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re: CJ agrees to 2 year 64 million dollar extension
Posted on 9/25/22 at 4:52 am to NOSHAU
Posted on 9/25/22 at 4:52 am to NOSHAU
quote:
That is reserved for some of the upper echelon of players.
If a 32 year old CJ hit free agency, someone would throw him his max available deal. We see it every single year. Tobias Freaking Harris got a 30% max, they don’t “reserve it for upper echelon”.
The super max is what you’re thinking of which is 35%.
1
Posted on 9/25/22 at 5:03 am to NOSHAU
quote:
MLE? You are really being disingenuous with that comment.
That's not an insult. That is what solid starter receives. Especially one around his mid 30s and in decline.
quote:
CP3 was seen as a dump as well and later signed a 4 year/$120 million deal at 36. He proved to be the veteran leader that a young Suns team needed to propel them. That is the role a younger CJ plays for the Pels.
That is a massive stretch. Paul was a FA. He was also all NBA, an all star and had just led them from the lottery to the Finals. The Suns had no choice and had to overpay. Even then, the contract is only partially guaranteed. The 3rd year is only partially guaranteed. So it's more like a 2.5 year deal.
Posted on 9/25/22 at 6:33 am to brmark70816
Paul is 38, CJ is 30.
CJ is an elite shooter, Paul is not.
CJ as long as he avoids injury will be hitting 6 3’s a game with Zion taking all of the defenses attention.
CJ is far and away above a solid starter, that’s probably the most asinine statement you’ve made so far. He’s a top 10-15 guard in the league.
CJ is an elite shooter, Paul is not.
CJ as long as he avoids injury will be hitting 6 3’s a game with Zion taking all of the defenses attention.
CJ is far and away above a solid starter, that’s probably the most asinine statement you’ve made so far. He’s a top 10-15 guard in the league.
Posted on 9/25/22 at 7:01 am to brmark70816
quote:
That's not an insult. That is what solid starter receives. Especially one around his mid 30s and in decline.
Declining? Maybe slightly
A solid starter getting the MLE? Rare, unless they're a role player ie. Royce O'Neal. But that is far from the norm
And CJ is far from a role player. A legit 3 level scorer
This post was edited on 9/25/22 at 7:05 am
Posted on 9/25/22 at 9:03 am to Tigernation1290
quote:
Holy overpay
Bradley Beal's max starts at 56 mil
That is overpay
Posted on 9/25/22 at 9:05 am to Soggymoss
Glad to see Bmark is still in mid season form 
Posted on 9/25/22 at 9:13 am to DallasTiger45
quote:
Seems fair, I’d rather pay a little more in annual value to keep the years down. Looks like the Pels agreed
Inadvertent downvote. I love this deal.
Posted on 9/25/22 at 9:30 am to brmark70816
quote:
Those are premier PGs in a starved market. He has never put up that level of performance as a lead guard.
He put up 24/4/5, as the lead guard for us last year.
You don't think being a 20/5/5 player even at 33 without a significant injury history won't have some team overpaying 3/100mil on a higher salary cap?
quote:
No. In 2 years I believe he is closer to a mid-level exception type of starter. In the summer of 2024, I don't think anyone would have given him 50M guaranteed over 2-3 years.
Here's the top 8 combo guard/SG's over 30 right now:
Klay (32) 38mil
Harden (33) 34mil
Holiday (32) 33.7mil
McCollum (31) 33.3mil
DeRozan (33) 27.3mil
Hield (30) 23.5mil
Gordon (34) 18.9mil
Hardaway (30) 18.75mil
That's on their current deals. Klay has 2 years left and I guarantee you he'll get more than 30mil/yr.
Harden just signed his deal with the anticipation of a max (or near max) next year
Holiday is year 2 of 4 on his 4/135mil extension
all to say, at the very least he's getting at least 25mil from any other team.
quote:
He didn't take the contract out of generosity or kindness. Or some kind of hometown discount. He is a smart guy. It's a safe bet, especially with the uncertainty going into this season and how this group plays with each other and massive expectations.
Nobody said he took a discount, its a calculated risk and calculated bet.
