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re: Here to eat my crow about Griff
Posted on 4/16/22 at 9:45 am to Bronc
Posted on 4/16/22 at 9:45 am to Bronc
quote:
Boston has not had a ton of difficulty getting free agents
quote:
Horford, Bradley, Turner, Crowder, Marcus Morris, Gordon Hayward
Championship
They also had to overpay for the ability to sign star talents like Horford and Hayward
1
Posted on 4/16/22 at 9:49 am to Soggymoss
quote:
99% of being an NBA GM is all about luck, but you can make your luck better by great scouting and making great trades, which they have done both this season.
Bingo---I remember the Warriors Gm getting big-headed and ppl had to remind them of all the luck they had assembling their team.
“Luck Is What Happens When Preparation Meets Opportunity"
Posted on 4/16/22 at 9:50 am to NOLAbaby
quote:
Jaxson Hayes suddenly turning a corner in year 3 certainly helps this argument. His draft record looks much nicer. As does flipping the other 2019 1st round draft pick NAW for CJ/Nance, when let's be honest NAW still wasn't panning all the way out
He passed on two players, one of which will be a multiple allstar and the other which has a decent chance to be if he stays healthy to move down. And the Blazers shipped NAW out right away for a 2nd? So we lost out on an allstar at our biggest position of need for a player who was worth a 2nd on the open market? And this helps his argument? Yea ok.
This post was edited on 4/16/22 at 9:53 am
Posted on 4/16/22 at 9:54 am to LesGeaux45
quote:
Every GM of a good team has a lot of good luck along the way. For anyone to pretend that Griff is unique in that way is being disingenuous.
Yeah, but we shouldn't swing from one extreme to the other. Griff whiffed the high probability moves that weren't no brainers, but his low probability moves paid off. That is being lucky in the sense that it would be hard to repeat that process with similar results. But what people are dismissing is there is also strategy involved with the low probability moves.
Most of us act like striking out on the big names in FA was where the game ended and Griff was "lucky" CJ was available. I have no doubt part of why they were comfortable walking away from Lonzo is the salary relief it created that allowed a move like CJ or Fox. Maybe it is often plan C or D being the one that pans out, but it's still in the framework of the overall plan. Griff is lucky but it's not dumb or blind luck. It's closer to the preparation meets opportunity luck.
Posted on 4/16/22 at 9:58 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Championship They also had to overpay for the ability to sign star talents like Horford and Hayward
I mean my argument, if you remember before this side tangent, is that Ainge is an overrated GM. But most of those guys were all coveted/solid free agents that other teams bid for and they chose Boston, and not for overpays.
Hayward also got multiple max offers and chose Boston. Horford was a trade and Boston didn’t resign him cause Philly threw more money on the table for the 33 year old.
All I’m saying is that framing Boston like some black sheep to players isn’t quite accurate. They aren’t the Lakers or Warriors, but they also aren’t having to overpay options D and F like the Pels were in free agency.
Which also makes Ainge’s post big three reign look worse in my mind, cause for all that capital he had going for him, and the ability to get free agents, he didn’t really achieve much in the end. And this off-season in Utah is probably going to write the final chapter of his career. If he botches the Mitchell/Gobert situation, it won’t do good for his post big 3 legacy
This post was edited on 4/16/22 at 10:01 am
Posted on 4/16/22 at 10:08 am to TigerinATL
quote:
Griff is lucky but it's not dumb or blind luck. It's closer to the preparation meets opportunity luck.
I mean you really believed Griff thought the West woukd be historically bad this year at the bottom and this woukd be the year the Blazers tear it down after just being in the WCF recently?
I mean if Lillard doesn’t get injured and they are the 7 seed this year, who is Griff trading for if CJ isn’t available? Who out there could have turned the team around like he has?
Did he have a great draft for us this year, absolutely. Was he very lucky that everyone and I mean everyone hung up on him during free agency and injuries decimated numerous teams in the west allowing us to keep long shot lottery picks he traded off and sneak into the playoffs with a losing record. Yes I think he was very very lucky.
This post was edited on 4/16/22 at 10:13 am
Posted on 4/16/22 at 10:08 am to LosLobos111
Not trying to be negative. The program is in good shape right now. This team just isn’t that good imo
Posted on 4/16/22 at 10:19 am to Townedrunkard
quote:
I mean you really believed Griff thought the West woukd be historically bad this year at the bottom and this woukd be the year the Blazers tear it down after just being in the WCF recently?
We've all thought they were likely to trade CJ for the past year or 2. And many non Pels "experts" were already assuming Fox was the odd man out in Sacramento. So yes, I think it's entirely likely that "Trade for high level starter" was plan C or D when they decided to go hard after a lead guard.
quote:
Who out there could have turned the team around like he has?
I wanted Fox more than CJ at the deadline and I was wrong. Nobody would have had the impact CJ has had. And it sounds like the team went after Fox harder than CJ but it just wouldn't work because Indy only wanted Haliburton for Sabonis and Sac didn't want to trade away both of its lead guards.
