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re: I tried to tell you guys about Brandon Ingram last year.
Posted on 4/14/21 at 8:52 am to VA LSU fan
Posted on 4/14/21 at 8:52 am to VA LSU fan
quote:
Ingram and a 1st for Beal would be a good deal for both teams.
That would be a bad deal for the Pelicans. Ingram is a good player, even with his warts. He's only 23, and has already made an All-Star game in the West. Beal is a really good player, but his next contract is going to be massive. Ingram is under contract for 4 more years. Beal's extension starts at $34.5M next year and he will likely opt out in summer 2022, then you're looking at possibly having to pay him 4 years/$198M or 5 years/$266M. He needs to be THE missing piece because your roster is basically locked in.
I'm just not convinced he's that much better than Ingram. Ingram is a better shooter, which is preferably next to Point Zion.
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Posted on 4/14/21 at 9:09 am to partywiththelombardi
It was Rip Hamilton.
Posted on 4/14/21 at 10:23 am to BayouRat15
I've said all along I am not sold that Brandon Ingram is with the franchise long term. It's hard for me to imagine a team doing what they need to do, particularly defensively, to be title contenders with him being such a large part of the picture.
But with that said, it's not a problem worth worrying about right now, and if the time ever came up that they wanted to move him teams would line up to add a guy that can put up 25 a night.
But with that said, it's not a problem worth worrying about right now, and if the time ever came up that they wanted to move him teams would line up to add a guy that can put up 25 a night.
Posted on 4/14/21 at 10:37 am to CP3forMVP
quote:This has definitely been concerning me lately as he's not getting any better on D, probably worse.
I've said all along I am not sold that Brandon Ingram is with the franchise long term. It's hard for me to imagine a team doing what they need to do, particularly defensively, to be title contenders with him being such a large part of the picture.
He's just a really awful defender, it's so bad.
Posted on 4/14/21 at 11:00 am to shel311
I feel like BI has to relearn where to play. After last season and the start of this season the idea was BI was the man and Zion would be #2 until he started to develop.
Well Zion developed way faster than they thought he would and it is now his team. He is the man
I feel BI needs to learn how to be the #2 guy and a full off-season and training camp should help that.
Now as far as defense, hopefully he can get better. I don't see why he can't get better. He just has to do it.
Well Zion developed way faster than they thought he would and it is now his team. He is the man
I feel BI needs to learn how to be the #2 guy and a full off-season and training camp should help that.
Now as far as defense, hopefully he can get better. I don't see why he can't get better. He just has to do it.
This post was edited on 4/14/21 at 11:00 am
Posted on 4/14/21 at 11:25 am to shel311
quote:
This has definitely been concerning me lately as he's not getting any better on D, probably worse.
He's just a really awful defender, it's so bad.
Yep, and I think if it was your 6'4 or 6'5 shooting guard it's a little easier to hide, but with BI being so bad at a position that you need quality defenders at, it's hard to build around him. I've seen people advocate for letting him play the 2 and getting another guy with good size next to him, and I agree with that route.
Posted on 4/14/21 at 11:26 am to Split2874
His foot and lateral speed is slower than I thought, so the issue is he has to be hidden.
It's exacerbated because zion is also a bad/average defender.
Ingram being the #2guy will work, but you need to have 3 guys who can be good to elite defensively to compensate.
It's exacerbated because zion is also a bad/average defender.
Ingram being the #2guy will work, but you need to have 3 guys who can be good to elite defensively to compensate.
Posted on 4/14/21 at 11:34 am to CP3forMVP
quote:I was pretty anti this route this past offseason, but seeing how Zion has developed as a primary ball handler I think it could make sense to bring in a 3&D wing (even if we keep Lonzo).
I've seen people advocate for letting him play the 2 and getting another guy with good size next to him, and I agree with that route
Ideally next years starting lineup could be:
Hayes (with an improved 3 point shot)
Zion
3&D Wing
Ingram
Lonzo
Hayes needs to get priority with Vinson this offseason.
Posted on 4/14/21 at 12:35 pm to Epic Cajun
We are on a 3 game winning streak after Ingram comes back and you guys still want to complain about Ingram.
Did you guys not remember Ingram being a decent/great defender on the Lakers/Duke? He showed glimpses of being a great defender this year. It all had to do with effort. He has a 7’2 wingspan that can help him defend better. Jerami grant is a nice comparison on what Ingram can do for defense and Ingram is bigger. He just need to practice his positioning and actually want to play defense. I feel like he puts too much effort on offense that he get tired on defense. He watches film, loves the game and wants to keep improving. Guy has been growing every year and improving and yall want to trade him or don’t believe he can stay here. Instead you guys want KAT, Sabonish and Beal? Guys who are known for their defense alright.
Did you guys not remember Ingram being a decent/great defender on the Lakers/Duke? He showed glimpses of being a great defender this year. It all had to do with effort. He has a 7’2 wingspan that can help him defend better. Jerami grant is a nice comparison on what Ingram can do for defense and Ingram is bigger. He just need to practice his positioning and actually want to play defense. I feel like he puts too much effort on offense that he get tired on defense. He watches film, loves the game and wants to keep improving. Guy has been growing every year and improving and yall want to trade him or don’t believe he can stay here. Instead you guys want KAT, Sabonish and Beal? Guys who are known for their defense alright.
This post was edited on 4/14/21 at 12:55 pm
Posted on 4/14/21 at 12:40 pm to htran90
quote:
His foot and lateral speed is slower than I thought, so the issue is he has to be hidden.
