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re: Was Star Wars always planned to be a trilogy/much larger story?
Posted on 12/26/19 at 6:01 pm to Philzilla2k
Posted on 12/26/19 at 6:01 pm to Philzilla2k
Just for those not around in the 1960's-70's and 80's from IMDB.
Akira Kurosawa made this commercial and accessible film as a way to repay Toho Studios for allowing him to make riskier, more artistic fare such as Rashomon (1950). It was later one of the greatest inspirations for George Lucas' Star Wars: Episode IV - A New Hope (1977).
Several of his films have been remade in America as westerns. Seven Samurai (1954) ("The Seven Samurai") was remade as The Magnificent Seven (1960), and Yojimbo (1961) ("The Bodyguard") was remade as A Fistful of Dollars (1964). In addition, The Hidden Fortress (1958) ("The Hidden Fortress") was a major inspiration for the "Star Wars" saga, which takes many inspirations from westerns and is often referred to as a space western. Common story elements include Gen. Makabe, who became Obi-Wan Kenobi; Princess Yuki, who became Princess Leia and whose trick of disguising herself as a handmaiden would later be used by Queen Amidala; and the farmers from whose viewpoint the film is told, Matashichi and Tahei, whose constant bickering inspired C-3PO and R2-D2.
Akira Kurosawa made this commercial and accessible film as a way to repay Toho Studios for allowing him to make riskier, more artistic fare such as Rashomon (1950). It was later one of the greatest inspirations for George Lucas' Star Wars: Episode IV - A New Hope (1977).
Several of his films have been remade in America as westerns. Seven Samurai (1954) ("The Seven Samurai") was remade as The Magnificent Seven (1960), and Yojimbo (1961) ("The Bodyguard") was remade as A Fistful of Dollars (1964). In addition, The Hidden Fortress (1958) ("The Hidden Fortress") was a major inspiration for the "Star Wars" saga, which takes many inspirations from westerns and is often referred to as a space western. Common story elements include Gen. Makabe, who became Obi-Wan Kenobi; Princess Yuki, who became Princess Leia and whose trick of disguising herself as a handmaiden would later be used by Queen Amidala; and the farmers from whose viewpoint the film is told, Matashichi and Tahei, whose constant bickering inspired C-3PO and R2-D2.
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Posted on 12/26/19 at 6:09 pm to Philzilla2k
Oh. Oops. Well, there had been talk of prequels since before Jedi came out. I remember my friends talking about the rumors at the time. The Clone Wars were always the presumed plot.
Posted on 12/26/19 at 6:37 pm to Philzilla2k
quote:
Not sure if trolling but that was added later.
Yes, it was added for the Star Wars rerelease prior to the Empire premier
Original crawl
I don’t consider myself an aficionado but I didn’t know that and I’ve watched the OT no less than 30 times.
Posted on 12/26/19 at 6:52 pm to blueboy
quote:
Star Wars, opening word crawl says it's "Episode IV." I thought it was pretty obvious.
Posted on 12/26/19 at 7:51 pm to tigger1
quote:
And no it is not based on early stuff, watch the movie The Hidden Fortress, Lucas change the window dressing to a space movie, changed the two peasants to R2D2 and C3PO, the princess is kept and Mifume's role becomes Obi-wan. It is right down the line Hidden Fortress. Luke was the older woman, Hans the friend of Mifume that joins them as the movie runs.
I read the article. But the hero’s journey is what I was referring to. That’s like a really old concept.
Posted on 12/26/19 at 8:39 pm to Harry Caray
quote:Nah, nobody had the slightest clue that there would be a sequel.
You're probably right in that it was made at the time as a stand alone, but with the thought of sequels being a possibility. So I wouldn't say he "lucked out" with Vader so much as he left Vader (and the Emperor) alive with the intention of building on their roles if and when future movies became a reality.
He wanted to make a nostalgic, swashbuckling Errol Flyn-type adventure, a modern big-budget take on the Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers serials. He fully expected it to be a one-shot, which is why character is so stereotyped.
As I remember some early writing, the Emperor was some lame figurehead for the Generals and Deep State bureaucrats who really ran the Empire. Luke and Leia were clearly destined to be together, Han was just providing romantic tension as the cool older bad boy.
Then it blew every box office record up, and it was time to make some sequels
The story changed significantly moving into Empire.
Posted on 12/26/19 at 8:47 pm to tigger1
quote:
All Lucas did was change it to space knight and hero tell.
The Criterion Collection DVD interview with Lucas is a must watch. He goes through The Hidden Fortress talking about which elements he pilfered while also talking about how his version is so much different.
