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re: The Rings of Power Season 2 - first 3 episodes release August 29th, 2:00 AM Central
Posted on 9/4/24 at 2:43 am to Jay Are
Posted on 9/4/24 at 2:43 am to Jay Are
I love this series and don’t care that Tolkien isn’t being honored. Don’t care about the books because I am not a nerd who has read them multiple times. Also glad that I am not so vested in being a lifelong Tolkien worshipper that I would be so miserable and argumentative to the point of being psychotic about the show.
Posted on 9/4/24 at 8:52 am to Scoob
quote:
The other guy, I think is the Witch King prior to becoming a Nazgul. Note: he commands witches (hence witch king ), and he sent those witches to find Sauron and help him... this makes him both powerful, and loyal to the cause. That fits the profile for the Witch King, who will be Sauron's second in command and most trusted servant.
*It's fine that a mortal is a sorcerer, as the Wise thought the Necromancer was "simply" a human sorcerer. They didn't instantly think it had to be a Maia. That implies that sorcery was indeed a thing.
The Ring he receives will be a reward, immortality in the service of the Dark Lord. Sauron may not tell him of the side effects (blind loyalty without free will, turning into a wraith).
Not saying this is wrong but the witch king was a lord of Numenor and was corrupted by one of the rings of power. Seems like this guy is corrupted already
Posted on 9/4/24 at 8:58 am to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
Not saying this is wrong but the witch king was a lord of Numenor and was corrupted by one of the rings of power.
It is believed he was a prince IIRC. The Witch King became more popular by Peter Jackson's adaptation of the films. He is the king/lord of the Nazgul and and previous ruler of Agmar as well.
Posted on 9/4/24 at 9:03 am to TideWarrior
I have not watched any of the new season. My sons have and though do not hate it it said it felt rushed. Like they are trying to fit to much in early to get to something big near the end.
I really do not hate the show but it offers very little in entertainment for me. It is nothing more than a money grab hoping to profit off of Peter Jackson's movies by taking the big names in his story and putting them back on the screen. Yes I agree everything about the show for the most part goes against the lore in the books but Jacksons's movies were not exact either but at least they was a solid story and entertaining.
The show has an audience and if people enjoy it so be it.
I really do not hate the show but it offers very little in entertainment for me. It is nothing more than a money grab hoping to profit off of Peter Jackson's movies by taking the big names in his story and putting them back on the screen. Yes I agree everything about the show for the most part goes against the lore in the books but Jacksons's movies were not exact either but at least they was a solid story and entertaining.
The show has an audience and if people enjoy it so be it.
Posted on 9/4/24 at 9:07 am to TideWarrior
Just looking it up a little further, it looks like it's assumed the witch king was actually a sorcerer. I never knew that. That would fit the character they are showing. I just assumed a wizard because of the staff, the followers, and because he's searching out the other wizard but I guess he could just be a sorcerer.
Posted on 9/4/24 at 9:18 am to iwyLSUiwy
I am curious as the new episode I believe Tom Bombadil will be in it this week. Curious how he is used and very little lore on him as a character that would prevent him from this time/age.
Posted on 9/4/24 at 9:26 am to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
That would fit the character they are showing. I just assumed a wizard because of the staff, the followers, and because he's searching out the other wizard but I guess he could just be a sorcerer.
I assume this currently in the show this season? I know it is believed he was one of the Black Númenóreans.
Posted on 9/4/24 at 12:37 pm to TideWarrior
quote:Bombadil is "first and oldest", he would be in Middle Earth from the beginning. He's not mentioned in the First Age, as he never appears to travel to Beleriand (which is where all the First Age stuff took place). His statement
I am curious as the new episode I believe Tom Bombadil will be in it this week. Curious how he is used and very little lore on him as a character that would prevent him from this time/age.
quote:That sets him BEFORE Melkor corrupted Arda. It was Melkor that made the night fearful, and that happened before Melkor was captured the first time. First raindrop and acorn goes back before the Age of the Trees.
"Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn [...] he knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless — before the Dark Lord came from Outside"
Short answer, Bombadil was absolutely there, somewhere.
quote:Yes, this season.quote:
That would fit the character they are showing. I just assumed a wizard because of the staff, the followers, and because he's searching out the other wizard but I guess he could just be a sorcerer.
I assume this currently in the show this season? I know it is believed he was one of the Black Númenóreans.
Season 1 had the 3 witches (we called them priestesses of Morgoth) searching for Sauron. Season 2 establishes this guy as their boss.
Could it be a Black Numenorean? Technically, yes- Numenor was all about the sea, and there's a couple brief passages in the Silmarillion that they had sailed everywhere (except the Undying Lands, which was banned). So in theory, they had sailed all the way to Middle Earth's Eastern shores, exploring the world. And what limited references are in the books, at no point did they find a civilization more advanced than theirs, they were always the more advanced.
It's also mentioned that Men were in the East, still under the Shadow. The 3 Houses of the Edain left and went West to escape it, and don't discuss it. And most of them left for Numenor, so most of the Men that were in Middle Earth indeed were corrupted.
