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Started By
Message
re: I’m terrified BI is on this team next year.
Posted on 6/20/24 at 4:20 pm to TeddyPadillac
Posted on 6/20/24 at 4:20 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:Fit
Why is it BI that has to go out to "not run it back"?
Explore moving CJ.
BI's pending extension
The ability to use CJ to trade for the next guy or create space as needed
1
Posted on 6/20/24 at 9:27 pm to shel311
Can you explain why B doesn't fit? Is it based upon some stats or your eyes?
Posted on 6/21/24 at 9:07 am to SaintEB
I’ll just go on the record by saying I don’t see a way to bring more talent into the building by trading away Ingram.
Pels resign BI
Pels Trade McCollum and draft compensation to Detroit for Ivey and Duren
Starting 5: Ivey-Jones-Murphy-Ingram-Zion
Depth: Hawkins, Daniels, Duren, Ryan, Nance Jr.
Zion & Ingram playing up, to me creates a mismatch that most teams aren’t prepared to handle. Finding the right pieces around those two players is the challenge of this offseason.
.
Pels resign BI
Pels Trade McCollum and draft compensation to Detroit for Ivey and Duren
Starting 5: Ivey-Jones-Murphy-Ingram-Zion
Depth: Hawkins, Daniels, Duren, Ryan, Nance Jr.
Zion & Ingram playing up, to me creates a mismatch that most teams aren’t prepared to handle. Finding the right pieces around those two players is the challenge of this offseason.
.
This post was edited on 6/21/24 at 9:10 am
Posted on 6/21/24 at 9:21 am to Don Pel
quote:
Pels Trade McCollum and draft compensation to Detroit for Ivey and Duren
Wait what? Why on Earth would the Pistons trade Duren and Ivey for old arse CJ and picks?
Posted on 6/21/24 at 9:22 am to ErikGordan
quote:
Can you explain why B doesn't fit? Is it based upon some stats or your eyes?
He lives in the midrange clogging up driving lanes for Zion. He doesn't shoot 3s and neither does Zion so we need a No. 2 who does.
Posted on 6/21/24 at 9:47 am to ghost2most
For veteran leadership duh!
It’s not like any of the trades proposed on this board will come to fruition.
CJ would be a better running mate for Cade than Ivey and the Pels could use a table setter around their stars. Which is the basic premise around a NO-DET trade.
It’s not like any of the trades proposed on this board will come to fruition.
CJ would be a better running mate for Cade than Ivey and the Pels could use a table setter around their stars. Which is the basic premise around a NO-DET trade.
Posted on 6/21/24 at 9:52 am to Pels_Yaz
quote:
Because technically you have 2 star guys (BI and Zion) who live in the paint.
One of them lives in the paint.
The other is capable of not living in the paint. Give him a PG and get him off the ball and i think his shot selection gets better. BI dribbling the ball up the court, or getting the first pass and then waiting for the offensive set to play isn't a good offensive strategy. BI isn't a PG.
quote:
I’m ok moving CJ but in reality he fits Zion better.
In what way? b/c he shoots 3's? Trey can do that. So can Hawkins.
CJ cannot be our #2 scorer behind Zion. We aren't winning anythign like that. I agree he's a great #3 to have on this team, but he also needs to be the ONLY weak spot defensively if he's on the court. That means if CJ stays and BI goes out, then we have to get an actual PG who can score better than CJ, and also play good defense against opposing teams 2nd best perimeter player. CJ isn't a PG, and can't play D.
I do think Murray helps fix that, but if you bring in Murray and keep CJ, Trey stays on the bench. I'm ok with that as long as he's closing games, but CJ in the small ball lineup will get hunted and taken advantage of late in games, so i dont' really care for a Murray/CJ/Herb/Trey/Zion small ball lineup.
CJ as the #3 only works with a good scoring PG, and a good defensive 5 like Allen, and I just don't see that team (Murray/CJ/Herb/Zion/Allen with Trey off the bench), being better than Murray/Herb/BI/Trey/Zion, especially if Hawkins takes a step up and can knock down 3's off the bench.
Posted on 6/21/24 at 10:17 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Give him a PG and get him off the ball and i think his shot selection gets better. BI dribbling the ball up the court, or getting the first pass and then waiting for the offensive set to play isn't a good offensive strategy. BI isn't a PG.
