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The real tragedy of the ending of 1917 (Spoilers)
Posted on 10/19/20 at 10:11 am
Posted on 10/19/20 at 10:11 am
For those of you who have seen the movie, you know that Schofield saves the day and manages to tell Colonel Mackenzie to call off the attack before too much damage can be done to his battalion. But if you know your history you know that Schofield's heroics and Tom's sacrifice were all for nothing. The film takes place between April 6-7, 1917. On April 9, two days later, Mackenzie's battalion would have received orders to attack the German position in what would become known as the Battle of Arras. Some 158,000 British soldiers would be killed or wounded in five weeks of fighting. While the battle ended up being a minor British victory, strategically it meant nothing in the grand scheme of things.
It's very likely that Tom's brother would wind up being killed in the offensive anyway.
It's very likely that Tom's brother would wind up being killed in the offensive anyway.
9
Posted on 10/19/20 at 10:12 am to RollTide1987
quote:
manages to tell Colonel Mackenzie
was i the only one who was amazed when the actor was revealed? granted i had read nothing about this movie prior to seeing it except the heralded 'one continuous shot' filming technique.
Posted on 10/19/20 at 10:16 am to RollTide1987
quote:
strategically it meant nothing in the grand scheme of things.
Virtually no assault on the Western Front from 1914 to 1918 meant anything after The Miracle on the Marne.
Millions died for literally nothing.
Posted on 10/19/20 at 10:20 am to RollTide1987
Which was the point of Benedict Cumberbatch's scene.
Posted on 10/19/20 at 10:29 am to RollTide1987
Very interesting thanks for sharing
Posted on 10/19/20 at 10:29 am to GetCocky11
quote:
Which was the point of Benedict Cumberbatch's scene.
Yep. That's what I love about that scene though I feel like it was lost on mainstream American audiences. World War I is not taught in our schools at all. It is a MUCH bigger deal in Europe and for obvious reasons. In fact, even in Britain, there is a much greater emphasis placed on World War I than on World War II.
Posted on 10/19/20 at 10:38 am to CAD703X
I remember seeing his name credited and it didn’t hit me until that scene like oh yeah.. I’d forgotten he was supposed to be in this movie
But I loved 1917... I thought it was amazing and truly why we go to the movies. It was so immersive and the way it was shot was beautiful
But I loved 1917... I thought it was amazing and truly why we go to the movies. It was so immersive and the way it was shot was beautiful
Posted on 10/19/20 at 10:44 am to RollTide1987
quote:
Yep. That's what I love about that scene though I feel like it was lost on mainstream American audiences. World War I is not taught in our schools at all. It is a MUCH bigger deal in Europe and for obvious reasons. In fact, even in Britain, there is a much greater emphasis placed on World War I than on World War II.
Yeah, the number is truly staggering.
Going by deaths only - which doesn't include wounded - the US has "only" had about 1.35 million Americans die in combat in all of our wars combined (if Wikipedia is to be believed).
In WW1 alone:
Germany - 2.037 million
Britain - 740-880K
Including other soldiers from other British Empire colonies/countries from India/Canada etc. - 949,000-1,118,264 million
France - 1.357-1.397 million
Russia - 1.7-2.25 million
Austria-Hungary - 1.2-1.494 million
This post was edited on 10/19/20 at 10:44 am
Posted on 10/19/20 at 11:25 am to RollTide1987
You should check out They Shall not Grow Old on HBO. Gives the accounts of the end of the First World War in fantastic detail. I warn that it is extremely gruesome. And there are things that are told that no man should ever have to witness in their life time. Men were straight up dying in sinking mud where they would yell for help and no one could get to them.
Posted on 10/19/20 at 1:24 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
strategically it meant nothing in the grand scheme of things.
I take your point, but this statement also applies to everything on the Western Front between the Marne and the 1918 spring offensives.
Posted on 10/19/20 at 1:47 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
But if you know your history you know that Schofield's heroics and Tom's sacrifice were all for nothing.
That's usually the case in war.
Especially one as futile as WWI...see the futile and pointless attacks at Gallipoli or Paths of Glory where the commanding officers could've been charged with murder.