Posted on 12/26/19 at 10:25 pm to The Boat
Lots of somewhat true answers in this thread
But bottom line is he wasn’t sure the original would be successful and thus didn’t have the ultimate trilogy planned until after the success of Star Wars.
For instance, he never he planned for Vader to be Luke’s father until halfway through filming Empire
ETA: not halfway through filming empire, but well into actually writing the script
But bottom line is he wasn’t sure the original would be successful and thus didn’t have the ultimate trilogy planned until after the success of Star Wars.
For instance, he never he planned for Vader to be Luke’s father until halfway through filming Empire
ETA: not halfway through filming empire, but well into actually writing the script
This post was edited on 12/26/19 at 10:30 pm
Posted on 12/26/19 at 10:30 pm to OBReb6
quote:
For instance, he never he planned for Vader to be Luke’s father until halfway through filming Empire
The name Vader isn't random. Lucas had to have something in mind when he chose that name originally.
Posted on 12/27/19 at 6:25 am to The Boat
quote:
Was Star Wars always planned to be a trilogy/much larger story?
there was no plan. Star Wars/Ep 4 itself was re-written countless times and really was put together in the editing room
Lucas likes to talk a lot (and did so back in the 70s) so you can find clips where he talks about it being part of a bigger story, but THE STORY WE GOT (Empire and ROTJ) were nowhere close to what was in his head. Lucas is the type who will list 1,000 ideas and maybe 10 end up being filmed and 3 survive the cutting room, so it's easy to reconstruct the past by finding things he said and ignoring that fact.
Posted on 12/27/19 at 8:49 am to tigger1
quote:
And no it is not based on early stuff, watch the movie The Hidden Fortress, Lucas change the window dressing to a space movie, changed the two peasants to R2D2 and C3PO, the princess is kept and Mifume's role becomes Obi-wan. It is right down the line Hidden Fortress. Luke was the older woman, Hans the friend of Mifume that joins them as the movie runs.
It was based off of early stuff as well. Yes Hidden Fortress helped with the direction but Kurosawa’s film did that for a lot of film makers. Lucas was even quoted as he has said that the similarities between Star Wars and The Hidden Fortress are “more of a coincidence than anything else”
Again Kurosawa's work was instrumental in many films like the Magnificent Seven and other westerns that are some of the best. Hence why Lucas used it as an example due to SW being a space western. But Lucas also drew a lot of inspiration from Joseph Campbell and his book The Hero With a Thousand Faces.
Posted on 12/27/19 at 9:01 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Star Wars/Ep 4 itself was re-written countless times and really was put together in the editing room
Lucas stated he was having trouble writing the story for the a movie as he was trying to reel in his ideas. He did have an overall picture of what he wanted to do but needed to narrow it down. The material left out of ANH he thought could be used for a sequels but they were not written yet.
As mentioned in 1975 he reread Joseph Campbell's The Hero with a Thousand Faces and was able to complete his final draft of ANH.
Posted on 12/27/19 at 9:03 am to The Boat
I imagine if Lucas got to tell his full story, it would have gone like this:
Prequels: Fall of the Jedi; Establishment of the Empire
- Palpatine gains control
- Vader becomes the perfect complement to the Emperor
- Hope is lost as the Jedi are no longer
OT: Rise of Luke Skywalker; Defeating the Empire
- Jedi become a myth that people forget about
- Empire showcases unimaginable power (Death Star)
- Luke Skywalker learns the ways of the force and helps defeat the empire
- Vader fulfills his destiny by bringing order to the force (death of both Sith)
New Trilogy: Building the New Jedi; Bringing Order to the Galaxy
- Luke Skywalker trains new Jedi
- Bad guys try to take power
- As Luke ages and dies (honorably), his new Jedi regain control of the galaxy
- Probably something to show the sith will not return
Prequels: Fall of the Jedi; Establishment of the Empire
- Palpatine gains control
- Vader becomes the perfect complement to the Emperor
- Hope is lost as the Jedi are no longer
OT: Rise of Luke Skywalker; Defeating the Empire
- Jedi become a myth that people forget about
- Empire showcases unimaginable power (Death Star)
- Luke Skywalker learns the ways of the force and helps defeat the empire
- Vader fulfills his destiny by bringing order to the force (death of both Sith)
New Trilogy: Building the New Jedi; Bringing Order to the Galaxy
- Luke Skywalker trains new Jedi
- Bad guys try to take power
- As Luke ages and dies (honorably), his new Jedi regain control of the galaxy
- Probably something to show the sith will not return
Posted on 12/27/19 at 9:08 am to TideWarrior
One of the more the more amazing things was the budget, the common use of things for special effects, and how Industrial Light & Magic's (ILM) changed the way special effects were integrated into movies.