He's 32, guarantee himself 64mil now or play out another 1-2 years and realistically get more. To gain 5mil-15mil isn't worth it near the tail end of his career.
quote:
I am not going to play revisionist history. I can link a bunch of articles and videos. He was not looked at as a good deal. Call it a dump, but we gave up very little to get him (plus got Nance). You don't get top players on good deals for what we gave up.
We gave up minimal to get him =/= worst contracts.
Worst contracts are what went on with Wall and Westbrook. There are no takers. They have to attach assets to move said players.
They got a pick and a starter in return for McCollum. that's neutral at worst.
quote:
It was a knee jerk move and short sighted. It was unnecessary, we could have done this next summer. If it's more expensive, then what does it matter? Everybody says the money doesn't matter. He gets more and we know it's a fit.
BTW, there is zero chance he turns down an extension next summer and "bets on himself". That is fantastical. If he played great, we would have overpaid. He couldn't get more elsewhere..
Its a calculated decision. Every offseason we hear some kind of nonsense from the media.
1. zion doesn't wanna be here
2. ingram and his injury concerns
3. pelicans in flux
4. organization not committed to winning.
Even if he isn't the piece, you said so yourself --- he isn't a net negative that we can't move.
This however does allow the team to have a solid foundation and a commitment to Zion that we are intent on winning. All because he signed that contract, does not mean he's gonna be happy for 5 years if the pelicans don't show a commitment to win. this is a way of showing that commitment. Every move you make, is about Zion and keeping Zion happy.
If this makes him happier, than you do it. point blank.
Posted on 9/25/22 at 9:47 am to htran90
CJ is obviously still an Allstar level player and it is pretty clear to me that a lot of things he can do really well were redundant with Dame so you didn’t really see him do it much but he obviously can.
Also you need to factor in the leadership he provides. The whole team was “different” in a great way when he arrived.
Also you need to factor in the leadership he provides. The whole team was “different” in a great way when he arrived.
Posted on 9/25/22 at 9:55 am to STEVED00
We’d be crazy to say the contract doesn’t come without risks, but we all knew that trading for him, and why CJ’s market was shrunk.
If he can play at even 85% of the level he did with us last year, it’s a completely movable contract.
The only concern, and it’s a big one, is if his time with us becomes more like his last seasons in Portland, mired by injuries from serious, to just frustrating in how they reduce his availability. And the concern of hitting the unlucky lottery and being one of the post 30’s undersized guards that crater.
But 2 years is a great framework. Cause even in a worst case scenario it’s short enough, and not large enough that it can’t be moved if forced. On the flip side, you get the CJ from last year and this is a piece toward a title contention for 3 years. And even if he starts to decline the last year, we have guards in development like Daniels that may be able to transition CJ into a 6th man role as he gets toward his mid 30’s
If he can play at even 85% of the level he did with us last year, it’s a completely movable contract.
The only concern, and it’s a big one, is if his time with us becomes more like his last seasons in Portland, mired by injuries from serious, to just frustrating in how they reduce his availability. And the concern of hitting the unlucky lottery and being one of the post 30’s undersized guards that crater.
But 2 years is a great framework. Cause even in a worst case scenario it’s short enough, and not large enough that it can’t be moved if forced. On the flip side, you get the CJ from last year and this is a piece toward a title contention for 3 years. And even if he starts to decline the last year, we have guards in development like Daniels that may be able to transition CJ into a 6th man role as he gets toward his mid 30’s
This post was edited on 9/25/22 at 9:58 am
Posted on 9/25/22 at 11:02 am to 50_Tiger
It’s amazing how many people he gets with his trolling. Honestly he’s one of the most effective trolls on this entire site.
Posted on 9/25/22 at 11:49 am to Soggymoss
quote:Harris was in his prime when he signed that deal. He was 26 or 27 if I recall.
If a 32 year old CJ hit free agency, someone would throw him his max available deal. We see it every single year. Tobias Freaking Harris got a 30% max, they don’t “reserve it for upper echelon”.
The super max is what you’re thinking of which is 35%.
