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re: The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power S1, Episode 3 Thread | Amazon | Available Now

Posted on 9/11/22 at 10:47 am to
Posted by Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
12646 posts
Posted on 9/11/22 at 10:47 am to
quote:

I dont Love the theory but I’ll admit the evidence is there to support it. It’s going to be weird if she shows up and KNOWS Halbrand is Sauron and they just don’t listen to her vs being just distrustful of Annatur.


I’ve also heard a lot of compelling theories that ultimately Halbrand will end up as one of the kings or the king of the undead.

Both of which could work narratively, and be a bit less obvious and simplistic
Posted by SammyTiger
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Feb 2009
79455 posts
Posted on 9/11/22 at 10:54 am to
There is a lot that makes me think Sauron, but he doesn’t seem to be in control enough to be Sauron.

He’s manipulative to but incredibly successful at it. He is supposed to convince People to forge rings of power but he can’t talk his way into a. Guild?
Posted by OMLandshark
Member since Apr 2009
120445 posts
Posted on 9/11/22 at 10:57 am to
quote:

it was giving Galadrial more import and strengthening her as a character.


But they’re weakening her character. Giving Galadriel a sword and armor makes her weak. Really in Middle Earth only Sauron, Durin’s Bane, Smaug, the Witch King, Gandalf, and Saruman stand any chance against her. She’s not a spring chicken in the Second Age and is pretty much undeniably the most powerful elf of the Second and Third Ages. Only Fëanor was her superior according to Tolkien himself, but Fëanor completely lacked wisdom which led to his and his house’s downfall. She’s just a bitch in this show who complains.
This post was edited on 9/11/22 at 12:20 pm
Posted by Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
12646 posts
Posted on 9/11/22 at 11:01 am to
You haven’t watched the show and refuse to so your opinion of how her characterization in the series paints her has zero value in this discussion. You literally have no first hand knowledge of anything about this adaption and how it presents anyone

Furthermore, as we looked at in the other thread and here, her character is one of a steady flux through Tolkien’s life. So you can have your opinion about warrior Galadrial, but there is text that can be interpreted to that effect and so far, she comes off sufficiently badass in the show, but not to the point of a Mary Sue, which is almost how you paint her powers as needing to be to satisfy you. And if you had watched the show, you would have seen in episode 2 them addressing the idea of time and wisdom between elves and other races, and how the human idea of more age = more wisdom is not so clear cut, or even true
This post was edited on 9/11/22 at 11:38 am
Posted by OMLandshark
Member since Apr 2009
120445 posts
Posted on 9/11/22 at 11:04 am to
quote:

You haven’t watched the show


Galadriel doesn’t have a sword. It’s blasphemous to the character.

quote:

So you can have your opinion about warrior Galadrial, but there is text that can be interpreted to that effect and so far, she comes off sufficiently badass in the show


Galadriel never went to Numenor or jumped off a boat to swim back a thousand miles to Middle Earth. As powerful as Galadriel is, she would have drowned.

quote:

but not to the point of a Mary Sue


The only people not calling her a Mary Sue are you and Binger. Even Grace Randolph who is Woke as all frick says she’s not only a Mary Sue but a Karen as well.
Posted by Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
12646 posts
Posted on 9/11/22 at 11:09 am to
Cry moar bitch

quote:

Eregion is in the North and Galadriel was a commander there.

quote:

Galadriel chose [Eregion] because she knew of the Dwarves of Khazad-dûm (Moria). ... she perceived from the beginning that Middle-earth could not be saved from "the residue of evil" that Morgoth had left behind him save by a union of all the peoples who were in their way and in their measure opposed to him. She looked upon the Dwarves also with the eye of a commander, seeing in them the finest warriors to pit against the Orcs.


She is described a as a commander in Eregion here, just like how she was a commander and leader during the entire Flight of the Noldor (The Rebellion - The Kinslaying at Alqualonde - the Crossing of the Helcaraxe - the Battle of the Lammoth). And she is explicitly stated as a warrior/amazon in the Letters of JRR Tolkien.

(On a side note - There is even one version of her in Peoples of Middle-earth where she singlehandedly makes Lorien very powerful without the help of any rings of power.)

