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If Pels Win Lotto But AD still wants out
Posted on 4/29/19 at 9:02 am
Posted on 4/29/19 at 9:02 am
Lets say on May 14th, the Pels win the lotto. For hypothetical purposes, lets say rest of lotto goes:
2. Cleveland
3. Phoenix
4. Knicks
But Griffin meets with AD on the 18th and he still wants out.Promises you that he will tell any team who is interested in trading for him that he will give them a fair shake and could re-sign there. Knicks are offering 4, all the future Dallas picks plus 3 future Knicks picks and any/all the players on their roster you want. Celtics are offering Tatum, Smart, Grizz pick and Kings + Clippers picks this year. You can also call around and get offers from any other team.
In addition, Suns are offering #3 and Tyler Johnson for Jrue. You can re-unite RJ and Zion or maybe the Suns go RJ and you can get Ja.
What would be your path forward? Again, lets assume for this hypothetical, that since you are getting Zion, ownership will sign off on a full rebuild if you want because tickets will get sold with Zion.
Two plus weeks until the night that determines our franchise fate for the next decade. Curious what people would want to do in this specific scenario. What would be your plan A, B, and C?
2. Cleveland
3. Phoenix
4. Knicks
But Griffin meets with AD on the 18th and he still wants out.Promises you that he will tell any team who is interested in trading for him that he will give them a fair shake and could re-sign there. Knicks are offering 4, all the future Dallas picks plus 3 future Knicks picks and any/all the players on their roster you want. Celtics are offering Tatum, Smart, Grizz pick and Kings + Clippers picks this year. You can also call around and get offers from any other team.
In addition, Suns are offering #3 and Tyler Johnson for Jrue. You can re-unite RJ and Zion or maybe the Suns go RJ and you can get Ja.
What would be your path forward? Again, lets assume for this hypothetical, that since you are getting Zion, ownership will sign off on a full rebuild if you want because tickets will get sold with Zion.
Two plus weeks until the night that determines our franchise fate for the next decade. Curious what people would want to do in this specific scenario. What would be your plan A, B, and C?
12
Posted on 4/29/19 at 9:17 am to Crewz
Stop. My penis can only get so erect.
Posted on 4/29/19 at 9:18 am to Crewz
I would go with the Knicks package. I want to build a team around Zion and the way to do that is with the most draft capital. The next couple of drafts are going to have a lot of talent and if we can add a 2022 Knicks pick to go with a potential 2022 Mavs pick, we get 2 additional picks in the double draft.
With Ja not entirely fitting in with Sexton, I’d try to acquire #2 to pair Morant and Zion. We could use #3 from the Suns plus sweetener allowing them to get Barrett. At #4 we can trade down, trade it for a player, or add a nice complimentary player.
With Ja not entirely fitting in with Sexton, I’d try to acquire #2 to pair Morant and Zion. We could use #3 from the Suns plus sweetener allowing them to get Barrett. At #4 we can trade down, trade it for a player, or add a nice complimentary player.
Posted on 4/29/19 at 9:19 am to Jizzamo311
If we gave up Jrue to get RJ Barrett I would not be happy
Posted on 4/29/19 at 9:22 am to Crewz
quote:
What would be your plan A
quote:
Celtics are offering Tatum, Smart, Grizz pick and Kings + Clippers picks this yea
quote:
Suns are offering #3 and Tyler Johnson for Jrue.
I can think of much worse than a core of Barrett/Tatum/Zion to move forward with.
I'm not 100% on getting rid of Jrue because I think he would have real value being the locker room guy for a young team, but #3 would be tempting. (ETA: Especially if it somehow led to getting Morant.)
This post was edited on 4/29/19 at 9:24 am
Posted on 4/29/19 at 9:25 am to Crewz
I think the only strategy I change if I get Zion is that instead of flipping assets for a Mike Conley type, I'd flip them for more future assets. Roll with Jrue/Zion and Tatum/Siakem/whoever and try to convert the other assets into future assets so you can cash them in at a more opportune time.
Posted on 4/29/19 at 9:26 am to Crewz
Shoot me.
The problem is that this set of circumstances makes for a weird set of possibilities, making it hard to go all in a direction.
On the face of things, AD goes to Boston because they have the best package under these circumstances.
