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re: The Knight of The Laughing Tree - Massive Song of Ice and Fire Spoilers!!!!!
Posted on 3/7/12 at 1:59 pm to Siderophore
Posted on 3/7/12 at 1:59 pm to Siderophore
quote:
Reed
Not even a debate IMO
this is just a dumb statement.
1
Posted on 3/7/12 at 5:14 pm to CE Tiger
Why?
What is the argument for Lyanna? Just that she can ride a horse?
Against no one noticing her absence during the mystery knight tourney and no one noticing anything about her voice when she yells? The fact the she would throw away the armor with little reason? Against the assumption that just because she can ride a horse, that doesn't say anything about her ability to do so armored, and having to use muscule to counterbalance the weight of the lance...
What is the argument for Lyanna? Just that she can ride a horse?
Against no one noticing her absence during the mystery knight tourney and no one noticing anything about her voice when she yells? The fact the she would throw away the armor with little reason? Against the assumption that just because she can ride a horse, that doesn't say anything about her ability to do so armored, and having to use muscule to counterbalance the weight of the lance...
Posted on 3/7/12 at 5:26 pm to Siderophore
theres alot more evidence that it is Lyanna over it beeing Reed.
Reed gets his arse handed to him by 3 squires but then can defeat 3 knights because of some magical power... he had an opportunity to ride under his house but declined in order to not embarass the family name. The way Meera tells the story shows that its not Reed. Bran thinks he has it figured out and Meera just continues on talking with the maybe, maybe not attitude. Its mention several times that jousting is mainly about horsemanship over joust skill. Ser Loras proved this when he took down the mountain in the joust. Lyanna is described as being halfhorse with how good she rides and she already handled some squires with a sword she isnt incompentent. If its not Lyanna why does Rhaegar crown her? Rhaegar finds out the identity and falls in love beginning the rebellion and all that follows.
Like I said this is obvious a Stark tale.
Wild wolf, Brandon
quiet wolf, Ned
She wolf, Lyanna
Young Pup, Benjen
And why else would Reed go after Lyanna with Ned when he wasnt part of the rebellion.
the armor was ill fitting so she probably just scraped up what she could. Rhaegar caught her and claimed all he could find was the shield
they talk about the "bellowing voice" Reed wouldnt really need to hide his voice, no one knew who the hell he was.
Reed gets his arse handed to him by 3 squires but then can defeat 3 knights because of some magical power... he had an opportunity to ride under his house but declined in order to not embarass the family name. The way Meera tells the story shows that its not Reed. Bran thinks he has it figured out and Meera just continues on talking with the maybe, maybe not attitude. Its mention several times that jousting is mainly about horsemanship over joust skill. Ser Loras proved this when he took down the mountain in the joust. Lyanna is described as being halfhorse with how good she rides and she already handled some squires with a sword she isnt incompentent. If its not Lyanna why does Rhaegar crown her? Rhaegar finds out the identity and falls in love beginning the rebellion and all that follows.
Like I said this is obvious a Stark tale.
Wild wolf, Brandon
quiet wolf, Ned
She wolf, Lyanna
Young Pup, Benjen
And why else would Reed go after Lyanna with Ned when he wasnt part of the rebellion.
quote:
she would throw away the armor with little reason
the armor was ill fitting so she probably just scraped up what she could. Rhaegar caught her and claimed all he could find was the shield
quote:
no one noticing anything about her voice when she yells?
they talk about the "bellowing voice" Reed wouldnt really need to hide his voice, no one knew who the hell he was.
This post was edited on 3/7/12 at 5:29 pm
Posted on 3/7/12 at 5:32 pm to CE Tiger
quote:
CE Tiger
Hmmmmmm......
maybe so.
Posted on 3/7/12 at 5:35 pm to CE Tiger
quote:
And why else would Reed go after Lyanna with Ned when he wasnt part of the rebellion.
While I think it's possible Lyanna could have been the laughing tree knight, Howland would have plenty of reason to be with Ned. The Reed family are Stark bannerman, they would have come when the rebellion was fought unless they decided to side with the Targs.
Posted on 3/7/12 at 5:48 pm to CE Tiger
quote:
And why else would Reed go after Lyanna with Ned when he wasnt part of the rebellion.
Ummm....he was balls deep in the rebellion.
The same reason why the other five were there....they were Stark bannermen, bound to Ned as the Lord of Winterfell.
Granted, affection for Lyanna for stopping them from kicking would be an added incentive....but that doesn't mean that she was in the armor.
quote:
Reed gets his arse handed to him by 3 squires but then can defeat 3 knights because of some magical power...
Fighting is not jousting. For one...he isn't outnumbered in a joust.
quote:
he had an opportunity to ride under his house but declined in order to not embarass the family name.
We don't know if he declined.
He was just hesitent to accept.