(On another side note - Galadriel was called the High Lady of Eriador)

In the Fall of Eregion it is her and Celeborn who lead an army of Eregion:

quote:

Galadariel and Celeborn .... take part in the settlement of Eregion, and later of its defence against Sauron.


Now there is this early version where Celeborn alone led thaat host of Eregion while Galadriel remained behind in Lorien and did not return to Eregion to fight: "The scouts and vanguard of Sauron's host were already approaching when Celeborn made a sortie and drove them back...." But in the later versions we see Galadriel is right there with Celeborn and she had never been into Lorien before the destruction of Eregion:

quote:

... Galadriel and Celeborn, and their followers, who after the destruction of Eregion passed through Moria ....


And

quote:

..after the fall of Eregion... They [Galadriel and Celeborn] had passed through Moria with a considerable following of Noldorin Exiles and dwelt for many years in Lorien.


And

quote:

...Galadriel and Celeborn only retreated thither [to Lorien] after the downfall of Eregion.


There's even one version in Nature of Middle-earth which states Galadriel and Celeborn never went to Lorien until The Third Age, though this idea was immediately abandoned.

There's also this version in which Galadriel was not only in war in Eregion, but also in Lindon and perhaps others:

quote:

...Noldor (of Sindarin speech), who passed through Moria after the destruction of Eregion by Sauron in the year 1697 of the Second Age... Celeborn went at first to Lórien... When however Sauron withdrew to Mordor... Celeborn rejoined Galadriel in Lindon.


Christopher Tolkien's commentary on this: "The implication of the extract just given is that after Eregion's fall Celeborn led this migration to Lórien, while Galadriel joined Gil-galad in Lindon"

Perhaps Cirdan and Galadriel were the secondary commanders of Lindon in this war, though this is not stated, but I doubt if Gil-Galad did every commander thing on his own without any help.

Now as for the latter half of the Second Age, JRR never ever specified where were Galadriel and Celeborn, but Christopher makes a guess here:

quote:

In a note in unpublished material the Elves of Harlindon, or Lindon south of the Lune, are said to have been largely of Sindarin origin, and the region to have been a fief under the rule of Cele­born. It is natural to associate with this the statement in Appendix B; but the reference may possibly be to a later period, for the movements and dwelling-places of Celeborn and Galadriel after the fall of Eregion in 1697 are extremely obscure.






And if you are basing the changes in the timeline, Tolkien was trending toward writing Galadriel more front and center as a commander and involved in battles.

But again, this is an ADAPTATION, not a word for word recreation(which wouldn't even be possible with what was given to Amazon and the gaps in the story). Robin was a circus performer, in Nolan's version he's a cop, does that somehow invalidate the Nolan adaptions from being Batman? Story's and myths are constantly updated and retold in various ways. such is literally the history of human storytelling. You all are trying to treat Tolkien like his words are the infallible word of god and that everything he wrote was ironclad, when it's clear he was continually evolving and adjusting things throughout his life and if the Bible is interpreted with new interpretations, there is zero wrong with doing that here.

So again, cry moar bitch
This post was edited on 9/11/22 at 11:11 am
Posted by CP3LSU25
Louisiana
Member since Feb 2009
52570 posts
Posted on 9/11/22 at 12:07 pm to
quote:

This is literally the earliest I’ve seen you awake in three weeks CP3


This dumbass thinks when you wake up you hurry and post on tigerdroppings. Do you still live with your mom ?
Posted by TideWarrior
Asheville/Chapel Hill NC
Member since Sep 2009
13209 posts
Posted on 9/11/22 at 12:50 pm to
quote:

Before the series even aired it was established the timeline was to be condensed in order to tell a cohesive story across 5 seasons. And this was approved by the Tolkien Estate.


they also state they were telling a different story outside of the LOTR but currently they are directly creating the same story with a different timeline when Amazon was only going to use info for the SA.

quote:

Christopher


I could care less in regards to what he has to say as Amazon only bought the rights to things JRR Tolkien himself wrote.

quote:

And I guess if lore purity rises above all else, I understand people that can’t get past that.




I want a great story and was hoping Amazon would do their best to create a story introducing us to the SA and the events that took place in the SA outside of what we knew. Not ripping off established figures that did not exist for another 1200+ years or completely different age who their story contributed to the Hobbit & LOTR.

