re: True Detective S1E6 "Haunted Houses"

quote:

---

Yeah, the show is great and I'm all in, but it's not TV Christ.

---

This
I'm amused by the over-the-top defense of this show. It's definitely one of, if not the best, show on TV currently. But the intolerance by fans of anyone anywhere with any criticism of any aspect of TD is silly. As good as it is, it's not perfect. I don't see why fans can't accept that. It's as amusing as the pre airing jack off fest that starts around here on Sunday mornings in anticipation of an episode. Lighten up peeps and enjoy the ride. Criticism of an episode doesn't lessen your enjoyment of it. At least it shouldn't.

quote:

---

I think that has a lot to do with it, especially on this board. The Lost discussion threads were SO fricking indepth and every single little detail of every episode was scrutinized to no end. And let's face it, that was Abrams and crew's intent a lot of times. And also don't get me wrong, I loved every minute of it. But I think that has led people to basically overanalyze every single show like that.

---

Agreed. Which is why this show's creator came right out and said, essentially: "Don't read too deep into this; I am not trying to trick you. Why do you think I'm out to trick you? Because TV shows have tried to do that again and again in the past 12 years?"

He addressed it head-on. Can't blame him.

The LOST writers/creative staff do deserve a lot of blame. They gave interviews and made podcasts where they actively ecouraged over-examination and then went further by creating online games and quests and side-stories. Not to mention that in-show they made dead-end mystery after mystery to keep the whole community of speculation and therefore interest in the show agoing. They were the first to merge show fandom with the internet in a broad and deliberate way. In the process, they created a monster because they made stuff up as they went along but they did not have an overall story map and plan with a purpose in the narrative for the side stories and mysteries they made up, so in the end there were too many loose ends to ever tie together. They doomed themselves to disappointing a large number of people who they intentionally lead on over the years.

I think True Detective is really the anti-LOST, but too many people are watching it with the programming LOST's creators instilled in them, expecting every little thing to be a clue, expecting massive revelations, expecting a huge plot twist, and ignoring the writer, who said himself that, other than the flashback narrative structure, this show is straight-forward - you can put it all together as it goes along and not be worried you are being tricked.

quote:

---

He's basically McNulty (which you LOVED)

---

for the record, mcnutty doesn't change at all. he's the same guy each season. he's the unwavering moral compass

everything else changes (while staying the same in the bigger picture)...and that is how i think this show wraps up (mainly b/c i doubt seriously the cult can "stay the same" unless it is never cracked/busted up). that's one reason i want to pin down what people expect now. the expectations of the show have decreased over the past 7 episodes, but people aren't willing to acknowledge it. i do and i'm the villain

it's not about me being "right" as much as it is ending the shifting of the goal posts. it seems that i'm being stubborn b/c i haven't wavered, while everyone else is being more flexible by changing expectations

i'll give you an example. like 2-3 eps ago i brought up my concerns about the pacing (especially with the present storyline). i was told not to worry b/c we'd have 3-4 eps...now it's 2. next week it will be 1. if they don't resolve the "present" nobody will be right (including me), but i bet there will be a ton of people who shift their expectations again.

quote:

---

But maybe the characters "changing" isn't integral to the plot at all. And if that is the case, you're destined to hate it because that's what you want...change. There has been PLENTY of characterization on this show. Plenty.

---

well as VOR pointed out, it could be a character study, and not really a show about developing the characters

but i went through the list of all the ways we can see the show. if it's not a show about characters, fine. if it's not a show about plot/story, find. but what else is left except for the metaphysical examination that was basically set in stone by episode 2? that's what all of that was about (it wasn't to shite on each aspect but more ask: what is this show?)

quote:

---

to be fair, isn't that what lawyers do?

---

not really. that's tv lawyers. most lawyers just negotiate and do paperwork under a system of procedure/rules

quote:

---

The LOST writers/creative staff do deserve a lot of blame. They gave interviews and made podcasts where they actively ecouraged over-examination and then went further by creating online games and quests and side-stories. Not to mention that in-show they made dead-end mystery after mystery to keep the whole community of speculation and therefore interest in the show agoing.

---

and didn't answer hardly anything as the show went on, ironically

quote:

---

I think True Detective is really the anti-LOST, but too many people are watching it with the programming LOST's creators instilled in them, expecting every little thing to be a clue, expecting massive revelations, expecting a huge plot twist, and ignoring the writer, sho said himself that, other than the flashback narrative structure, this show is straight-forward - you can put it all together as it goes along and not be worried you are being tricked.

---

to be fair, though, it is (1) a mystery-detective story and (2) it has had a lot of symbolism and forshadowing

quote:

---

the expectations of the show have decreased over the past 7 episodes, but people aren't willing to acknowledge it. i do and i'm the villain

---

I don't get this at all. The expectations for the quality of the show haven't decreased. Are you talking decreasing expectations as in people are realizing the plot isn't as convoluted as viewers were theorizing?

My expectations of the show have never waivered from the beginning, because the quality of the acting/writing/directing are all great.

quote:

---

i'll give you an example. like 2-3 eps ago i brought up my concerns about the pacing (especially with the present storyline). i was told not to worry b/c we'd have 3-4 eps...now it's 2. next week it will be 1. if they don't resolve the "present" nobody will be right (including me), but i bet there will be a ton of people who shift their expectations again.

---

Most people are waiting until the show is wrapped up before they begin to criticize or appreciate pacing. That's not shifting expectations.

quote:

---

Most people are waiting until the show is wrapped up before they begin to criticize or appreciate pacing. That's not shifting expectations.

---

well i should have done this weeks ago, but we still haven't really seen "the present" so i guess it's ok

what is the show and what do you expect?

me speculating at the past likely risks confirmation bias, so we can cure that by having it stated in real time now. then next week. then in 2 weeks. we can see if people do shift or remain constant

quote:

---

what is the show and what do you expect?

---

The show: True Detective on HBO

What I expect: to be entertained

So far the show is meeting my expectations.

quote:

---

what is the show and what do you expect?

---

What do you mean? Are you asking my expectations for how the show wraps up?

quote:

---

me speculating at the past likely risks confirmation bias, so we can cure that by having it stated in real time now. then next week. then in 2 weeks. we can see if people do shift or remain constant

---

Shift or remain constant in what though? That people said they had time to wrap up the story?

quote:

---

which character has developed, other than maggie?

---

Character development does not mean "characters developing" or changing as your question suggests. It refers to the process by which the writer reveals the character, his traits, his tendencies, how he responds to stimuli, the way he thinks and processes, the way he interacts, his motivations, etc. it allows the reader/viewer to make a determination as to what kind of person the character is. MP has been killing it in terms of character development in this show.

Probably the best character development I've seen in a tv show aside from Deadwood (RIP).