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Why did Star Wars, GoT, and others not live up to expectations?

Posted on 10/2/20 at 2:03 pm
Posted by BitBuster
Lafayette
Member since Dec 2017
1439 posts
Posted on 10/2/20 at 2:03 pm
Star Wars, Game of Thrones, Lost, Battlestar Galactica, and I'm sure others.
All had tremendous success to start out, and an infinite budget for development.
What, exactly, caused them to fail?

Deviations from original material?
Too much money?
Writing by comittee?
Commercial driven story?
Posted by iwyLSUiwy
I'm your huckleberry
Member since Apr 2008
34267 posts
Posted on 10/2/20 at 2:05 pm to
I dont know if I can handle a Star Wars, GoT, and LOST thread all in one.
Posted by Dr RC
The Money Pit
Member since Aug 2011
58063 posts
Posted on 10/2/20 at 2:06 pm to
Head canon is a hell of a drug.
Posted by dawgfan24348
Member since Oct 2011
49264 posts
Posted on 10/2/20 at 2:10 pm to
shite writing
Posted by Midget Death Squad
Meme Magic
Member since Oct 2008
24544 posts
Posted on 10/2/20 at 2:11 pm to
Same reason The Vols keep failing at football
Posted by JetsetNuggs
Member since Jun 2014
13910 posts
Posted on 10/2/20 at 2:12 pm to
Regardless of how people feel about those franchises, the rabid fanbases will never be satisfied
Posted by TotesMcGotes
New York, New York
Member since Mar 2009
27873 posts
Posted on 10/2/20 at 2:15 pm to
quote:

Regardless of how people feel about those franchises, the rabid fanbases will never be satisfied

The “you can’t satisfy everyone” crowd loves to overlook that Avengers set a bar impossibly high and they satisfied the masses and then some. It’s a cop out for a shot product.
Posted by TigerintheNO
New Orleans
Member since Jan 2004
41187 posts
Posted on 10/2/20 at 2:15 pm to
quote:


Deviations from original material?


for GoT it started to go to shite, once it got past where the books ended
Posted by tiggerthetooth
Big Momma's House
Member since Oct 2010
61228 posts
Posted on 10/2/20 at 2:16 pm to
Writers and producers decided to personalize the story for themselves instead of continuing for the sake of the viewers.
Posted by Damone
FoCo
Member since Aug 2016
32735 posts
Posted on 10/2/20 at 2:17 pm to
Star Wars tried to deviate from the formula.

GoT showrunners got bored with the source material and wanted to move onto something else.
Posted by BloodSweat&Beers
One Particular Harbor, Fl
Member since Jan 2012
9153 posts
Posted on 10/2/20 at 2:18 pm to
quote:

for GoT it started to go to shite, once it got past where the books ended


The books are a mess after the 3rd
Posted by kingbob
Sorrento, LA
Member since Nov 2010
67079 posts
Posted on 10/2/20 at 2:28 pm to
Game of Thrones failed largely because without the book material to fall back on, the show writers struggled to write the dialogue that made the series so compelling. GRR Martin wrote excellent dialogue.

In addition, budget constraints changed the pace of the show. Past Season 5, as the show ran out of book material, HBO put increasing pressure to wrap up the story in just 8 seasons. They also cut the number of episodes per season in the final 2. Game of Thrones made its living as a slow burn, full of great dialogue, beautiful world building, intricate plots, and excellent character development. It basically lost all 4 of those things during the course of the final 3 seasons. In my opinion, the final end conditions of Westeros weren’t terrible, but the way the show rushed to meet that end cheapened all of the payoffs which we should have received along the way. It felt like we read 2/3 of the way through a novel and then rushed to wikipedia to read the ending spoilers.

Star Wars was a victim of “fast track construction”. In the construction world, many design-build projects are built “fast-track” style, where construction on early phases begins before design of the later phases is completed. This can result in a faster and cheaper building process or can result in a massive clusterf$&k of critical path delays where much of the work must be redone over and over. Basically, the Disney Star Wars Trilogy was built without a clear plan from the start with the idea that the later phases would be designed while the early phase was being built. However, by changing architects twice midstream, a lot of pieces didn’t fit, but rather than go back and tear down the previous phase so that it fits the new design or fix the new design to fit the old one, they just slapped it all together and told us to like it, and that if we don’t, then we must hate women or something like that.

Lost, as a tv series, has a similar issue to Star Wars in that the entire story isn’t written before they start working. Maybe the first couple seasons were written with a cohesive story line, but as they kept getting renewed, the writers had to keep finding new ways to keep the story going. Eventually, they just ran out of tropes and wrote themselves into a corner they could not easily escape from.

The Hobbit failed for two reasons: trying to stretch too little source material into too much screen time, and over-reliance on computer-driven effects over conventional makeup, costume, animatronics, and pyrotechnics. What results is a bloated trilogy that is true to the books, but way too long (the hobbit is a short and sweet novel), and just straight up looks bad.
Posted by theGarnetWay
Washington, D.C.
Member since Mar 2010
25863 posts
Posted on 10/2/20 at 2:32 pm to
quote:

Game of Thrones failed largely because without the book material to fall back on, the show writers struggled to write the dialogue that made the series so compelling. GRR Martin wrote excellent dialogue.