I am not a true purist by any means and really would have enjoyed a true story of events in the SA but Amazon sees this as another cash grab and nothing more.
Posted by SammyTiger
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Feb 2009
79455 posts
Posted on 9/11/22 at 1:44 pm to
quote:

I am not a true purist by any means and really would have enjoyed a true story of events in the SA but Amazon sees this as another cash grab and nothing more.


They are trying to tell the story of the creation of the Rings of Power and the aftermath. Yes they are condensing the timeline, but I don’t understand why that makes it a cash grab.

Posted by Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
12646 posts
Posted on 9/11/22 at 2:10 pm to
quote:

This dumbass thinks when you wake up you hurry and post on tigerdroppings.



No, but when three weeks go by and the same pattern occurs: you start posting at noon, don’t fricking stop til 1am. All day, every day. The pattern becomes pretty clear. If you are actually getting up at 7am and posting til 1am every day about black hobbits, you’re more of a fricking psycho than I thought


quote:

Do you still live with your mom


We already talked about you projecting onto others, it’s a bad look for you.

Posted by TideWarrior
Asheville/Chapel Hill NC
Member since Sep 2009
13209 posts
Posted on 9/11/22 at 2:24 pm to
quote:

They are trying to tell the story of the creation of the Rings of Power and the aftermath. Yes they are condensing the timeline, but I don’t understand why that makes it a cash grab.


There is no need to condense the timeline to do so. Islidur, Gandalf and whoever they are introducing at inaccurate points in time have nothing to do with the creation of the rings.

Everything you are referring to took place within a few hundred years. A few hundred years could be easily done within 5 years.

It is a cash grab because they are including names of characters that have already have a well established place in the lore to bring in viewers and if it was only about the creation of the rings why include famous names/people that never had anything to do with their creation?
Posted by Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
12646 posts
Posted on 9/11/22 at 2:43 pm to
Criticize what you want, but to call Amazon spending 2/3rds of a billion dollars on a streaming only show as a “cash grab” is out and out absurd lol

If Amazon were doing a cash grab. This would have been shot on a comparatively shoestring budget, released to theaters, sold first at a premium, and introduced some new sort of advertising monetization into the show once it hit streaming.

Hate it or like it, this show is absolutely unprecedented in how much money is being thrown behind what is a fairly low ceiling ROI. All because the billionaire owner wants to see this.
Posted by TideWarrior
Asheville/Chapel Hill NC
Member since Sep 2009
13209 posts
Posted on 9/11/22 at 2:59 pm to
quote:

Criticize what you want, but to call Amazon spending 2/3rds of a billion dollars on a streaming only show as a “cash grab” is out and out absurd l


Absurd you do not understand business because they are not banking on the series that most are watching are already subscribing to to generate profits in return. You seem to be clueless how this ties into Amazon as the series is only one part.

quote:

That's because "The Rings of Power" — which Amazon spent nearly $500 million to produce and is a Jeff Bezos passion project — isn't just a TV show for the company. It's another way for it to dominate every aspect of our lives.


quote:

As part of the larger Amazon ecosystem, Prime Video isn't just a typical streaming service. It's part of a grand cross-promotional effort with other Amazon products.


quote:

Amazon obviously wants Prime Video to be a top streaming contender. But for tech giants like Amazon and Apple making a splash in the streaming space, they're not spending top dollar just to rack up more subscriptions (though that's an added bonus). It's about creating a pipeline from streaming, to retail, to other services.


I know you think $750 million is a lot of money but to Amazon worth 1.3 trillion that is a drop in the bucket. So please if you respond have a clue than rattling off some numbers that have little value.
This post was edited on 9/11/22 at 3:06 pm
Posted by TideWarrior
Asheville/Chapel Hill NC
Member since Sep 2009
13209 posts
Posted on 9/11/22 at 3:05 pm to
quote:

The show's page on Prime Video directs audiences to more of what Amazon has to offer — from the show's soundtrack on Amazon Music, to reading the "Lord of the Rings" books on Kindle or listening to them through Audible. The first audiobook, "Fellowship of the Ring," is free on Alexa through Oct. 13. And the "Lord of the Rings" and "Hobbit" movie trilogies are both available on Prime Video with a subscription. But wait, there's more: after watching episodes, fans can get "Lord of the Rings" inspired food recipes from Alexa and then try them out through Amazon's grocery retail service, Amazon Fresh.