The Knicks have exactly one player under contract who interests me, Dennis Smith Jr, and I don’t see him and the 4th overall plus a pupu platter of Mavs picks being a path forward. (Barring Porzingas never recovering, I see those as late lottery picks or being around 16th overall. Decent trade assets but not as appealing as the Kings and Grizzlies picks, most likely)
The choice on a Phoenix deal depends on whether Ja is available at the 3 and possibly what other throw-ins happen (3rd for Jrue is a good deal but 3rd and a $20m shite expiring contract for Jrue, not so much)
If we get Ja and either a young player or future considerations like a pick swap, I’m willing to talk.
My general plan going forward depends on whether we have Jrue or Ja.
Theoretically, we have a great defensive backcourt in Smart and Jrue, a good wing in Tatum, and a great 4-5 in Zion, so we are one starter and some depth away from completing a rebuild. The main problem with this lineup is that Smart’s shooting makes him a liability, so we have to make up for it elsewhere such as having a good shooting big next to Zion.
Things get murkier with Ja in the fold. He has a very high upside but is pretty raw, meaning a long timeline to winning. Smart likely becomes even more important here, despite his liabilities as a shooter, because he can be the defensive anchor.
The problem is that this set of circumstances makes for a weird set of possibilities, making it hard to go all in a direction.
On the face of things, AD goes to Boston because they have the best package under these circumstances.
The Knicks have exactly one player under contract who interests me, Dennis Smith Jr, and I don’t see him and the 4th overall plus a pupu platter of Mavs picks being a path forward. (Barring Porzingas never recovering, I see those as late lottery picks or being around 16th overall. Decent trade assets but not as appealing as the Kings and Grizzlies picks, most likely)
The choice on a Phoenix deal depends on whether Ja is available at the 3 and possibly what other throw-ins happen (3rd for Jrue is a good deal but 3rd and a $20m shite expiring contract for Jrue, not so much)
If we get Ja and either a young player or future considerations like a pick swap, I’m willing to talk.
My general plan going forward depends on whether we have Jrue or Ja.
Theoretically, we have a great defensive backcourt in Smart and Jrue, a good wing in Tatum, and a great 4-5 in Zion, so we are one starter and some depth away from completing a rebuild. The main problem with this lineup is that Smart’s shooting makes him a liability, so we have to make up for it elsewhere such as having a good shooting big next to Zion.
Things get murkier with Ja in the fold. He has a very high upside but is pretty raw, meaning a long timeline to winning. Smart likely becomes even more important here, despite his liabilities as a shooter, because he can be the defensive anchor.
Posted on 4/29/19 at 9:38 am to LilWezyAna
If we took the Knicks and Suns packages, we would have the 1, 3, and 4 choices. We could use another asset with 4 and try to get to 2 and have the top 3 picks - Zion, Ja and RJ along with Robinson, Knox, Ntilikina, and Smith to add to our roster or trade in another package. All the young players may drive Gentry nuts, but would he a hell of a base for a rebuild (coupled with draft capital in future years). Also, we would likely not be very good for a couple of years, making our own pick more valuable.
Conservatively, taking the Celtics package and keeping Jrue may be more of something I could see Griffin doing as it is a partial rebuild while maintaining competitiveness.
Conservatively, taking the Celtics package and keeping Jrue may be more of something I could see Griffin doing as it is a partial rebuild while maintaining competitiveness.
This post was edited on 4/29/19 at 10:11 am
Posted on 4/29/19 at 9:51 am to Crewz
If Morant is there at 3, then yes I would do that Suns trade. Uniting Zion and Morant would be too special to pass up. If it's Barrett, then I'd turn that down and keep high-level veteran mentor Jrue, to get Zion competing right away to build a winning environment.
Assuming Suns keep Morant or CLE or another team takes him at 2, then I would take the Knicks' deal. Too much future asset flexibility to pass up, now that a clear new franchise star is already on board.
At #4, think it would come down to Coby White, Garland, Hunter, Culver, or even trade down. For this scenario, White rises with all around game and high IQ, and we take him at #4 as a long term pairing with Zion.
Mitchell Robinson is the main player I would choose to keep, defensive units with Jrue/Zion/Robinson could be fun. Nitilikina would also be intriguing to groom behind Jrue, maybe in a bench unit alongside Frank Jackson. Dotson would be nice as a bench 3pt gunner. Knox and DSJ I would field trade offers for, but would ask my scouts if Knox would be worth developing or trading.