Posted on 10/19/20 at 2:22 pm to mattchewbocca
Check out the Hardcore History Podcasts in WW I, just amazing work
Posted on 10/19/20 at 3:50 pm to CAD703X
I was equally as surprised. Rare to see a movie where a character is played by someone so unexpected.
Posted on 10/19/20 at 4:33 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
That's what I love about that scene though I feel like it was lost on mainstream American audiences. World War I is not taught in our schools at all. It is a MUCH bigger deal in Europe and for obvious reasons. In fact, even in Britain, there is a much greater emphasis placed on World War I than on World War II.
Its a travesty that WW1 and the events which precipitated it receives as little emphasis as it does.
The time period and events between 1871 and 1914 contain valuable lessons about current events.
Sad that multiple generations of Americans are totally ignorant of the impact that era has on shaping the modern world. Damn near every geopolitical issue which currently exists got its roots in the time just before, during, and after WW1
Posted on 10/19/20 at 4:34 pm to Tackle74
quote:
Check out the Hardcore History Podcasts in WW I, just amazing work
Blueprint for Armageddon is the title of the podcast series, in case anyone is interested. They are long, but absolutely fantastic and comprehensive.
Posted on 10/19/20 at 5:29 pm to RollTide1987
WWI explains a lot about the attitude and appetites of the Brits and the French right before WWII. Given what they'd been through, it's easy to understand why they wanted no part of that shite show again.
It's also interesting to think about the demographic impact that WWI, WWII, and the Stalinist purges on England, France, and Russia. Think about the culling of the gene pool in all three instances and the long term impact on those countries of that. I think it does a lot to explain the gangster in a track-suit archetype of modern Russians.
It's also interesting to think about the demographic impact that WWI, WWII, and the Stalinist purges on England, France, and Russia. Think about the culling of the gene pool in all three instances and the long term impact on those countries of that. I think it does a lot to explain the gangster in a track-suit archetype of modern Russians.
Posted on 10/19/20 at 5:57 pm to coolpapaboze
quote:
WWI explains a lot about the attitude and appetites of the Brits and the French right before WWII. Given what they'd been through, it's easy to understand why they wanted no part of that shite show again.
I do blame the French for WWII even over Germany. They wanted payback to the Germans so bad that regardless if there was a Hitler or not, the Treaty of Versailles signed WWII in blood. If America had to pay that level to say China if we lost a war with them, WWIV would be ensured a generation later. It was an extreme miscalculation specifically to limit Germany’s army to 100K, because then you only need twice the amount of thugs to take down the German Army and have a fascist or communist revolution that are a much bigger threat to you than a Capitalist or Kaiser led Germany.
Posted on 10/19/20 at 6:04 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
For those of you who have seen the movie, you know that Schofield saves the day and manages to tell Colonel Mackenzie to call off the attack before too much damage can be done to his battalion. But if you know your history you know that Schofield's heroics and Tom's sacrifice were all for nothing. The film takes place between April 6-7, 1917. On April 9, two days later, Mackenzie's battalion would have received orders to attack the German position in what would become known as the Battle of Arras. Some 158,000 British soldiers would be killed or wounded in five weeks of fighting. While the battle ended up being a minor British victory, strategically it meant nothing in the grand scheme of things.
Isn’t that sort of the point of the movie? The brass didn’t really care if they completed the mission. If they do, great but if not what is a few thousand lost: they sent the only person with the motivation to maybe do it.
The point of the movie is watch a beautiful piece of film making but that’s message about WW1 that I took from it
Posted on 10/19/20 at 6:16 pm to Dire Wolf
I was thinking about that during the movie. The Brit’s lost 2,500 (or whatever the number was) soldiers before breakfast during the Great War.
Still a marvelous piece of film.
Still a marvelous piece of film.
Posted on 10/19/20 at 8:16 pm to CAD703X
quote:
was i the only one who was amazed when the actor was revealed?
You mean Wimbledon Tennismatch?
This post was edited on 10/19/20 at 8:17 pm
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