So there's every possibility that a Numenorean sailed East and set himself up, while simultaneously embracing the darkness. He would have resented the Ban.
Posted on 9/4/24 at 1:06 pm to Scoob
quote:
"Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn [...] he knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless — before the Dark Lord came from Outside"
That sets him BEFORE Melkor corrupted Arda. It was Melkor that made the night fearful, and that happened before Melkor was captured the first time. First raindrop and acorn goes back before the Age of the Trees.
Short answer, Bombadil was absolutely there, somewhere.
That doesn't necissarily mean he was there on middle earth (or wherever the show places him) in physical form. It's kind of pointless trying to be definitive about Tom as Tolkien wanted him to be a mystery but just as a personal opinion, I've always thought of him as one of the Vala. If that were the case, he would have been there for the first raindrops/acorn, etc. and seen it, just not in his form from LOTR.
I personally don't like that they are including him in this. Though it's pretty obvious fan service.
Posted on 9/4/24 at 1:07 pm to Scoob
The actors who play both Durins act circles around the rest of the cast. They’ve nailed those roles. Disa’s actress is pretty solid as well. I know how people feel about her skin color and playing a dwarf but she’s doing a damn fine job too.
I like Elrond too but man, Galadriel’s actress just isn’t hitting for me. I thought maybe it was just first season jitters and Elves are supposed to be more reserved but Elrond is reserved and he’s just so much better on screen than she is it’s not even funny.
I like Elrond too but man, Galadriel’s actress just isn’t hitting for me. I thought maybe it was just first season jitters and Elves are supposed to be more reserved but Elrond is reserved and he’s just so much better on screen than she is it’s not even funny.
This post was edited on 9/4/24 at 1:08 pm
Posted on 9/4/24 at 1:53 pm to iwyLSUiwy
quote:Tom Bombadil was an inclusion from some of his other works, and not necessarily his "history of the Eldar" epic. He was tossed in, just as elements of the Elven lore was... such as the Tower of Ecthelion and the Seven Gates of Minas Tirith originally were in the tale of Gondolin.
That doesn't necissarily mean he was there on middle earth (or wherever the show places him) in physical form. It's kind of pointless trying to be definitive about Tom as Tolkien wanted him to be a mystery
The Elven lore allowed for the integration of LOTR into what became the Silmarillion. Bombadil, not so much.
quote:I've seen and considered that theory and others, but the Wise doesn't think Bombadil has the power to withstand Sauron's coming at the last. Any Vala would swat Sauron away without a sweat singlehandedly; and if Bombadil is, so is Goldberry- so that would be TWO of the Valar. So definitely no chance of Sauron winning.
but just as a personal opinion, I've always thought of him as one of the Vala. If that were the case, he would have been there for the first raindrops/acorn, etc. and seen it, just not in his form from LOTR.
And the two most likely candidates are Tulkas/Nessa, and Aule/Yavanna... I would rule Tulkas out, since I believe he'd go straight to Mordor and grab Sauron as soon as he showed his head.
As for Aule, there's no evidence of him making things (Aule's thing), while Goldberry does kinda fit Yavanna... but again, I would think Aule would have a thing to say to both Sauron and Saruman, since they were under him. None of the Valar would sit idly by, if they bothered to go to Middle Earth.
My guess is that Bombadil could be slotted into one of the Maiar, more interested in hanging around the world he created, and not so interested in the doings of the Children of Illuvatar. And as such, not automatically powerful enough to defeat Sauron, as they'd be peers.
Sort of like Melian, who hung around in Middle Earth (but not interested in ruling), and helped only because she loved Thingol. Bombadil and Goldberry could be like her, but even more detached, just watching Arda grow.
Posted on 9/5/24 at 10:26 am to Scoob
I find it hilarious when people in this thread are like “That’s not in the books!!!!”
Tolkien didn’t exactly leave an abundance of specific information about the second age. He would literally describe 100 years of events in one paragraph.
For example, almost nothing is said about Isildur until right before the Fall of Númenor. I guess some people just want him to sit on his hands in Númenor for the first 3 seasons or whatever. I think it’s pretty cool the writers are using his story to show us Pelargir and other places.
Anyone who attempted to make a show or movie was always gonna have to fill in some gaps.
They’ve actually followed the main points in Númenor story pretty faithfully, although they didn’t have Pharazon force Miriel to marry him, which is probably a good decision.
That being said, there are some things this show did that I don’t like. I agree the mithril backstory was a bad idea. It’s actually kind of creative, but the silmarils are too essential to the history of middle earth to meddle with.
I also agree Galadriel should not have been a warrior, but I’m not super hung up on it.
There are things this show has done very well. The transformation to Annatar and his deception of Celebrimbor saying he’s a servant of the Valar was actually well done.
Tolkien didn’t exactly leave an abundance of specific information about the second age. He would literally describe 100 years of events in one paragraph.