No. This is exactly the problem. Why can’t the dude like any other wing in the NBA take 3s off the dribble. It shouldn’t be this difficult for him to take 3s. The litany of excuses of why he can’t take 3s is absolutely ridiculous. Now the issue is he can’t dribble the ball up the court AND take 3s- come on man.
quote:
CJ as the #3 only works with a good scoring PG, and a good defensive 5 like Allen, and I just don't see that team (Murray/CJ/Herb/Zion/Allen with Trey off the bench), being better than Murray/Herb/BI/Trey/Zion, especially if Hawkins takes a step up and can knock down 3's off the bench.
Not sure what you’re arguing here. To me CJ easily fits into Zions game. Sure Hawkins and Trey do what CJ do but that doesn’t negate CJ fitting on the team whether as a bench player or #3. You trade BI, the hope is you get the number #2 you need.
I’m not saying CJ can’t be traded. I’m just saying its easier to trade BI and find a better #2 than trading CJ who technically in the regular season did well with Zion as a number #3.
Posted on 6/21/24 at 10:24 am to Pels_Yaz
quote:
Not sure what you’re arguing here. To me CJ easily fits into Zions game. Sure Hawkins and Trey do what CJ do but that doesn’t negate CJ fitting on the team whether as a bench player or #3. You trade BI, the hope is you get the number #2 you need.
He fits with Zion, but only as a Catch & Shoot/Coming off screens shooter. When he is being relied on to facilitate the offense or be a secondary scoring option is when he doesn't fit.
CJ needs a playmaker around him to be his best self.
Posted on 6/21/24 at 11:02 am to Pels_Yaz
quote:
Why can’t the dude like any other wing in the NBA take 3s off the dribble
B/c it's typically not a great shot, and he shoots it at under 30% for his career. Why would he jack up 3's off the dribble, just to shoot more 3's, if he's not effecient at it?
C&S threes are good threes for 99% of players.
Pull up 3's are typically not.
BI Pull up 3's
2024 33.8%
2023 32.6%
2022 21.3%
2021 30.2%
2020 27.9%
His pull up 2's he shoots at 48%.
His turnaround fadeaway is at 52%.
50% on the most hated shot for all of you is still better than 30% for the shot you all want BI to take more of.
The off the dribble 3, or pull up 3 simply isn't a high percentage shot for most #1/2 scorers in the league.
Tatum:
34.9%
29.1%
33.4%
36.3%
Brown:
30.4%
31.8%
34.8%
31.3%
29.2%
Booker:
36.3%
30.9%
35.7%
30.8%
33.8%
Edwards:
33.4%
33.8%
32.5%
Murray:
42.4%
39.3%
39.1%
32.4%
Murray appears to be one of the best 3 point shooters off the dribble in the league, for a guy who's a scorer and not just a shooter.
CJ:
43.2%
35.6%
35.0%
36.7%
30.8%
Notice how CJ gets to be the 3rd option for the first time in his career and all of a sudden he becomes the best 3 point shooter in the league and doesn't take as many contested mid range jump shots like he used to.
quote:
Now the issue is he can’t dribble the ball up the court AND take 3s- come on man.
You mean the worst fricking shot in all of basketball, the dribble up the court jack up a 3 with zero passes?
I said he'd be better with a PG and have backed it up before with why. BI was in the 85th percentile in the league coming off screens as a scorer. he had a 60.4% eFG% off screens.
When BI takes 0, 1 or 2 dribbles and takes the hated mid range shot, he hits them at 59%.
3+ dribbles and that falls to 50%, but that does include getting to the rim, not just mid range shots.
But sure, lets tell him to jack up off the dribble 3's instead.
Do you not see how BI would benefit greatly from having an actual PG, something he hasn't had basically his whole career?
quote:
You trade BI, the hope is you get the number #2 you need.
well that is what i said.
quote:
I’m not saying CJ can’t be traded. I’m just saying its easier to trade BI and find a better #2
Is it though? who's this better than BI #2 we are goign after?