The budget for the film was $11 million and as someone mentioned Fox was the only one giving Lucas a chance and they were not convinced it would sell. But they gave him $150k to write, direct, and produce the film, but also gave him the rights to the sequels if they take place.
Some of my favorites for sound effects:
TIE fighter sound effect by combining an elephant call with a car driving on wet pavement.
Storm trooper Laser The sound of a hammer on an antenna tower guy wire
The budget for the film was $11 million and as someone mentioned Fox was the only one giving Lucas a chance and they were not convinced it would sell. But they gave him $150k to write, direct, and produce the film, but also gave him the rights to the sequels if they take place.
Some of my favorites for sound effects:
TIE fighter sound effect by combining an elephant call with a car driving on wet pavement.
Storm trooper Laser The sound of a hammer on an antenna tower guy wire
Posted on 12/27/19 at 9:09 am to StringedInstruments
quote:
Prequels: Fall of the Jedi; Establishment of the Empire
- Palpatine gains control
- Vader becomes the perfect complement to the Emperor
- Hope is lost as the Jedi are no longer
Lucas’ biggest mistake in the whole saga is centering Episode I around a child Anakin. He wasted an entire film that, in the grand scheme of things, is completely irrelevant to the rest of the saga. This forced him to really rush Anakin’s turn to the dark side. He has to use the entire second film developing Anakin’s character and then turn in him in the third.
Had Lucas used Episode I to actually introduce and develop Anakin, then he could have Anakin turn in Episode II and then we would have had Darth Vader in Episode III with a real war between Sith and Jedi.
Posted on 12/31/19 at 11:42 pm to The Boat
No, I didn’t make myself clear. He said this in the 70s
Posted on 1/1/20 at 12:29 am to Barrister
quote:
No, I didn’t make myself clear. He said this in the 70s
quote:I thought he said that while working on ROTJ, or Empire.
While the stories were not planned, the answer is "Yes"....I specifically remember Lucas saying that he felt this was a 9 installment story and that Star Wars was the beginning of the middle trilogy
Sometime fairly early, but after Star Wars had already blown up.
Same thing could be said with the MCU... you put Iron Man out, it does well. You put in a couple other movies, Thor and Cap America, with the tie-ins... and they do well- Voila, you have always been building towards The Avengers. And they did toss Thanos into that, so they can now claim they always planned this 20 something movie stretch.
But truth is, Iron Man was basically a one-off, with a great storyline if it takes off.
Same thing for Star Wars but without the public comic resources. Lucas crafted a galaxy in his head, populated by Jedi, Sith, and a sprawling interstellar government, with lots of little people on the periphery. He suddenly had the chance to develop that.
If Firefly had survived, I wonder about Whedon's vision of that system, with the dual American/Chinese heritage. Clearly there was a lot of backstory involving Earth-That-Was, and we never get much of it.
Posted on 1/1/20 at 1:12 am to Antonio Moss
quote:
Had Lucas used Episode I to actually introduce and develop Anakin, then he could have Anakin turn in Episode II and then we would have had Darth Vader in Episode III with a real war between Sith and Jedi.
That’s what I thought should have happened. Phantom was wasted other than a badass saber duel.
Posted on 1/1/20 at 1:49 am to The Boat
For those that are big Star Wars fans but haven't read any of the books. I highly recommend that you read the Thrawn trilogy by Timothy Zahn. It is fantastic and they could have used this as the basis for a new set of movies along with several other books.
Disney or even Lucas before just needed to have some balls and be willing to recast Luke, Leia, Han, and Lando.
FYI, when Disney bought Star Wars all the books written up to that point were made non-canon. However, the Thrawn character was so good and compelling that Disney put him into the Rebels animated series. Hopefully we'll see more of him at some point in The Mandalorian or somewhere else.
https://www.goodreads.com/series/42348-star-wars-the-thrawn-trilogy
Disney or even Lucas before just needed to have some balls and be willing to recast Luke, Leia, Han, and Lando.
FYI, when Disney bought Star Wars all the books written up to that point were made non-canon. However, the Thrawn character was so good and compelling that Disney put him into the Rebels animated series. Hopefully we'll see more of him at some point in The Mandalorian or somewhere else.
https://www.goodreads.com/series/42348-star-wars-the-thrawn-trilogy
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