re: Why doesn’t Dokken get more love?

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Scrub, listen to the entire Back for the Attack album except for Dream Warriors. It’s great.

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OK, will do. Are you saying you don't like Dream Warriors? It has my favorite Lynch moment of all - in the first measure of the solo, he does this incredible syncopated release of a bent note that gives me chills.

I’m sure the downvotes will rain down but I’ve been thinking about this very question for a while and I’ve arrived at a few key reasons Dokken never cracked the highest level.

There is no doubt George Lynch is a monster player. One of the last remaining monster players from those late 70s Hollywood club days. The man can play.

But that’s only one element, and arguably not the most important element for bands of that era.

I was into Dokken in the mid80s. Primarily because of Lynch. A great guitar player can interest me in a band, but for me to really keep listening, there needs to be more. And with Dokken, there are several ingredients missing IMO.

First for me, the mixes, especially the first few records. I remember listening to Hair Nation a few years back. At some point a Dokken song came on. Listening to that after a few other songs, it hit me why the track felt weak. The mix. Vocals were waaaay too hot and the guitar felt neutered. This was better by Back For The Attack (their best sounding 80s record IMO) but something was still missing.

This brings me to the tension in Dokken that started from before the inception of the band. Dokken was formed after Don stole two songs from Xciter, Geaorge and Mick’s band. Don went to Germany, recorded two songs without proper clearance (there is some dispute between G and D as to the actual deal agreed to). He then told G and M about it. Don wanted Mick to be in the band and he said only with George. George was already passed at Don for what he believes was theft but agreed to try to work with Don. George and Mick went to Germany to play with Don and record but left before the mixing of the first record because Don pissed them off. The original pressing of the record said “Don Dokken” on it until George got mad and Don took the “Don” off to just Dokken. George believe Don originally put his full name on it so that he could take the first name off and appear to be compromising when he wanted to call it Dokken all along. So from the very inception of the band there was trouble. It seems both George and Don have very demanding egos so it was likely always going to be a problem.

But I think this dynamic led to Don mixing himself too hot. And for my tastes and to my educated ear, Don isn’t the greatest singer. He is often flat. That doesn’t have to be a show stopper IF the singer has charisma, charm and can be a great frontman. See DLR.

This brings me to the second issue, for me the band never ever exuded fun or had character. Motley Crue, character. Poison, fun. Van Halen, fun. Again I think this is down to Don. Even Ratt, who didn’t have an MC kind of character still had some songs that were fun and exuded the 80s Sunset Dr party vibe. Dokken never exuded that vibe to me.

Third, songcraft. This is somewhat related to the above but a bit broader. With only a few exceptions, most of the songs were quite formulaic and a bit trite. Again, this isn’t a showstopper if the songs are fun. Poison made a career that way.

There were times, a lot of times, while listening to a new Dokken record I knew exactly what was going to be sung next in a song. Because while the vibe, riff, subject may have been different that before, the song writing bag of tricks was limited. Many times Don’s lyrics feel like they have the rhyme scheme of a decent High School writer, not awful but at times still falling back to hackneyed technique. And while George is a monster soloist, the riffs rarely exploded like VH or felt like they got out of a narrow band of metal tropes.

I kind of look at 80s hard rock/metal as being in two strata of popularity. The top, VH, Maiden, Priest, Metallica, Lep etc. And the rest, Loudness, Autograph, later Quiet Riot etc. There were elements that worked but still missing that spark or dynamism to push it to the next level. Dokken always seemed caught in between the two. Definitely better than a LOT of what was coming out but still missing that artistic voice to separate them.

Again, I think that comes back to Don. I get the sense Don was often viewed as a guy with talent but lacked “it”. Even back in the 70s by his peers in the local scene.

I know this seems like a long treatise bashing the group, esp Don, but I do think these are some of the reasons the band didn’t achieve the highest level. Still, they achieved a lot and do have some classic material. I just think they were hamstrung by internal issues and limited artistic vision. I honestly think they got as much as they could out of situation. And while not being VH or even Poison, 99% of the bands attempted in the 80s would kill for Dokken’s career.

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Agreed, except for the mild Poison bashing.

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Lol wasn’t trying to bash Poison. But they did build a career on the party vibe. Nothing wrong with that but with a few exceptions they weren’t really trying to write meditations on the meanings of human existence. Different horses for different courses.

Yes, the productions were just missing that glue that made them pop. My sense is this was Don’s way. Maybe guided out of ego, or just his aesthetic.

Johnqpublic, your analysis is spot on. Ask most guys who listened to hard rock in the 80’s & they know Dokken songs. Ask women from the same time period & they will probably admit they don’t remember much about Dokken. While MTV played their videos, they didn’t stand out in the party vibe that women liked(see Motley, Poison, Bon Jovi) & didn’t have a hot lead singer. Guys like me worshiped George Lynch’s axmanship.

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First for me, the mixes, especially the first few records.

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Agree, Into the Fire sounds like it was recorded through a Dixie cup and yarn.

johnqpublic, I appreciate your response! You write with a keen critical eye that I lack unfortunately, so it’s always educational to see such a well crafted critical response!

There actually is another band I would like your opinion on, if you don’t mind. What are your thoughts on Winger? Like Dokken, they are another 80’s band whose music I really enjoy. I feel like they have caught a lot of flak over the years and don’t get enough credit, despite being phenomenal musicians. What is your take on them?

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My question today is why isn’t Dokken mentioned in the same breath as bands like Motley Crue, Poison, and Def Leppard

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Because those bands had more hits, popularity and longevity?
Dokken was okay. I had Beast from The East and recall a few good songs overall.

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What are your thoughts on Winger? Like Dokken, they are another 80’s band whose music I really enjoy. I feel like they have caught a lot of flak over the years and don’t get enough credit, despite being phenomenal musicians. What is your take on them?

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I know you didn't ask me, but...I think Winger is really good (a lot better than Dokken!). For one thing, the production was pretty smokin'. They also - despite being essentially a super-group of professional musicians - still looked like they were having fun.

My favorite song is "Hungry". I think it actually was a single, but it's still somewhat obscure. When it comes on 38, I absolutely crank the shite out of it. Also, Reb Beach was a monster.

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“Battle Stations” from the second Bill and Ted movie.

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Yep. Great soundtrack! The Megadeth song (Go to Hell) is one of their best.

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But a Dokken notebook sticker got you into the smokers lounge.

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Came here to say something like this.

I always thought Don Dokken's Kung Lao arse looked like such a fricking a-hole. Johnqpublic's anecdotes about him pretty much confirm it.

And, yeah, most successful hair metal bands seemed to exude fun. Dokken's audience seemed like little fricking a-hole adolescent males in denim jackets who just wanted to get stoned and kick your arse for no reason.