Posted on 9/25/22 at 11:50 am to brmark70816
quote:Clearly you do not follow the NBA. How many solid starters with CJ's skill are getting MLE? Also, you are projecting a decline today based on what?
That's not an insult. That is what solid starter receives. Especially one around his mid 30s and in decline.
Posted on 9/25/22 at 12:26 pm to Soggymoss
Great deal for both sides.
Posted on 9/25/22 at 12:46 pm to NOSHAU
It is not now. He had 2 years left on his deal. We are projecting 2 years from now, the summer of '24. Taking all factors into account. He would be entering his age 33 season. Two years of being the 3rd/4th option and a borderline 20ppg scorer on a potentially middling team. No all stars, declining defender. Plus who knows how he adjusts to being a full time PG for the first time in his career.
All of that, yet people here are convinced we fooled him into taking this contract and he could have got way more in the summer of 2024. Cause some team was saving a max slot to throw it all at him at that time. Even if all of that somehow happened and he was a top 5 player in the league. We would have bird rights to trump any deal other's could offer. In retrospect, if he does become all world, he is going to be pissed he took this deal and want another extension then.
Math. Statistics. Data. Trends.
He is not a big guy. People can pull anecdotal examples all day. I can name counters 5 to 1. Players hit a wall. Some fade quicker than others. His skills should age really well. It shouldn't be a huge decline. Not quickly. But father time..
Also, I'm not saying this is a bad deal or maybe not even an overpay. There are worse, worse deals (Beal, Lillard). I just don't like the timing of it or the urgency. I want to see everybody play with Zion first and how it meshes. I want to stay flexible to make moves and adjust to his benefit, cause he is the show. That is our everything. Sometimes players just don't fit. We just bet a ton that it will..
All of that, yet people here are convinced we fooled him into taking this contract and he could have got way more in the summer of 2024. Cause some team was saving a max slot to throw it all at him at that time. Even if all of that somehow happened and he was a top 5 player in the league. We would have bird rights to trump any deal other's could offer. In retrospect, if he does become all world, he is going to be pissed he took this deal and want another extension then.
quote:
Also, you are projecting a decline today based on what?
Math. Statistics. Data. Trends.
He is not a big guy. People can pull anecdotal examples all day. I can name counters 5 to 1. Players hit a wall. Some fade quicker than others. His skills should age really well. It shouldn't be a huge decline. Not quickly. But father time..
Also, I'm not saying this is a bad deal or maybe not even an overpay. There are worse, worse deals (Beal, Lillard). I just don't like the timing of it or the urgency. I want to see everybody play with Zion first and how it meshes. I want to stay flexible to make moves and adjust to his benefit, cause he is the show. That is our everything. Sometimes players just don't fit. We just bet a ton that it will..
This post was edited on 9/25/22 at 1:44 pm
Posted on 9/25/22 at 1:17 pm to 50_Tiger
quote:
Glad to see Bmark is still in mid season form
No days off
Posted on 9/25/22 at 3:46 pm to brmark70816
Still waiting for that list of solid NBA starters on the level of CJ that are paid at the MLE level...
Posted on 9/25/22 at 5:32 pm to NOSHAU
quote:
Still waiting for that list of solid NBA starters on the level of CJ that are paid at the MLE level...
You are either reading impaired or being intentionally dishonest.
I never said he should make the MLE. I said in two years that would more than likely be the contract he commands.
But lets do this. Last season, there were less than 20 players in the league over the age of 35. 5 of those made over the "MLE".
7 players in the league 35 years old, all MLE.
10 players in the league 34 years old, 2 not MLE (Conley)
18 players in the league 33 years old, 5 not MLE
He would be 33 when he became a FA. That is 7 out of 35 guys, and most of those are bad deals now. So do your own research and cherry pick you out a couple of examples to show that McCollum would totally buck the trend and be the exception, rather than the rule..
Posted on 9/25/22 at 6:53 pm to brmark70816
How many of those 35 guys averaged over 20 ppg in their year 30 season? Your problem is that you are comparing CJ to the average NBA player and he is not an average NBA player. He’s averaged 20+ ppg every season that he has been a starter.
This post was edited on 9/26/22 at 7:33 am
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