re: .

Jon Snow is pretty dumb

no, flawed is one thing. their poor decisions are often attributed to honor (and there is compulsivity at work here) but i'm talking about a diminished capacity for thought. the flawed hero may make a choice knowing the potential consequences or break certain rules or principles to achieve a just end, but the starks make choices without an understanding of potential consequences. ned walked into the throne room in front of everyone to make his move. he took it as an absolute certainty that littlefinger and by extension his leverage in the situation (the city watch)stood with him and didn't even consider they could betray him. cat never considers that she has endangered her husband and children by taking Tyrion Lannister. robb wants to return to winterfell after theon takes it and doesn't consider he is abandoning all territories gained and that his men will abandon him. he thinks they'll abandon him because winterfell was sacked. Bolton has to explain it to him. sansa doesn't understand the lannisters are her enemy or the threat Joffrey poses to her until her father is beheaded. or maybe she does and she is so desperate to be queen she would betray her family up to a certain point. bran does not understand he has left winterfell even more vulnerable than it already was by sending Rodrick and the remaining forces that aren't fighting for robb to fight the ironborn.


not flawed...stupid.

OP with a blazing hot take.

it's more nuanced than that...is he a better person? sure, but just the same his actions have the same consequences on the people.

I'd say naive more than stupid.

Actually Jon Snow is a Stark

for ned it's a combination of things...honor, naivety, unfamiliarity, etc. I think he's demonstratively stupid, but for cat...god she's annoyingly stupid. surprisingly she did counsel robb well at times, but he ignored her (specifically warning against sending theon to pyke, warning robb not to kill karstark and her suspicion regarding the freys)

of course had she not freed Jaime, the red wedding would not have happened because tywin wouldn't risk Jaime being murdered in retaliation. again, she's too stupid to know that she's endangered her son by releasing Jaime and has no guarantee that sansa and arya will be returned or that they're even alive.

quote:

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She thinks tyrion gave an assassin a traceable weapon. She also doesn't consider that any one of his siblings or other lannisters came into possession of it through tyrion in some way or that it was made to look like tyrion to throw people off the real culprit's scent OR that littlefinger is lying about the blade belonging to tyrion. She is the gold standard of stupid

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Just the use of a Valyrian Steel blade, Christ the person had to be an idiot. And said person was Joffrey, so.

Agree. I have never liked the Starks, with that said, if Rhaegar and Layanna are really his John Snow's parents, and the theory is true that they were in love and in a full rebellion against Aerys, then I can see why Ned has kept them stupid for the most part. That would have put Robert as an enemy to the Starks (which would include the Lannisters) and at the time the Targaryens.