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re: Why is Avatar not considered to be 'woke' when it's a critique of colonialism etc?
Posted on 1/4/23 at 12:11 pm to TigerDeacon
Posted on 1/4/23 at 12:11 pm to TigerDeacon
when Avatar came out it was immediately recognized as the political, leftwing hogwash that it is. just because the word "woke" wasnt being used doesnt mean that everyone doesnt know what it is.
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Posted on 1/4/23 at 12:14 pm to blueboy
The spectacle and FOMO is a big part of it, but the A Cinemascore means the vast majority of people leave happy.
And fact is, it stands out from other blockbusters in that it is distinctly different from the sorts of blockbusters normally released. It's not just another superhero or Nth iteration of the same blockbuster franchise. It's an original world and lore built from the ground up for cinemas at a scale and spectacle that you have to go back to OG Star Wars to really find. And a story that isn't the same cookie-cutter studio stuff. Even if calling it simplistic and predictable is true.
And fact is, it stands out from other blockbusters in that it is distinctly different from the sorts of blockbusters normally released. It's not just another superhero or Nth iteration of the same blockbuster franchise. It's an original world and lore built from the ground up for cinemas at a scale and spectacle that you have to go back to OG Star Wars to really find. And a story that isn't the same cookie-cutter studio stuff. Even if calling it simplistic and predictable is true.
Posted on 1/4/23 at 12:18 pm to JetsetNuggs
quote:It's actually kind of an anti-immigration theme.
I don't mind themes about protecting nature and your home from invaders.
Posted on 1/4/23 at 12:54 pm to Bronc
quote:That's not necessarily a reflection on the story, but the fun of the spectacle.
the A Cinemascore means the vast majority of people leave happy.
Also, I've said for years that having woke stuff in a movie won't inherently make it bad. My best recent example is Fury Road, which is filled with feminist messaging but is still an excellent film.
Posted on 1/4/23 at 1:02 pm to blueboy
quote:
That's not necessarily a reflection on the story, but the fun of the spectacle.
Perhaps, perhaps not. But it becomes rather pointless arguing about whether we think audiences love it for the visuals, the story, or both.
But I don't think you return to a 3 hour "theme park" movie if there arent other aspects compelling you to do so, or pass on the word for others.
If crazy visuals alone could give you Avatar returns, why haven't more CG heavy films pulled off these types of legs and audience's affection?
Logic to me just tells me this isn't just the cinematography and CG.
This post was edited on 1/4/23 at 1:05 pm
Posted on 1/4/23 at 1:25 pm to Bronc
When the first one game out it was miles ahead of everyone technically and became this phenomenon.
Now it’s a franchise.
But there is a reason Avatar went from the biggest movie ever, to basically a movie I’ve never had a conversation about since.
That’s because the story is boring. The characters are weak. And the world is dumb.
They use their hair plugs for mating and dominating animals. Thats dumb.
Now it’s a franchise.
But there is a reason Avatar went from the biggest movie ever, to basically a movie I’ve never had a conversation about since.
That’s because the story is boring. The characters are weak. And the world is dumb.
They use their hair plugs for mating and dominating animals. Thats dumb.
Posted on 1/4/23 at 1:31 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
But there is a reason Avatar went from the biggest movie ever, to basically a movie I’ve never had a conversation about since.
That’s because the story is boring. The characters are weak. And the world is dumb.
They use their hair plugs for mating and dominating animals. Thats dumb.
And yet the second one is about to smash post-Covid records and go on to be one of the top-grossing films of all time...You don't get that just from mindless CG. If you did, Warcraft would have been a 2 billion-dollar film.
There is clearly a formula Cameron has that isn't just "pretty visuals" when he consistently puts out these audience-loved films across a range of genres.
Posted on 1/4/23 at 1:46 pm to Bronc
quote:
And yet the second one is about to smash post-Covid records and go on to be one of the top-grossing films of all time...You don't get that just from mindless CG. If you did, Warcraft would have been a 2 billion-dollar film.
No you get that with mindless cutting edge CGI + a known movie franchise based on theatre experience.
You can’t compare what’s going on in World of Warcraft to Avater.
Posted on 1/4/23 at 1:48 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
No you get that with mindless cutting edge CGI + a known movie franchise based on theatre experience.
Warcraft was one of the most popular franchises in gaming/nerdom history, it had actual cultural roots with a huge audience, with cutting edge CGI...and it failed miserably at the box office.
At some point you need to acknowledge that Avatar is more than this lazy take you have. Especially when it is doing record-breaking numbers in places like India, South Korea, and parts of Western Europe that either didn't have Avatar 1 or didn't go see it en masse.
This post was edited on 1/4/23 at 1:51 pm
Posted on 1/4/23 at 1:51 pm to Bronc
quote:
Warcraft was one of the most popular franchises in gaming history, it had actual cultural roots with a huge audience, with cutting edge CGI...and it failed miserably at the box office.
Like every other video game
Movie
quote:
At some point you need to acknowledge that Avatar is more than this lazy take you have.
It’s a dumb fricking movie everyone forgot as soon as it was out of theatres. How many times have you watched avatar at home?