Posted on 6/21/24 at 11:12 am to LSUPilot07
If Bi comes back I’m gonna be the biggest hate watcher. You all have been warned
Posted on 6/21/24 at 11:28 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Do you not see how BI would benefit greatly from having an actual PG, something he hasn't had basically his whole career?
He had lonzo and jrue. I think you need to stop buying the BI excuses for his play. If your #2 needs another pg or player to set him up just to take 3s- he shouldn’t be your #2.
quote:
Is it though? who's this better than BI #2 we are goign after?
Dejounte, Trae, Garland- just depends who we can get. BI is not the answer.
And Im not paying BI loads of money to figure it out.
Posted on 6/21/24 at 11:40 am to Pels_Yaz
quote:
He had lonzo and jrue
Jrue is not a PG.
Lonzo was worthless in the half court. Just b/c he throw half court alley oops doesn't make him a PG.
quote:
If your #2 needs another pg or player to set him up just to take 3s- he shouldn’t be your #2.
Yeah i've been hollering this about Klay Thompson for 10 years now and no one seems to want to listen.
This makes no sense. If he didn't need some help, then he'd be a #1.
Not all scorers are created equally.
Swap Jaylen Brown for BI the last 4 years and we'd all want to trade him too b/c he'd be inefficient as well trying to be the leading scorer without a PG and a Zion who either doesn't play or is too fat to be the #1, b/c he's not a #1.
quote:
Dejounte, Trae, Garland- just depends who we can get. BI is not the answer.
Trae and Garland can't work with CJ, so if you're getting either of them, then BI and CJ are out. CJ cannot be the 2nd worst defender on the court, or we're in deep shite.
quote:
I think you need to stop buying the BI excuses for his play.
I've on board with trading him. I'm just not doing it for shits and giggles. Give me back a better player or i'm not doing it.
and i've given you many stats to show how he'd be better more off the ball.
This post was edited on 6/21/24 at 11:42 am
Posted on 6/21/24 at 12:02 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Jrue is not a PG. Lonzo was worthless in the half court. Just b/c he throw half court alley oops doesn't make him a PG.
Ok if you don’t consider those guys point guards. Good luck finding one.
quote:
Swap Jaylen Brown for BI the last 4 years and we'd all want to trade him too b/c he'd be inefficient as well trying to be the leading scorer without a PG and a Zion who either doesn't play or is too fat to be the #1, b/c he's not a #1.
No we wouldn’t. Jaylen Brown is a better basketball player than BI in so many ways. Hes a vocal leader, great defensive player, stepped up his scoring in clutch, and I would argue especially this postseason has been better than Tatum. Thats just a bad comparison.
quote:
Trae and Garland can't work with CJ, so if you're getting either of them, then BI and CJ are out. CJ cannot be the 2nd worst defender on the court, or we're in deep shite.
Agree. Cross that bridge when you come to it. But they’re both better number 2s than BI.
quote:
Give me back a better player or i'm not doing it.
Yeah I agree. We’ll see what Griffin does but there are better players or even fits out there than BI.
Plus you conveniently are ignoring he wants to be paid a max salary. I think thats a huge consideration as well.
Posted on 6/21/24 at 12:12 pm to Pels_Yaz
Some of you who think garland alone is a better #2 than Ingram, you are really going to be shocked.
To contend with the elite, you need to be able to match with them across the board.
Cj's size is a detriment to the team. So is our lack of a point guard and a center who's either elite defensively and for lobs or 3pt shooting.
If we trade Ingram with the intention to get a guard, the next step will be to move CJ as well. Either to the bench or to another team.
To contend with the elite, you need to be able to match with them across the board.
Cj's size is a detriment to the team. So is our lack of a point guard and a center who's either elite defensively and for lobs or 3pt shooting.
If we trade Ingram with the intention to get a guard, the next step will be to move CJ as well. Either to the bench or to another team.
Posted on 6/21/24 at 1:03 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
No we wouldn’t. Jaylen Brown is a better basketball player than BI in so many ways. Hes a vocal leader, great defensive player, stepped up his scoring in clutch, and I would argue especially this postseason has been better than Tatum. Thats just a bad comparison.
I don't disagree he's better, mainly b/c of his defense.
