to warn about Wood as a prospect, Hart is a successful offseason with Vinson away from being a prime Danny Green/Wesley Mathews in this league.
And it’s bizarre to me the amount of people when I say this that often will
In a separate breathe simultaneously praise Zion, Ingram, Lonzo, AD, Gordon, Evans, and the rest for Vinson’s work improving their shot, but dismiss the idea a guy who really wants to work with him in Josh Hart, could find similar success and become one of the most valuable two way glue guys in the league.
Frankly at this point I have 100% more confidence in Hart becoming a good three point shooter if we commit to him than Lonzo developing into an above average playmaker and driver in the half court. I think it’s in both of them to do it, but gun to my head Hart would have my money if I had to bet on one or the other developing out their current weakness we need them to improve.
This post was edited on 2/24/21 at 4:45 pm
Posted on 2/24/21 at 6:02 pm to whatiknowsofar
If we had productive draft picks playing on rookie deals, Lonzo’s deal at $20 mil is mostly an afterthought.
This fanbase has craved tangible improvement from a young gun for years, but all we can talk about is the pressure to not frick this up. Operating in the unknown is scary for most. Even if only one of NAW, Hayes or Kira (excusable) showed any semblance of being a dog, Ball would be easier to swallow
Of course when he gets traded for another flawed talent or draft pick that busts, the narrative will be man, we should’ve kept that Ball fella
This fanbase has craved tangible improvement from a young gun for years, but all we can talk about is the pressure to not frick this up. Operating in the unknown is scary for most. Even if only one of NAW, Hayes or Kira (excusable) showed any semblance of being a dog, Ball would be easier to swallow
Of course when he gets traded for another flawed talent or draft pick that busts, the narrative will be man, we should’ve kept that Ball fella
Posted on 2/24/21 at 6:33 pm to GynoSandberg
I think the question we need to ask ourselves will be:
Will giving Lonzo a 20mil contract be crippling or limit you from getting contributors. As it stands, he is a solid contributor and as long as he can shoot this near 40% clip, you gotta think it's a net positive for a growing team.
Will giving Lonzo a 20mil contract be crippling or limit you from getting contributors. As it stands, he is a solid contributor and as long as he can shoot this near 40% clip, you gotta think it's a net positive for a growing team.
Posted on 2/24/21 at 9:40 pm to htran90
Another solid game for Lonzo. Highest +/- on the team, 40% from 3.
Posted on 2/25/21 at 7:17 am to GynoSandberg
quote:
If we had productive draft picks playing on rookie deals, Lonzo’s deal at $20 mil is mostly an afterthought.
I agree, and why i am somewhat ok giving him 4/$80. If Kira becomes a legit starting PG, then it'll be alright. It would be even better if NAW can turn into a legit bench scorer, but that's a tough ask.
Posted on 2/25/21 at 8:37 am to GynoSandberg
quote:
Of course when he gets traded for another flawed talent or draft pick
this is why it's not an easy discussion
i 100% see the worry with an overpay, but if we trade him (or worse, lose him for nothing), how do we replace him?
the only people trying to create solutions to that are proposing bad ideas (like a non-jrue holiday brother or tim hardaway jr)
Posted on 2/25/21 at 8:58 am to htran90
quote:
Will giving Lonzo a 20mil contract be crippling.
Nope
quote:
or limit you from getting contributors.
Possibly, but that can be said of any non-minimum contract. It's always a matter of how much it limits you. By the time we need to resign Zion, Adams and Bledsoe will be expired. Reddick expires this year.
At this point, I'd much rather Lonzo at $20M than Bledsoe at $20M, which is about where he'll be in 2 years. He only has $3.9M guaranteed in 22-23, though.
Posted on 2/25/21 at 9:26 am to Bronc
quote:I can't believe anyone took Hart serious when he made that comment. There is no way that the shooting coach tells Hart that he does not have time to work with him. I have seen previous shooting coaches working with end of bench players routinely, so it would be hard to believe that someone like Hart is told that Vinson will not work with him.
In a separate breathe simultaneously praise Zion, Ingram, Lonzo, AD, Gordon, Evans, and the rest for Vinson’s work improving their shot, but dismiss the idea a guy who really wants to work with him in Josh Hart, could find similar success and become one of the most valuable two way glue guys in the league.
Posted on 2/25/21 at 9:47 am to NOSHAU
On one of JJ’s latest pods, he and Randle were talking about Vinson. And Randle said he couldn’t get time with Vinson bc Lonzo took up all his time.
Kevin Hanson was the assistant he worked with
Kevin Hanson was the assistant he worked with
Posted on 2/25/21 at 10:26 am to NOSHAU
quote:
I can't believe anyone took Hart serious when he made that comment. There is no way that the shooting coach tells Hart that he does not have time to work with him. I have seen previous shooting coaches working with end of bench players routinely, so it would be hard to believe that someone like Hart is told that Vinson will not work with him.
In a normal offseason, i would lean towards how you're thinking.
Posted on 2/25/21 at 10:37 am to GynoSandberg
quote:Randle and Ball did not play together with the Pelicans. Hanson was also the coach who worked with the bigs.
On one of JJ’s latest pods, he and Randle were talking about Vinson. And Randle said he couldn’t get time with Vinson bc Lonzo took up all his time.
Kevin Hanson was the assistant he worked with
Posted on 2/25/21 at 10:44 am to NOSHAU
It didn't sound like a joke. Maybe the limitations were coming more from Josh's schedule than Vinson's, because I definitely can see the team expecting Vinson to make himself available to players like you're saying. But maybe Josh only wanted to work within 2 hours before or after practice and that's when Vinson was already booked with Zion/Ingram/Lonzo?
Posted on 2/25/21 at 10:53 am to NOSHAU
quote:
Randle and Ball did not play together with the Pelicans. Hanson was also the coach who worked with the bigs.
AD, not Ball
Posted on 2/25/21 at 11:53 am to Bronc
quote:
Frankly at this point I have 100% more confidence in Hart becoming a good three point shooter if we commit to him than Lonzo developing into an above average playmaker and driver in the half court. I think it’s in both of them to do it, but gun to my head Hart would have my money if I had to bet on one or the other developing out their current weakness we need them to improve.
Really the only people seeming to be down on Lonzo are some Pels fans. AD was gushing on him after the game when in reality they didn’t have to make a big deal about his play.
Stan made a big deal to talk about Lonzo in the press conference.
The national broadcasters made a big deal to talk about Lonzo’s game.
quote:
I would have to sit down and look, but the thread I made yesterday said 20 million in practical space. So 20 to Lonzo would mean we’d basically be at the cap unless you can move Bledsoe, which I’m not sure of unless you want to pay to get rid of him.
Hart seems like he has or is pretty close to playing himself out of the MLE. Meaning he’s gonna get a better offer than that.
I believe we will be able to pay these guys what we want. We have bird rights on both Ball and Hart. We obviously don’t want to get in a tax situation, but that is it.
Posted on 2/25/21 at 12:11 pm to Colonel Flagg
quote:
AD was gushing on him after the game
To be fair, I think he defaults to gushing on Lonzo when he does anything of note. It sometimes feels like he is trying to overcompensate for criticism Lonzo gets.
Posted on 2/25/21 at 12:12 pm to TotesMcGotes
quote:
It sometimes feels like he is trying to overcompensate for criticism Lonzo gets.
All the time.
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