The international market will see any CGI movie you out out there and the more you market it the more they watch.
Warcraft made 391 million international compared to 47 million domestic
This post was edited on 1/4/23 at 1:54 pm
Posted on 1/4/23 at 1:56 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
It’s a dumb fricking movie everyone forgot as soon as it was out of theatres. How many times have you watched avatar at home?
You mean the film that broke DVD/Blu Ray sales records and set off an industry-wide wave of 3D TV sales???? That film no one watched outside theaters?
LINK
Come on man, normally I respect your takes, but you are doing that thing people like Kaiju and Landshark do where you let your emotions take over your logic and reasoning centers and begin denying facts and trends cause you personally hate something.
Posted on 1/4/23 at 2:31 pm to CAPEX
Woke is not a criticism of historical fact but rather a distortion of history with blame to be had for parties who did not take part in the history. It's not woke to say that slavery was wrong; it's woke to punish modern Americans for it. I haven't seen the sequel, but criticizing earthlings for invading another planet and destroying its natural resources is not woke.
Posted on 1/4/23 at 2:46 pm to Bronc
quote:It's not just heavy CGI, it's the state of the art in film tech, and it's an immersive 3D experience. There's a reason they need to make 2 bil. to turn a profit.
If crazy visuals alone could give you Avatar returns, why haven't more CG heavy films pulled off these types of legs and audience's affection?
I think with the first one, Cameron knew all he had to do was have a story that was satisfying in some way and let the visuals do the rest. This is why no one cares about it when it comes on TV and the film loses all of that visual power.
Posted on 1/4/23 at 2:49 pm to Bronc
Have you watched it outside of theatres?
Posted on 1/4/23 at 2:55 pm to Saint Alfonzo
quote:
oe Saldana, in any color, is fine.
i find this especially funny since she's in 3 different colors usually.
i also have to imagine what star trek camp was like for her and rachel nichols.
Posted on 1/4/23 at 2:59 pm to blueboy
quote:
There's a reason they need to make 2 bil. to turn a profit.
Cam clarified that was him talking some shite
But that's a side topic
quote:
It's not just heavy CGI, it's the state of the art in film tech, and it's an immersive 3D experience.
And I'm not claiming the spectacle of it all has no or even just a minor role in the formula. Clearly part of his success is the way in which he creates "event" films that illicit FOMO and feel best seen in theaters. That in Avatar's case are on the cutting edge of tech.
But dig into any of the reviews and besides the visuals, people genuinely like the story and characters.
Frankly if you dissect his films he does have a lot of shared formulas and ways in which he crafts and tells his stories that I think is much more interesting to dissect than people endlessly tryignt to pretend the general public secretly hates his stories and characters and films outside the visuals.
Posted on 1/4/23 at 3:04 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
Have you watched it outside of theatres?
Yes, I actually remember flying during Thanksgiving to my Mother's and my Step Dad all excited cause he had bought a new giant 3D TV and a bunch of extra glasses and everyone could watch Avatar 3D at home the day after Thanksgiving. The nieces and nephews and kids that came back over for "movie night" were ecstatic.
But not sure what point you are trying to make. You made a statement that no one cared about the film outside theaters and I showed you how it broke DVD records, so clearly objective, non-anecdotal evidence shows that Avatar consumption was not just due to theatrical spectacle.
This post was edited on 1/4/23 at 3:07 pm
Posted on 1/4/23 at 3:10 pm to Bronc
quote:
Yes, I actually remember flying during Thanksgiving to my Mother's and my Step Dad all excited cause he had bought a new giant 3D TV and a bunch of extra glasses and everyone could watch Avatar 3D at home the day after Thanksgiving. The nieces and nephews and kids that came back over for "movie night" were ecstatic.
You are kind of making everyone's point. You were excited because of the 3D aspect of it. Outside of that, you probably have not re-watched it. I mean you see Shawshank on TV every week but rarely is Avatar in circulation.
No dog in this fight.
Posted on 1/4/23 at 3:14 pm to CAPEX
I’m not a big fan of either Avatar movie. I saw it with Dances With Wolves, already. But, what’s wrong or woke with critiquing colonialism? The American Revolution was a critique of colonialism. America has often struggled when we took that Euro-empire model for our own. What the US did to Native Americans was really terrible, and a lot of white Americans said so at the time. Right is right and wrong is wrong and it isn’t “woke” to say so.
Posted on 1/4/23 at 3:14 pm to LSUPERMAN
quote:
You are kind of making everyone's point. You were excited because of the 3D aspect of it. Outside of that, you probably have not re-watched it. I mean you see Shawshank on TV every week but rarely is Avatar in circulation.
No dog in this fight.
No, people were excited to watch the movie AND the 3D spectacle at home.
However, the 6.7 million DVD sales in 4 days weren't accompanied by a 3D TV purchase as an attachment. If they would have been we'd still see 3D Tv's today.
The vast majority bought the film to consume it in old 2D, many on non-HD Tv's at the time.
So what is the explanation for why it broke DVD sales records, if not, GASP, people happened to actually like the film?
This post was edited on 1/4/23 at 3:17 pm
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