This what Amazon is banking on to get a nice ROI. They had less than 2 million viewers in the US and that dropped by 25% for episode 2 that came on right after that, which included 99% of them were already prime subscribers.
Posted by Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
12646 posts
Posted on 9/11/22 at 3:11 pm to
quote:

Absurd you do not understand business because they are not banking on the series that most are watching are already subscribing to to generate profits in return. You seem to be clueless how this ties into Amazon as the series is only one part.


You haven’t explained how anything is a cash grab.

Them trying to naturally monetize within the confines they have isn’t that. A cash grab implies blatant attempts to maximize a ROI and profit margins above all else. At no point can you make the argument that trying to sell some Tolkien books on their site is that lol

You are just being a bitter cause you don’t like the show condensing the timeline, and making dumber and dumber points in service of justifying your hate
This post was edited on 9/11/22 at 3:18 pm
Posted by Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
12646 posts
Posted on 9/11/22 at 3:14 pm to
quote:

This what Amazon is banking on to get a nice ROI. They had less than 2 million viewers in the US and that dropped by 25% for episode 2 that came on right after that, which included 99% of them were already prime subscribers.


They PAY for the rights to those films. To give away a book for free they PAY the publisher a sum of money.

They are literally SPENDING additional money to bring people to the show they already spent 750 million on.

If you think all that spending is expected to be made up in recipes from Whole Foods you’re a fool

Again if this was a cash grab, and only a cash grab there would not be this amount of money on marketing and production would not be happening. At least not without much different streams of revenue being introduced or used to bring in major money.

No one is claiming they don’t want some return, or ideally to justify the investment was worth it, but the idea this is just some cynical cash grab is silly.
This post was edited on 9/11/22 at 3:19 pm
Posted by TideWarrior
Asheville/Chapel Hill NC
Member since Sep 2009
13209 posts
Posted on 9/11/22 at 3:27 pm to
quote:

You are just being a bitter cause you don’t like the show condensing the timeline, and making dumber and dumber points in service of justifying your hate


My reference to a cash grab was not to be taken literal but is about their tapping into characters, who do not exist in the current timeline just to draw viewers. You would hope that the amount of money they are investing in the series they could create something original and not make a knockoff. Just saying
Posted by TideWarrior
Asheville/Chapel Hill NC
Member since Sep 2009
13209 posts
Posted on 9/11/22 at 3:29 pm to
quote:

They are literally SPENDING additional money to bring people to the show they already spent 750 million on.


They haven't yet because bringing in viewers would imply subscriptions and according to the reports out there that has not happen as 99% of the viewers currently watching the show are basically doing it for free are subscribers already.

So before you call someone a fool explain to me the ROI on free subscriptions.
Posted by Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
12646 posts
Posted on 9/11/22 at 3:37 pm to
Abandoning the argument already I see lol

A reminder, you are the one claiming this is just a cynical cash grab, now you are basically making my argument for me

Anyways, this whole side argument is stupid and not even entertaining, you can get back to whining about the show.
This post was edited on 9/11/22 at 3:42 pm
Posted by TideWarrior
Asheville/Chapel Hill NC
Member since Sep 2009
13209 posts
Posted on 9/11/22 at 3:41 pm to
Bronc I notice a pattern with you that with you that when others disagree with you you become very defensive and like to attack with name calling. Not sure why that is but that seems to be of a person that is bitter because no one wants to agree with them.

See I am not bitter. I was not expecting anything from the show going in to be near the level of what Tolkien wrote or the original lore or even close to the LOTR movies. But I had hope with the money they were spending that would at least create something a little more than what has been released.

Se you can throw numbers out there all you want but lets look at the real numbers that count in the end. Why are almost 90% of Amazon's 200,000,000 subscribers yet to view any of the 3 episodes? Why is the viewership numbers still declining weekly? Why are the reviews after Amazon turns them back still with 24% sitting at 1 star and overall poor ratings.

See the bitterness seems to be with you because something you seem so hell bent of wanting to be good is not.
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