Don’t give me that bullshite. If he has slow foot and lateral speed, he wouldn’t be able to score 24ppg. It’s all settles down to effort and position. Ingram knows that and he is working with SVG on it. If these guys can actually be vocal on defense, maybe we can see it. James Johnson is going to help them with that also. Plus he doesn’t use his best asset which is his length/wingspan to interrupt lanes.
Posted on 4/14/21 at 12:56 pm to duyp
quote:
Don’t give me that bullshite. If he has slow foot and lateral speed, he wouldn’t be able to score 24ppg.
De'aaron fox is arguably the fastest player in the league and defensively he's slow to react.
Russell Westbrook for years was lightning fast and was at best average.
Defensive foot speed isn't the same as offense. There's a component of being able to move lateral instead of driving downhill. The other is having the basketball iq to move.
That's like comparing a nfl players 40 time to their 3 cone shuttle, it's different kinds of speed, same for offense and defense
This post was edited on 4/14/21 at 1:04 pm
Posted on 4/14/21 at 1:04 pm to htran90
Just look at Zion. One of the worst lateral players on defense in the league. But one of the best downhill players if not the best.
Posted on 4/14/21 at 1:11 pm to htran90
You’re comparing guards to a forward. Those 2 guys can play defense if they wanted to.
Look at Luka and Green, they are pretty slow but they use their IQ to become decent defenders.
Even SVG called them out on their effort on defense. He wasn’t pleased at all with BI and Zion at the end of Cleveland game. I’m not saying he’s going to be a defensive player like Simmons or Giannis. But don’t tell me he’s that bad to where he is extremely useless at that position.
Plus Fox, Westbrook are great players and I doubt you want to trade them if they are on your team, especially if they are a forward.
Look at Luka and Green, they are pretty slow but they use their IQ to become decent defenders.
Even SVG called them out on their effort on defense. He wasn’t pleased at all with BI and Zion at the end of Cleveland game. I’m not saying he’s going to be a defensive player like Simmons or Giannis. But don’t tell me he’s that bad to where he is extremely useless at that position.
Plus Fox, Westbrook are great players and I doubt you want to trade them if they are on your team, especially if they are a forward.
This post was edited on 4/14/21 at 1:13 pm
Posted on 4/14/21 at 1:15 pm to duyp
LINK
All about effort with these guys. I’m not to worried on Zion picking up defense. He will get there.
Also for all you guys hating on Ingram, please name me 10 small forwards who are better than him.
quote:
There’s no more hiding from it. Van Gundy made that point crystal clear by not only pulling them aside to speak to them postgame on Sunday, but also bringing it up unprompted in the press conference afterward.
quote:
“I think that’s when you have more of a sense of urgency coming into those games,” Ingram said. “I think with Cleveland, we come in sometimes and feel like we can have a night off and not have the same sense of urgency that we had against Philly.
All about effort with these guys. I’m not to worried on Zion picking up defense. He will get there.
Also for all you guys hating on Ingram, please name me 10 small forwards who are better than him.
This post was edited on 4/14/21 at 1:18 pm
Posted on 4/14/21 at 1:17 pm to duyp
quote:Well, that's not true.
Don’t give me that bullshite. If he has slow foot and lateral speed, he wouldn’t be able to score 24ppg.
He most certainly has slow lateral quickness.
Question - Do you think Zion has good lateral quickness?
quote:That's really not "all" it boils down to. He doesn't have the quickness or the awareness, he's very slow to react and doesn't have good defensive instincts. Some of those things, you either can't teach or it can only be taught so much, you either have it or you don't.
It’s all settles down to effort and position.
quote:Correct, but again, that's mostly a function of lack of quickness as well as instincts.
Plus he doesn’t use his best asset which is his length/wingspan to interrupt lanes.
This post was edited on 4/14/21 at 1:18 pm
Posted on 4/14/21 at 1:29 pm to shel311
quote:
Well, that's not true. He most certainly has slow lateral quickness. Question - Do you think Zion has good lateral quickness?
I should have worded better. I’m saying that he doesn’t need to be hidden because of his lateral quickness. He has enough speed to be a decent defender that we don’t have to hide it. You can see glimpses of his defense with Duke and lakers.
Posted on 4/14/21 at 1:40 pm to shel311
quote:
That's really not "all" it boils down to. He doesn't have the quickness or the awareness, he's very slow to react and doesn't have good defensive instincts. Some of those things, you either can't teach or it can only be taught so much, you either have it or you don't.
He had it when he was with the lakers. He was extremely solid for them. I’m not saying he’s going to become a shutdown defender or anything. I’m saying he is good enough to not worry too much if he actually gives a damn. Ask any laker fan what they though about Ingram as a defender when he was with them and they probably will tell you the same.
They need to be vocal on the court too. Zion and Ingram communications of being quiet needs to change if they want this team to become better.
This post was edited on 4/14/21 at 1:45 pm
Posted on 4/15/21 at 8:17 am to duyp
quote:
He just need to practice his positioning and actually want to play defense. I feel like he puts too much effort on offense that he get tired on defense.
he doesnt care about defense.
defense takes way more energy and intention than offense.
rebounding takes energy and intention.
Posted on 4/15/21 at 8:35 am to duyp
quote:
Did you guys not remember Ingram being a decent/great defender on the Lakers/Duke?
Ingram was never a decent or great defender for the Lakers. He was ok at Duke, but that's a far cry from the NBA. He's always been below average in the NBA.
His draft report coming out of profile that he lacked lateral quickness, has poor footwork, and was often caught out of position. I would say that all still holds true today.
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