I honestly don't think them running out of book material was as big a factor as many people say. Some of the best moments in the entire series weren't in the books (Hardhome, Arya-Twywin exchanges, Battle of the Bastards, Hold the Door, Battle of Gold Road, several of Lyanna Mormont's scenes, Arya killing the Freys etc.).

Did it become more difficult from them to write from a series that suddenly ran out of source material mid-story? I'm sure it did. But people over exaggerate when it started going down hill and became hyper critical before Season 8 had even aired.

The issue is that by all accounts Beinoff and Weiss were absolutely done with GOT and couldn't be done with the show fast enough so that they could move on.

ETA: And don't get me wrong, there was a lot of shite at the end. But I just think it has more to do with the writers being lazy than the lack of original source material.
This post was edited on 10/2/20 at 9:35 pm
Posted by Jay Are
Baton Rouge
Member since Nov 2014
4841 posts
Posted on 10/2/20 at 2:35 pm to
While the writing shouldn't be let off the hook, expectations for these massive properties weren't met partially because of the expectations. Once it's decided that something is unimpeachably great, it's hard to maintain that level of quality.
Posted by kingbob
Sorrento, LA
Member since Nov 2010
67079 posts
Posted on 10/2/20 at 2:46 pm to
Yet there is no denying that the quality of the dialogue declined tremendously in the last two seasons, particularly in respect to Tyrion, Jon Snow, and the Spyder.
Posted by tigahbruh
Louisiana
Member since Jun 2014
2858 posts
Posted on 10/2/20 at 2:55 pm to
quote:

Star Wars, Game of Thrones, Lost,


Star Wars:
Prequels- Lucas way past his prime and should have stayed away from scripting and directing. Other than the first Star Wars (retroactively retitled "A New Hope"), the original trilogy was scripted and directed by other people with consulting and guidance from Lucas. SHouldve handled the same way for prequels.
Episodes 7-9 were just desperate attempts to appeal to younger audiences. Always gonna make for a shitty product.

GoT: The showrunners ran out of source material and got a synopsis from the author/creator. With less to work on, they realized they had a LOT of loose ends to tie off. Then, due to budgeting or their desire to be done with the project, they went too far too fast in resolving the loose ends and did not allow time for the late character arcs to gel with with viewers. Examples - the one big battle to end the White Walker threat (which felt empty) and Dany's "quick change" to evil, murderous dragon lady. The foreshadowing was definitely in place for her turn and her actions completely made sense with her established character, but the showrunners' follow through was rushed and clumsy, making it unbelievable for many, especially those who didnt see it coming (I did, yet still felt the way in which it was done was questionable).

Lost: The allure of Lost, other than fun characters, was all of the mystery/conspiracy/supernatural stuff that led to more and more questions. It created a mythology that was compelling. After a few seasons, though, it became clear that the writers had no goddamn idea what the resolution was going to be. They were obviously making it up as they went along. The dangers of TV success. You create a pilot to get your show picked up and then have a good idea for the first season or two. Then, as success continues, you have to keep it going and don't want to plan for a definite end because lots of money is getting made by keeping it going so long as people are watching.
Then, by the time ratings are down, so are original ideas and you've created a bunch of storylines that make no coherent sense for a satisfying overall resolution.
Posted by Athos
Member since Sep 2016
11878 posts
Posted on 10/2/20 at 3:05 pm to
BSG dealt with the writers strike and constant threat of cancellation.

As bad as season 4 got, it’s still superior to GoT and SW. and it’s excuse for sucking is actually legitimate though I don’t think it was that bad if you take out the Gaius sex cult thing.
Posted by kingbob
Sorrento, LA
Member since Nov 2010
67079 posts
Posted on 10/2/20 at 3:07 pm to
Don’t forget that Lost started before the writers strike. Back then, hour long tv dramas had 26 episodes in a season rather than 10 or 12. That’s a lot more time to fill each year.
Posted by Tigerdew
The Garden District of Da' Parish
Member since Dec 2003
13594 posts
Posted on 10/2/20 at 3:08 pm to
quote:

Regardless of how people feel about those franchises, the rabid fanbases will never be satisfied



This is pretty much the answer. The people making these movies/shows have an impossible task because those fanbases are WAY too deep into the story.
Posted by RollTide1987
Augusta, GA
Member since Nov 2009
65082 posts
Posted on 10/2/20 at 3:10 pm to
quote:

Battlestar Galactica


quote:

What, exactly, caused them to fail?


Did not fail. Did it get shaky there for a moment? Yeah. But the show ended up sticking the landing and is now remembered fondly as one of the greatest science fiction shows of all-time. Star Wars, Game of Thrones, and Lost all failed to stick the landing and are not remembered as fondly as Battlestar Galactica. In fact...the way Star Wars and Game of Thrones ended their stories destroyed any rewatchability those two franchises had.

You can't say the same for Battlestar Galactica. While it did drift a little in season three, it still had solid episodes throughout that season and I feel like it recovered well in its fourth and final season.
This post was edited on 10/2/20 at 3:11 pm
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