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Message
re: Jrue Holiday is finished in New Orleans
Posted on 2/2/20 at 6:52 pm to shel311
Posted on 2/2/20 at 6:52 pm to shel311
quote:
In all honesty, using the GS injuries is disingenuous imo and I'd argue that's you reaching.
Sure, it is correct. But that was a once in a lifetime team, a team we won't see again. Point being, Toronto was good enough to win a title in any "normal" year with Lowry as their 3rd best player. Jrue is better than Lowry, so...
Klay and Durant going down, two top ten players, altering the course of that series is me reaching? Lol GTFO.
I respect the hell out of what Toronto built, but a lot of things had to go right for that perfect storm to hit the way it did.
The best argument you might have is there is currently no GS to make another Toronto impossible, but Bi and Zion have a decent way to go and by that point Jrue will be 2-3 years older than Lowry was as the Raptors 3rd wheel. On a crippling end of career last payday contract
This post was edited on 2/2/20 at 6:53 pm
1
Posted on 2/2/20 at 6:56 pm to PelsForLife
quote:Lowry was the 3rd option on a title team last season at $31mil
The thing is, you don't pay a 3rd option on the team 25M+ salary...
Posted on 2/2/20 at 6:58 pm to Bronc
quote:You're correct, that absolutely helped TOR win, but you completely missed my point.
Klay and Durant going down, two top ten players, altering the course of that series is me reaching? Lol GTFO.
You're basically arguing that Toronto wasn't good enough to beat the best team of all time therefore your point is proven. You do realize that is your exact argument, right?
Like I said, TOR was good enough to win a title against normal contending teams that aren't all time greats, and that alone, proves your point wrong IMO.
quote:Right, but in reality, all that had to happen was them not facing the best team of all time.
I respect the hell out of what Toronto built, but a lot of things had to go right for that perfect storm to hit the way it did.
quote:That's exact the argument. If the GOAT team didn't exist, Toronto was absolutely good enough to win. And again, that alone proves your argument wrong.
The best argument you might have is there is currently no GS to make another Toronto impossible
Posted on 2/2/20 at 7:01 pm to shel311
Not when you're not contending for a title. Siakam was the 3rd option btw and he was a gem in the rough.
Posted on 2/2/20 at 7:01 pm to shel311
We don’t have a Toronto team and will not in the next 2 years.
that would require one of BI or Zion becoming the best two way player in the game and the other being top 20 during the run with a veteran cast that is perfectly complimentary and some serious luck like the Philly series.
Your argument continues to be that if we can just be this perfect type of team Jrue can be our third option instead of just accepting the much more feasible path is to upgrade from Jrue or find a better third wheel so Jrue can slide into the fourth slot.
that would require one of BI or Zion becoming the best two way player in the game and the other being top 20 during the run with a veteran cast that is perfectly complimentary and some serious luck like the Philly series.
Your argument continues to be that if we can just be this perfect type of team Jrue can be our third option instead of just accepting the much more feasible path is to upgrade from Jrue or find a better third wheel so Jrue can slide into the fourth slot.
This post was edited on 2/2/20 at 7:02 pm
Posted on 2/2/20 at 7:03 pm to PelsForLife
quote:Nah
Siakam was the 3rd option btw
Siakam averaged 16 shots per game in the playoffs, Lowry 11.6.
Posted on 2/2/20 at 7:03 pm to shel311
I think he can be, but a 3rd option can't take over the offense when the top options are on the court. Jrue taking contested pull up 3's early in the shot clock when zion and BI are on the court is a net negative in my opinion. If he can actually play as a 3rd fiddle then he's perfect.
This post was edited on 2/2/20 at 7:05 pm
Posted on 2/2/20 at 7:06 pm to Bronc
quote:If you believe our core is good enough to be a title core, there is no reason to believe we can't be a contender 2 seasons from now.
We don’t have a Toronto team and will not in the next 2 years.
Elite dudes usually hit their stride in year 3, and obviously Zion is ahead of a normal schedule, so BI and Zion will be elite 2 seasons from now. Zo will be in year 5.
quote:You don't think BI and Zion will avg 20+ in 2 seasons? Pretty sure they're both over 20+ right now.
that would require one of BI or Zion becoming the best two way player in the game and the other being top 20 during the run
quote:Why is this not possible?
with a veteran cast that is perfectly complimentary
quote:i'm ok with trading Jrue this offseason, but I am pointing out that the reasons some of you want to trade him are not correct.
Your argument continues to be that if we can just be this perfect type of team Jrue can be our third option instead of just accepting the much more feasible path is to upgrade from Jrue or find a better third wheel so Jrue can slide into the fourth slot.
Posted on 2/2/20 at 7:07 pm to Elleshoe
quote:
He’s not the leader. He’s not the second best player. He may not be the third or fourth best. Try to move him
This is stupid.
Since coming back from injury he’s averaging 22 pts, 4 rbs, 6 asts, 2 stls, 2 blks, on 50% shooting, and we all know what kind of defender he is.
These Jrue posts are so stupid. Dude plays great, then one bad game or one bad late game situation and all the idiots come out.
Posted on 2/2/20 at 7:07 pm to Elleshoe
quote:
He’s not the leader. He’s not the second best player. He may not be the third or fourth best. Try to move him
Are yall going to make the same Jrue/Lonzo sucks and trade Jrue/Lonzo threads after every single loss?
