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I still don’t understand why Zion won’t shoot?

Posted on 10/29/24 at 11:27 am
Posted by Tiger1242
Member since Jul 2011
32676 posts
Posted on 10/29/24 at 11:27 am
I know this topic has been discussed at length but it it SO FRUSTRATING.

Is it a mental block ala Ben Simmons?

We know he CAN shoot, hell he’s a pretty decent shooter, he hits open 3’s and is relatively consistent from 12-18ft. The problem is that he WON’T shoot.

What is the solution? I’m sure coaches and trainers are telling him to shoot the jumper and keep the defense honest right? It’s so frustrating to watch him power dribble over and over directly into a defense that is just standing at the rim waiting for him then get mad when he doesn’t get a foul call.


SHOOT THE BALL ZION!!!
Posted by Broski
Member since Jun 2011
76693 posts
Posted on 10/29/24 at 11:42 am to
Because he still thinks he's at Duke, where he was unstoppable in the paint.

He still can score at a high clip down low, but it's nowhere near the automatic bucket because this is the NBA where every single player is a physical freak in their own right. I don't know if it's hubris or ignorance, but the fact that he hasn't really adapted his game at all is a problem.
Posted by TeddyPadillac
Member since Dec 2010
28685 posts
Posted on 10/29/24 at 12:13 pm to
He's not a good shooter. He doesn't jump when he shoots, which isn't a big deal, but he shoots the ball really flat, which is why he's a shitty free throw shooter as well. How many free throws does Zion hit the front of the rim and it keeps going and then bounces off the backboard and back into the goal?
That's not a good looking shot, and it's luck that it goes in, and he does this all the time.

I've seen him shoot FT's with the proper arc. It's common knowledge why somoene hits the front of the rim on FT's, usually b/c they are tired.

I've got zero faith in him being even around 35% on 3's. If he shot them consistently he'd probably be around 30%

You want to hear a stupid stat.
Zion's a 33.7% career 3 point shooter.
If you remove the 1st game of his career when he was 4 for 4 from 3, he drops down to a 30.4% career 3 point shooter. 1 game in 4 years of playing has a 3% boost to his career 3 point shooting.
Posted by Pendulum
Member since Jan 2009
7605 posts
Posted on 10/29/24 at 12:32 pm to
His shot looks worse today then it did his rookie year imo.
Posted by spaghettioeauxs
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2017
2316 posts
Posted on 10/29/24 at 12:39 pm to
It is somewhat ironic than in Zion’s first nba game, he had so much success with the 3, being left wide open. Yet he’s never consistently tried to go back to that well, though it’s essentially always free and wide open. He’s probably a better shooter than it seems, but when it comes to the game, he’s going to revert to what he’s most comfortable with. Y’all are a little too down on Zion this year though. Let’s not forget what he was doing to the Lakers in the play-in before tragedy struck once more.
Posted by southsidedell
Tampa, FL
Member since Dec 2016
5077 posts
Posted on 10/29/24 at 1:26 pm to
The thing about the flat shooting....you are right but it kinda doesn't matter as no one is within a mile of him until he gets to the paint. He can shoot that bitch flat all he wants if he can make them wide open. No one is around to block it.
Posted by TeddyPadillac
Member since Dec 2010
28685 posts
Posted on 10/29/24 at 1:38 pm to
I’m not worried about him getting blocked. It’s difficult to consistently make 3s with a flat shot. It’s science.
Posted by Galactic Inquisitor
An Incredibly Distant Star
Member since Dec 2013
17480 posts
Posted on 10/29/24 at 1:45 pm to
quote:

I’m not worried about him getting blocked. It’s difficult to consistently make 3s with a flat shot. It’s science.


Yeah, no arc = more bricks.
Posted by Galactic Inquisitor
An Incredibly Distant Star
Member since Dec 2013
17480 posts
Posted on 10/29/24 at 1:45 pm to
quote:

Y’all are a little too down on Zion this year though. Let’s not forget what he was doing to the Lakers in the play-in before tragedy struck once more.


Nobody has forgotten that. We need him to do that for more than a dozen games per year.
Posted by spaghettioeauxs
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2017
2316 posts
Posted on 10/29/24 at 1:47 pm to
Everyone has their own shot, CJ shoots a flat line drive and he’s one of the best shooters in the league. Trey has that beautiful rainbow but it’s really just about how many repetitions they are putting in to master that movement.
Posted by Macintosh
Leveraging Salaries University
Member since Sep 2011
54202 posts
Posted on 10/29/24 at 1:48 pm to
Have any of our players evolved their games under Willie?
Posted by Galactic Inquisitor
An Incredibly Distant Star
Member since Dec 2013
17480 posts
Posted on 10/29/24 at 1:55 pm to
quote:

but it’s really just about how many repetitions they are putting in to master that movement.


It's more than that, though. The arch absolutely increases the effective opening of the rim. It's simple geometry. The rim is more forgiving as arch increases.