For example, almost nothing is said about Isildur until right before the Fall of Númenor. I guess some people just want him to sit on his hands in Númenor for the first 3 seasons or whatever. I think it’s pretty cool the writers are using his story to show us Pelargir and other places.
Anyone who attempted to make a show or movie was always gonna have to fill in some gaps.
They’ve actually followed the main points in Númenor story pretty faithfully, although they didn’t have Pharazon force Miriel to marry him, which is probably a good decision.
That being said, there are some things this show did that I don’t like. I agree the mithril backstory was a bad idea. It’s actually kind of creative, but the silmarils are too essential to the history of middle earth to meddle with.
I also agree Galadriel should not have been a warrior, but I’m not super hung up on it.
There are things this show has done very well. The transformation to Annatar and his deception of Celebrimbor saying he’s a servant of the Valar was actually well done.
This post was edited on 9/5/24 at 10:35 am
Posted on 9/5/24 at 1:07 pm to diddlydawg7
Loading Twitter/X Embed...
If tweet fails to load, click here. BTW, I'm really enjoying the 'REE IT'S IN THE LORE' arguments regarding the orcs and their loving families. Yeah, Tolkien mentioned basic procreation and didn't want to label any creature as irredeemable. Ergo, it's not incredibly lame and ridiculous for orcs to have loving families.
Keep it up.
Posted on 9/5/24 at 1:24 pm to diddlydawg7
quote:We don't know that it's actually true. When Elrond tells the tale of the Elf and the Balrog, he prefaces it by saying "It's a tale that many don't believe" or something of the sort.
That being said, there are some things this show did that I don’t like. I agree the mithril backstory was a bad idea. It’s actually kind of creative, but the silmarils are too essential to the history of middle earth to meddle with.
It LOOKS true as of now, but if it's a con, it should look true.
quote:I can see both sides of that argument. People are wound up because she isn't the same character we see in LOTR; but the show's intent is clearly that she and Elrond will have grown and changed over the several thousand years between this show, and the later War of the Ring.
I also agree Galadriel should not have been a warrior, but I’m not super hung up on it.
It IS written that she was originally feisty, prideful, and desired to rule her own kingdom, and she both left Valinor in search of that, and later refused the pardon and summons to return there after the War of Wrath. Not a lot of details on that, but the fact is she remained in Middle Earth, and even moved East away from the West (Valinor) and became more secluded.
The show has been clumsy at times, which hasn't helped- but is also not unexpected when dealing with an iconic character.
Posted on 9/5/24 at 2:02 pm to blueboy
That’s extremely normal for a highly anticipated spin off
House of the Dragon Season 1 premiere had 2.6M as compared to 1.3M in Season 2 premiere
House of the Dragon Season 1 premiere had 2.6M as compared to 1.3M in Season 2 premiere
This post was edited on 9/5/24 at 2:05 pm
Posted on 9/5/24 at 2:20 pm to diddlydawg7
Actually about 10 mil. vs. 7.8 mil. across all platforms, understandable seeing as how S1 debuted during the covid lockdowns.
On the other hand, ROP had a huge number of viewers bail on them DURING season 1. And that ain't typical or unremarkable.
On the other hand, ROP had a huge number of viewers bail on them DURING season 1. And that ain't typical or unremarkable.
Posted on 9/5/24 at 2:54 pm to Scoob
quote:
We don't know that it's actually true. When Elrond tells the tale of the Elf and the Balrog, he prefaces it by saying "It's a tale that many don't believe" or something of the sort.
It LOOKS true as of now, but if it's a con, it should look true.
That part can't be defended. It's already proved that's what they're going with, not a con. It's already keeping the elves souls alive and the light of the trees going. You knew that was true even when Elrond put the mithril on the table and the leaf immediately healed itself. It's dumb. ANd to me the biggest disregard to the lore that they've done so far. It's the thing that tells me they don't really grasp the essence of what they are adapting. Changes like this that make me not have a problem with people who say this is their version of Tolkien, not Tolkien's.
quote:
I can see both sides of that argument. People are wound up because she isn't the same character we see in LOTR;
I would rather her be the version we read about. I have no doubt that Galadriel would be a bad arse warrior if needed to be, some earlier descriptions Tolkien made kind of confirms that she probably could be. He just never wrote anything that showed she actually was. Honestly what bothers me more about her character even more than her being a warrior is her armor. Looks like some combination of Gladiator and a knight of the round table armor. Not even remotely close to something the elves would wear. Some dumb massive plated armor. Ugh. Make her a warrior, whatever. At least make her look like an elven warrior.
Posted on 9/5/24 at 2:54 pm to blueboy
quote:
Actually about 10 mil. vs. 7.8 mil. across all platforms, understandable seeing as how S1 debuted during the covid lockdowns.
Those are the world numbers, what I posted was the US numbers, which is what you established earlier.
At least remain consistent.
Posted on 9/5/24 at 3:56 pm to diddlydawg7
And your numbers are based on premiere night, not overall premiere week, during which HOTD more than made up the slack. ROP doesn't seem to have.
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