Free Agency- primary ball-handler/shot-creator, 3pt shooters, veteran leadship.
So many factors.
Robinson/ Okafor
Zion. / Wood
Kenrich / Moore/ Hill
Jrue / Moore/ Frank J.
White / Nitilikina
Then field offers for Hill and Moore and picks if needed, plus lots of cap room to fill out the roster or take on salary for plus players or picks.
Assuming Suns keep Morant or CLE or another team takes him at 2, then I would take the Knicks' deal. Too much future asset flexibility to pass up, now that a clear new franchise star is already on board.
At #4, think it would come down to Coby White, Garland, Hunter, Culver, or even trade down. For this scenario, White rises with all around game and high IQ, and we take him at #4 as a long term pairing with Zion.
Mitchell Robinson is the main player I would choose to keep, defensive units with Jrue/Zion/Robinson could be fun. Nitilikina would also be intriguing to groom behind Jrue, maybe in a bench unit alongside Frank Jackson. Dotson would be nice as a bench 3pt gunner. Knox and DSJ I would field trade offers for, but would ask my scouts if Knox would be worth developing or trading.
Free Agency- primary ball-handler/shot-creator, 3pt shooters, veteran leadship.
So many factors.
Robinson/ Okafor
Zion. / Wood
Kenrich / Moore/ Hill
Jrue / Moore/ Frank J.
White / Nitilikina
Then field offers for Hill and Moore and picks if needed, plus lots of cap room to fill out the roster or take on salary for plus players or picks.
This post was edited on 4/29/19 at 10:12 am
Posted on 4/29/19 at 9:54 am to Crewz
We win the lottery then i would like to see us send AD and maybe a sign and trade with Peyton to Phoenix for ayton, Warren and the third pick. Good chance Cleveland passes on Ja for Barret
Ja
Jrue
Warren
Zion
Ayton
Really good young core of players for a rebuild that could be competitive fairly quick. Worse case have one terrible season next year and draft another piece
Ja
Jrue
Warren
Zion
Ayton
Really good young core of players for a rebuild that could be competitive fairly quick. Worse case have one terrible season next year and draft another piece
Posted on 4/29/19 at 10:00 am to Saintsntigers04
I love Jrue, but it would be incredibly difficult for me to hold onto a 28 year old Jrue Holiday if this team goes as young as they possibly could.
Posted on 4/29/19 at 10:03 am to NOFOX
quote:
With Ja not entirely fitting in with Sexton,
The backyard would be a mess defensively, but Cavs find that the best role for Sexton is scorer/secondary ball handler
This post was edited on 4/29/19 at 10:04 am
Posted on 4/29/19 at 10:19 am to CP3forMVP
This isn't football where being 28 is considered old. For basketball they consider a players prime years between 25 and low 30s so he's exactly at the stage in his career you would want him
Posted on 4/29/19 at 10:23 am to NOSHAU
quote:
If we took the Knicks and Suns packages, we would have the 1, 3, and 4 choices. We could use another asset with 4 and try to get to 2 and have the top 3 picks - Zion, Ja and RJ
Call me crazy but is this something we want?
2012 AD/MKG/Beal
2013 Bennet/Oladipo/Porter
2014 Wiggins/Parker/Embid
2015 KAT/D'Angelo Russell/Okafor
2016 Ben Simmons/Brandon Ingram/Jaylen Brown
2017 Fultz/Ball/Tatum
2018 Ayton/Bagley/Doncic
Nearly every year one of the top 3 is a big disappointment. Maybe I'm being too pessimistic and should look at it as upping our odds at getting the 2 worthy top 3 talents, but that's not what it feels like to me. I'd rather take the "sure thing" in Zion and find a way to spread out our potential top picks over future drafts.
This post was edited on 4/29/19 at 10:24 am
Posted on 4/29/19 at 10:23 am to Saintsntigers04
He wouldn't be "old", he would be old compared to our new core of players.
Which could be good and bad.
Good that he would be a great presence for the young guys.
Bad that he wouldn't necessarily fit into our timeline for competing and we may get more "value" from him by trading him.
Which could be good and bad.
Good that he would be a great presence for the young guys.
Bad that he wouldn't necessarily fit into our timeline for competing and we may get more "value" from him by trading him.