Some guys can succeed in spite of poor fundamentals through dedication (Reggie Miller, Shawn Marion, etc.), but Zion clearly isn't a gym rat.
Posted by spaghettioeauxs
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2017
2316 posts
Posted on 10/29/24 at 2:01 pm to
That’s definitely true, the rainbow is better but it’s a much more difficult skill to hone. I’m just countering that you can still be as efficient with a line drive, like CJ’s shot. But the saying “shooter’s touch” definitely comes more into play on rainbows cause the ball will bounce up and in, versus hard off.
Posted by DeafVallyBatnR
Member since Sep 2004
17653 posts
Posted on 10/29/24 at 2:05 pm to
quote:

still don’t understand why Zion won’t shoot?


He might hurt himself
Posted by ZForMVPFromThe313
Member since Aug 2024
118 posts
Posted on 10/29/24 at 2:10 pm to
He gets GREAT lift when he pulls up off the dribble, wtf lol. You are wayyyy off. His shot ain't flat either, this is just a lie. It doesn't rainbow and it's not flat at all. Guess what that is?????? A normal lined shot lmao.

His spot up 3 is clean but could use work, but he hasn't taken one in a long arse time. His off dribble pull up is absolutely beautiful. You have no idea what you are talking about.
Posted by TeddyPadillac
Member since Dec 2010
28685 posts
Posted on 10/29/24 at 2:11 pm to
quote:

Everyone has their own shot, CJ shoots a flat line drive and he’s one of the best shooters in the league. Trey has that beautiful rainbow but it’s really just about how many repetitions they are putting in to master that movement.



You're absolutely right.
CJ from time to time does shoot sort of line drives, mostly when he's on move towards the goal and pulls up and him momemtum carries him forward.
And i'd bet you he'd be critical of himself on those shots and say he needs to be under control more and get a higher percentage shot off by getting his feet set better and having more lift on his jump, giving him more arc on his shot.
Also if you're releasing the ball from close to 10' in the air b/c you actually take a jump shot like CJ and Hawk does, then the appearance of the shot may look more like a line drive sometimes, but it's got a much higher chance of going in than someone like Zion shooting the line drive flat footed and not jumping, releasing the ball from under 9' in the air.
The difference there is CJ is going to hit the back of the rim, and it's going to go in from time to time b/c the ball still has more of a downward trajectory at the rim than Zions flat shot released from a lower height, and you see Zion hitting the front of the rim, and it's unlikely to go in.


Zion gets away with his flat free throws at times b/c he's shooting the ball straight more often than not, so if it gets over the rim he's got a good chance of it bouncing it's way in. When you get further out, that bounce isn't as friendly.



You know damn well Zion doesn't put the work in on his outside shooting. He's had plenty of time to practice shooting with his injuries he's had, which most weren't a big deal to his shooting form b/c he doesn't jump when he shoots. Trey's been getting shots up for over 2 weeks now with his hamstring injury. We've literally seen him shooting in videos of practice, and he said he's just shooting, no running. You think Zion was doing that?
Posted by Broski
Member since Jun 2011
76693 posts
Posted on 10/29/24 at 2:13 pm to
quote:

You know damn well Zion doesn't put the work in


Could've stopped right there.
Posted by spaghettioeauxs
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2017
2316 posts
Posted on 10/29/24 at 2:23 pm to
Not sure tbh. I find it hard to believe an NBA player wouldn’t be working on his shot but I can admit there’s certainly not a lot of evidence to support that he is. I guess the most likely answer is he does what is minimally required, but not enough to ever become great. To be great at anything, you have to be obsessed. Seems pretty clear to me at this point that Zion is obsessed with dominating and winning, but not obsessed with putting in the work to do that consistently.
Posted by spaghettioeauxs
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2017
2316 posts
Posted on 10/29/24 at 2:27 pm to
Most people don’t have natural talent, being a prodigy is pretty rare. I think Zion being a prodigy is the root cause. He never had to work hard, I don’t think he knows how to work hard. When you’re getting paid $50M a year or whatever, it should literally be the easiest thing in the world to be in amazing shape. It’s just different when you never had to work hard, never had to suffer. He was always a once in a generation specimen, he knew he was going to the league in HS. He just doesn’t have the perspective to be great.
Posted by TeddyPadillac
Member since Dec 2010
28685 posts
Posted on 10/29/24 at 2:45 pm to
There's a lot of truth to that, and it's why I'll always give Lebron his props as a basketball player b/c he without a doubt lived up to the ridiculous hype that was around him.
I would love for Zion to become friends with Lebron just so he can see what it takes to be the best. Lebron is the most physically gifted athlete ever, but he's worked unbelieveably hard to be the best and stay the best as a basketball player.
First 8 years in the league 33% 3 point shooter. Never shot over 35% in any year.
Last 14 years in the league 36% 3 point shooter, with 8 of them over 36%, and 4 of those over 38%.
You'll never hear anyone say Lebron doesn't work hard in offseason, or even during the season. He's relentless with his work ethic, and all great players are like that.
Not that Lebron is fat or ever was, but he puts in a ton of time and effort to make sure his body stays in the shape he wants it to be in to play the type of game he wants to play. You can argue HGH and what not, and I don't care one iota about that if it's true b/c he's still putting in the physical work necessary to get to where he wants to be. Same with how he eats. Micheal Beasley was on a show recently talking about how the one year he played with Lebron in Miami and followed his diet and workout routine it was the best he ever felt physically as a basketball player, but he couldn't keep up that routine without him.
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