You just glossed over the entire point though. Jaylen Brown is a really good player, and yeah better than BI, BUT HE'S NOT A #1 PLAYER, AND WOULDN'T DO WELL AS A TEAMS #1!
quote:
Plus you conveniently are ignoring he wants to be paid a max salary. I think thats a huge consideration as well.
and you're right. I don't want to give him max money either. But i'd rather give him a bit under it than trade him for Jarrett Allen or some other package that doens't include a better #2.
I'm not argueing to keep him instead of trading him.
I"d move him in a heartbeat for a better player, i just don't know if that will happen.
And no i would not be happy if we bring him back at a max contract, but i also don't think tha'ts going to happen. BI signing a 4/$208M max extension isn't great. BI signing a 4/$192M extension is a lot better. If he's making $42M/yr in 2026, that isn't bad. The luxury tax line is going up $10M/yr for a few years going forward.
I also saw that if he were traded, he can't sign an extension with that team for 6 months until after the trade. If that's true, then I would imagine that does hurt his trade value a good bit. Even if there's a handshake agreement to sign one, anythign can happen in 6 months.
Posted on 6/21/24 at 1:08 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
BUT HE'S NOT A #1 PLAYER, AND WOULDN'T DO WELL AS A TEAMS #1!
He played better all postseason than Tatum and won Finals MVP. There is legit discussion if hes better than Tatum.
quote:
But i'd rather give him a bit under it than trade him for Jarrett Allen or some other package that doens't include a better #2.
I don’t think he’ll accept below max. I think this seems like a situation where we’re signing a player who rather be paid more. I just don’t see him agreeing to a deal under max.
Posted on 6/21/24 at 1:14 pm to htran90
quote:
j's size is a detriment to the team. So is our lack of a point guard and a center who's either elite defensively and for lobs or 3pt shooting.
If we trade Ingram with the intention to get a guard, the next step will be to move CJ as well. Either to the bench or to another team.
I do'n think many people realize this right here.
CJ is a good player, and can be a really good #3 for us, but it takes the right PG to make it work.
CJ cannot be the 2nd worst defensive player on the court. He has to be the worst.
CJ cannot be the #2 scorer behind Zion, and Trey isn't going to be a true #2, as he will be a great #3 just like CJ.
Garland/CJ/Herb will not work, and keeps Trey on the bench.
Darius Garland and BI would work a lot better, and you could play a small ball lineup with Garland/Herb/BI/Trey/Zion.
Trae Young and CJ will not work. Trae/Herb/Trey would work really well.
I don't know who the true #2 would be if you swapped BI for Dejounte, but i do know Dejounte would be getting the best perimeter defender from the opposing team, and is he capable of handling that? CJ can't handle that.
BI taking the best perimeter defender makes life easier for CJ and for Trey, and he's at least still capable of scoring on them most of the time, and i think would be even better at doing so if the offense was more geared towards his strengths playing off the ball.
Posted on 6/21/24 at 1:18 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
He played better all postseason than Tatum and won Finals MVP. There is legit discussion if hes better than Tatum.
good lord man. IT'S BECAUSE HE WASN'T THE PRIMARY FOCUS OF THE DEFENSE LIKE TATUM IS EVERY SINGLE GAME.
quote:
There is legit discussion if hes better than Tatum.
No there isn't, and i really like Jaylen Brown.
quote:
I don’t think he’ll accept below max.
maybe so, but i'm done trying to help guys out. It's a business. If I can't get the trade I want for him, then here's the extension we're goign to offer, and if you don't like it, you can play your final year out and be a UFA. If the offers aren't good enough now, they won't be that much different if he goes into UFA and we S&T him away. No one is simply out right signing him in FA next offseason with cap space. It would be a S&T.
Posted on 6/21/24 at 2:11 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
No there isn't, and i really like Jaylen Brown.
I think we’ll agree to disagree. Jaylen Brown seemed like the better player all playoffs. There are Boston fans who will tell you this.
quote:
maybe so, but i'm done trying to help guys out. It's a business. If I can't get the trade I want for him, then here's the extension we're goign to offer, and if you don't like it, you can play your final year out and be a UFA.
And he’ll walk for nothing. This is a bad, bad business decision. One Griffin has made way too often.
Yeah I wouldn’t rely on a S and T if he walks.
This post was edited on 6/21/24 at 2:13 pm
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