Posted on 4/29/19 at 10:30 am to Crewz
Jrue is worth more than the #3 and TJ to me. He’s a DPOY guy, and a really solid offensive player. And he’s capable of locking down elite guards, which is the majority of the contenders in the West
Concern in the Celtics package is the lack of shooting, and a bunch of players playing positions 2, 3, and small 4, but nobody playing the 1 or the 5. It’s a bunch of good or great players with relatively similar skill sets. But that package has the least risk as far as developing talent, and a high amount of value
Concern in the Knicks package is the future performance of Dallas and NYK. I don’t think NYK fair well. AD + either Kyrie or Durant doesn’t seem like a true winner to me, but it’s enough to make their picks lackluster. Dallas is betting on long term health, and I think they’re right to bet on it, so their picks don’t look useful either. This package is the more boom or bust approach
If it’s me, I’m taking the value approach and trading with Celtics. But not trading Jrue, unless a better offer is in hand. Keep looking for trades, and attempt to acquire a PG that is mostly offense, distributing well and knocks down his 3s. Don’t need the PG to be able to finish or be able to defend well. Then acquire one athletic big that can body if needed. No offense needed
Concern in the Celtics package is the lack of shooting, and a bunch of players playing positions 2, 3, and small 4, but nobody playing the 1 or the 5. It’s a bunch of good or great players with relatively similar skill sets. But that package has the least risk as far as developing talent, and a high amount of value
Concern in the Knicks package is the future performance of Dallas and NYK. I don’t think NYK fair well. AD + either Kyrie or Durant doesn’t seem like a true winner to me, but it’s enough to make their picks lackluster. Dallas is betting on long term health, and I think they’re right to bet on it, so their picks don’t look useful either. This package is the more boom or bust approach
If it’s me, I’m taking the value approach and trading with Celtics. But not trading Jrue, unless a better offer is in hand. Keep looking for trades, and attempt to acquire a PG that is mostly offense, distributing well and knocks down his 3s. Don’t need the PG to be able to finish or be able to defend well. Then acquire one athletic big that can body if needed. No offense needed
Posted on 4/29/19 at 10:30 am to TigerinATL
quote:
Call me crazy but is this something we want?
2012 AD/MKG/Beal
2013 Bennet/Oladipo/Porter
2014 Wiggins/Parker/Embid
2015 KAT/D'Angelo Russell/Okafor
2016 Ben Simmons/Brandon Ingram/Jaylen Brown
2017 Fultz/Ball/Tatum
2018 Ayton/Bagley/Doncic
Nearly every year one of the top 3 is a big disappointment. Maybe I'm being too pessimistic and should look at it as upping our odds at getting the 2 worthy top 3 talents, but that's not what it feels like to me. I'd rather take the "sure thing" in Zion and find a way to spread out our potential top picks over future drafts.
Almost all of those guys are at least serviceable. (Okafor is a disappointment and the jury's still out on Fultz)
I'd look at it more as securing we get the best guy, or two, in the draft.
If two of them end up stars and the 3rd is just a serviceable player, I'd take it as a win.
There's no 100% right answer, but what if our picks are spread out like Philly from 2015-2017.
I think I'd rather take most of those 3 player tandems over what they received in 3 concurrent drafts.
Posted on 4/29/19 at 10:32 am to TigerinATL
quote:
Nearly every year one of the top 3 is a big disappointment.
You're looking at it wrong. Nearly every year one of the top 3 is a star. But getting the top 3 picks is unprecedented and I don't know how you could develop 3 top 5 picks from one draft.
Posted on 4/29/19 at 10:35 am to TigerinATL
quote:
Call me crazy but is this something we want?
No we don’t. The NBA draft is heavy on busts at the top level. Far more than the NFL. I’m not betting on the draft for more than 1 pick to succeed
And with that much young raw talent we would need elite coaching to get them to succeed. We won’t find a Popovich to do that. These players have at least one season with Gentry, and there’s no obvious home run coach out there that can handle a stable of 21 year old wannabe stars that have little to no handle on the game yet
Posted on 4/29/19 at 10:43 am to NOFOX
quote:
But getting the top 3 picks is unprecedented and I don't know how you could develop 3 top 5 picks from one draft.
That's the other angle that made it feel like not the best idea. You're attempting the KD/Westbrook/Harden OKC build method but you're doing it all in one draft. OKC wasn't able to keep that build together even with those 3 staggered.
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