So more luck for Griff in that he got backed into the perfect choice, I am not denying the luck element here, in fact I'm counting on it being real as we head into the Lottery with the Lakers pick. But he's made moves to cut his losses quicker than many other GMs we've had. He adjusted his draft strategy in a way that's really paid off after the previous strategy wasn't. So it is not blind luck and hopefully he's learning from his mistakes as he goes and is a better GM now than when he thought this team HAD to have Steven Adams.
Posted on 4/16/22 at 10:19 am to Townedrunkard
And with us having to give the Blazers the ‘25 pick b/c of his idiotic Graham trade instead of our pick this year, so for the Jrue trade has netted us Steven Adams, Bledsoe and Graham, barf….
Hope that ‘27 pick turns into something.
Hope that ‘27 pick turns into something.
This post was edited on 4/16/22 at 10:31 am
Posted on 4/16/22 at 10:25 am to shel311
quote:
The core is set, we'll build around the edges and rotation pieces going forward.
I wouldn’t be surprised if our only move this off-season is letting Snell walk and adding whoever we draft with the Lakers pick. Our seconds this season will be either traded for future seconds or sent to the G league, IMO. Run it back with some continuity.
Posted on 4/16/22 at 10:26 am to crewdepoo
quote:
We fired him at his peak.
Lmfao
Posted on 4/16/22 at 10:27 am to TigerinATL
quote:
We've all thought they were likely to trade CJ for the past year or 2.
I agree but it was to trade CJ for an upgrade or a better fit next to Lillard. Not to tear the house down like they did. Really Jrue for CJ would have been a perfect trade for both teams.
And yea I know he wanted Fox, but they wanted a good player to stay competing, and we couldn’t offer that. And like you said, they weren’t trading both guards.
So with that, Griff would have likely been left standing with his D in his hand like during free agency. Is it blind luck? No but has he been extremely lucky a lot of things with long odds just happened to break his way this year. No doubt.
This post was edited on 4/16/22 at 10:44 am
Posted on 4/16/22 at 10:28 am to Townedrunkard
quote:
And with us having to give the Blazers the ‘25 pick b/c of his idiotic Graham trade, so for the Jrue trade has netted us Steven Adams, Bledsoe and Graham, barf….
That 25 pick you point out we're giving to the Blazers for CJ is part of the Jrue trade. So the Jrue trade has netted us CJ and the cap space to bring in Nance plus a 1st, the top 5 rights on that 25 Bucks pick, and 2 more Bucks swaps.
I get that you don't like Griff, and I don't think it's unjustified, but you hate him so much it blinds you and you sometimes only see the negatives.
Posted on 4/16/22 at 10:32 am to TigerinATL
quote:
But he's made moves to cut his losses quicker than many other GMs we've had.
That is the best thing I’ll say about Griff. He hasn’t gotten hamstrung by worrying about sunk costs. If a move didn’t work out he’s been willing to cut bait, pivot, and move on. Would be great if the original moves would have worked out more often, but at least there hasn’t been any doubling down or digging in.
Posted on 4/16/22 at 10:32 am to Townedrunkard
quote:
Really Jrue for CJ would have been a perfect trade for both teams.
And instead of doing this trade, he traded Jrue for 3 firsts and 2 swaps, and only had to trade 1 first and 2 seconds for CJ
Posted on 4/16/22 at 10:37 am to TigerinATL
quote:
That 25 pick you point out we're giving to the Blazers for CJ is part of the Jrue trade. So the Jrue trade has netted us CJ and the cap space to bring in Nance plus a 1st, the top 5 rights on that 25 Bucks pick, and 2 more Bucks swaps.
You missed the point I made. If say we gave up two seconds for Graham, which should have been his market value considering what the Bulls gave up for Ball, we would have sent our first this year to the Blazers and been able to keep the ‘25 pick. So yes in essence, Jrue only has netted us Adams, Bledsoe and Graham. But technically you are right.
Blazers wanted a first this year to use for their quick rebuild. Now if the ‘25 pick hits top 4 and we keep it, I’ll kneel and it’s all Hail to the mighty Griff eternal….
This post was edited on 4/16/22 at 10:42 am
Posted on 4/16/22 at 10:43 am to Townedrunkard
Wtf do you care so much about a mid round pick. He took a shot and it didn’t pay off. It happens. Much rather Griffin gamble on these type of moves over more rookies like Nickeils.
Posted on 4/16/22 at 10:44 am to Townedrunkard
quote:
You missed the point I made. If say we gave up two seconds for Graham, which should have been his market value considering what the Bulls gave up for Ball, we would have sent our first this year to the Blazers and been able to keep the ‘25 pick. So yes in essence, Jrue only has netted us Adams, Bledsoe and Graham. But technically you are right.
What kinda fricked up mental gymnastics as you doing here?
You said the ideal trade for both the Pels and the Blazers would’ve been Jrue for CJ, Griff ended up trading Jrue for 2-3 times the value that it cost him to trade for CJ
Posted on 4/16/22 at 10:45 am to supe12sta12z
quote:Or Trey Murphys?
Much rather Griffin gamble on these type of moves over more rookies like Nickeils.
Posted on 4/16/22 at 10:47 am to shel311
Murphy was in a strong draft. That’s rare.
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