We definitely need a Mod for this board
Posted on 2/2/20 at 7:08 pm to Bronc
For those that suggest Jrue as 3rd option isnt good enough, who should we replace him with? And how?
I personally think he is a great 3rd option. The question is do we have a strong enough 1 and 2? Most of us think we will within 3 years...will Jrue be a good enough 3 WHEN our 1 and 2 are good enough?
I personally think he is a great 3rd option. The question is do we have a strong enough 1 and 2? Most of us think we will within 3 years...will Jrue be a good enough 3 WHEN our 1 and 2 are good enough?
Posted on 2/2/20 at 7:09 pm to CP3forMVP
quote:Think about virtually every single anti-Jrue post in this thread...they all focus on offense only.
Since coming back from injury he’s averaging 22 pts, 4 rbs, 6 asts, 2 stls, 2 blks, on 50% shooting, and we all know what kind of defender he is.
None of those posts want to recognize that Jrue is one of the best defenders in the league. We're already a shite defense, we'd likely be worst in the league the rest of the season if we moved him, or close to it.
Posted on 2/2/20 at 7:10 pm to lil 7thward
quote:
The Jrue lovers will call you an idiot. We are not allowed to tell the truth about Jrue's game here.
Where were these threads when Jrue was killing it the last 3 games. Jrue is an excellent complimentary player. Maybe we should stop expecting him to be a top 20 player. I am aware that part of it is Griffin selling Jrue as such, but the truth is he is not the main guy in an offense
Posted on 2/2/20 at 7:11 pm to shel311
I agree Jrue is the best guard defender in the league, which was why i was baffled as to why they never put him on harden.
Posted on 2/2/20 at 7:13 pm to Macintosh
quote:
This is my biggest issue with him. His game and Ingram’s are too similar with ball dominant type play. You can’t have them together PLUS Zion as another guy who needs to ball in his hand and is an easy bucket.
Zion doesn't need the ball to create his offense. A hood offense needs multiple guys that can create off the dribble. BI and Jrue are really the only guys that fit that mode for this team. Zion will get there but it is too early to task him with that challenge
Posted on 2/2/20 at 7:31 pm to cajun_tiger
quote:
contested pull up 3's early in the shot clock when zion and BI are on the court is a net negative in my opinion
He rarely does this
Posted on 2/3/20 at 12:25 am to Elleshoe
quote:
He’s not the leader. He’s not the second best player. He may not be the third or fourth best. Try to move him
He’s a leader, if not the example.
He’s at times our second best player but he is a tone setter.
This team should be running through Ingram.
I’d like to see Zion as the BallHandler with Ingram in a Pick N Pop/Slip action( with Jrue/Moore, JJ/Hart, Favors/Melli as options) to create space with those 2. Basically the inversion of some action we’ve seen.
Posted on 2/3/20 at 3:23 am to Chalkywhite84
quote:
I sort of agree
You have to choose one
This. Zo is just a better fit for BI and Zion and will be going forward. Jrue was great when we needed that Alpha dog that could take over when AD couldn’t and he helped us a lot back then. But he just doesn’t fit with the DNA of this team. Moving him and his contract this summer will free up some much needed cap space.
Jrue is a ball dominant two guard, and despite some of Zo’s lazy turnovers, the offense works better with him because he isn’t worried about him. He’s trying to get BI and Zion in the best positions. Jrue loses sight of that sometimes and tries to be more than what he is. It’s time to move him and try and find a young shooter like Herro
Posted on 2/3/20 at 4:43 am to shel311
quote:
If you believe our core is good enough to be a title core, there is no reason to believe we can't be a contender 2 seasons from now.
No, I don’t think this team is only two seasons away from a championship with this current core. This is a young team, not a mostly savvy veteran squad like the Raptors with the best player in the game leading a miracle season. Your comparison continues to be incredibly unrealistic and borders on magical thinking.
And if you are conceding a willingness to trade Jrue, I’m not sure why you continue to argue this point as it would seem implicitly your don’t even buy your own argument?
Posted on 2/3/20 at 4:54 am to Milesahead
quote:
For those that suggest Jrue as 3rd option isnt good enough, who should we replace him with? And how?
I personally think he is a great 3rd option. The question is do we have a strong enough 1 and 2? Most of us think we will within 3 years...will Jrue be a good enough 3 WHEN our 1 and 2 are good enough?
Your last part is the other issue here. If we think BI enters his prime at 25 you are looking at a 33 year old Jrue. If we are talking about Zion and BI in their prime you are talking about a mid thirties Jrue. His offensive game more than many is reliant upon athleticism, slashing and driving, but he is posed to be paid through that period like a first or second option.
I think we see the early framework of who Jrue could be a good trade partner with, Miami being the primary suspect. I still say Beal is the Pels to lose if they want to make the move there and you could easily see a three way trade that involves all three and achieves what each organization is looking for. Pels get younger and arguably better as Beal finds a team he feels he can compete with, Washington gets the foundation for their rebuild with a mix of picks and assets, Miami gets Jrue Holiday to form their final grit and grind identity.
Truth is the Pels are better positioned than almost anyone to get the next disgruntled superstar. So that concern worries me very little.
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