If it stated he declined....then there wouldn't be a debate.
quote:.
they talk about the "bellowing voice" Reed wouldnt really need to hide his voice, no one knew who the hell he was
Right.
Thats my point.
Its rather hard for a female to "bellow" without it being obvious that at least it is a female.
Throw in the obvious disapparence of Lyanna (a member of one of the seven great Houses) and it wouldn't be that hard to put two and two together when the King asked....
quote:
The way Meera tells the story shows that its not Reed. Bran thinks he has it figured out and Meera just continues on talking with the maybe, maybe not attitude.
Ambiguity isn't proof of anything, by definition.
quote:
Ser Loras proved this when he took down the mountain in the joust.
You mean when he basically cheated?
That's your evidence of horsemanship being proof positive?
While it may be true, like I said before....being a great horse rider with reg clothes doesn't just default to being a great horse rider wearing armor and holding a 20+ foot lance at one side, offbalancing you.
But we know Reed has some connection with the Green Men....who is to say he isn't trained as a seer? That he is playing behind the scenes (which is part of why he hasn't bestirred from the Neck)? And as extension, he was able to channel someone who WAS a great jouster.
quote:
Lyanna is described as being halfhorse with how good she rides and she already handled some squires with a sword she isnt incompentent
Flailing a sword on foot doesn't imply the sightest about ability to joust.
quote:
If its not Lyanna why does Rhaegar crown her? Rhaegar finds out the identity and falls in love beginning the rebellion and all that follows.
This is pure supposition at multiple levels
Who said Rhaegar even loved her? It is clear that he knows all about the upcoming War of the Dawn, and has devoted his life to preparing for it.
And we have seen him holding newborn Aegon, wondering who will be the third head of the dragon....
The Lyanna kidnapping may have been means to an end to produce something needed in the prophecy.
Posted on 3/7/12 at 5:55 pm to Siderophore
So nostalgic reading these same ASOIAF theories and arguments dating back to the book's release. If you check out the Westeros forum this theory and many more have pages of facts and debate on them.
Posted on 3/7/12 at 6:02 pm to Siderophore
so we just went a full page of this thread, both offering valid points yet you claim
im not saying there is no way its Reed but there are definately arguments on both side and it is very fitting with the L+R=J theory.
quote:
Not even a debate IMO
quote:
We don't know if he declined
quote:
"Then, as now," she agreed. "The wolf maid saw them too, and pointed them out to her brothers. 'I could find you a horse, and some armor that might fit,' the pup offered. The little crannogman thanked him, but gave no answer. His heart was torn. Crannogmen are smaller than must, but just as proud. The lad was no knight, no more than any of his people. We sit a boat more offtent then a horse, and our hands are made for oars, not lances. Much as he wished to have his vengeance, he freared he would only make a fool of himself and shame his people.
im not saying there is no way its Reed but there are definately arguments on both side and it is very fitting with the L+R=J theory.
Posted on 3/7/12 at 6:25 pm to CE Tiger
Lyanna's horsemanship has been mentioned in multiple books. I believe every single book has a different character making an observation about how jousting is mostly horsemanship. We don't know for certain, but the repetition makes me think it was Lyanna.
There's also Ned's comment to Arya about the "wolf's blood". Something along the lines of "Lyanna had a touch of it, Brandon more than a touch, and it led them both to early graves". The series skipped over most of that conversation when Ned walks in on Arya wih Needle. It skipped over the "Tower of Joy" dream as well. I don't see how someone who hasn't read the books and has managed to avoid spoilers will ever figure out R+L=J.
Also, my understanding is that Meera and Jojen won't be in S2?
There's also Ned's comment to Arya about the "wolf's blood". Something along the lines of "Lyanna had a touch of it, Brandon more than a touch, and it led them both to early graves". The series skipped over most of that conversation when Ned walks in on Arya wih Needle. It skipped over the "Tower of Joy" dream as well. I don't see how someone who hasn't read the books and has managed to avoid spoilers will ever figure out R+L=J.
Also, my understanding is that Meera and Jojen won't be in S2?
Posted on 3/7/12 at 7:06 pm to CE Tiger
If you call bringing up no evidence and getting non sequiturs shot down a debate....
Posted on 3/7/12 at 7:17 pm to CE Tiger
quote:
We don't know if he declined
quote:
The little crannogman thanked him, but gave no answer.
Not sure why you would quote something that agreed with me.
Posted on 3/7/12 at 7:55 pm to shinerfan
I immediately thought R + L = JS while watching season 1. After reading the books, now convinced.
Posted on 3/7/12 at 11:43 pm to John McClane
How?
I don't remember anything in season 1 that even hinted to it
I don't remember anything in season 1 that even hinted to it
Posted on 3/7/12 at 11:58 pm to CottonWasKing
I think it was Lyanna. And then Rhaegar caught her in the woods and thats when they started bumping uglies.
And not only was she known as an incredible rider, she was also known as being to wild and fierce for her own good. When they describe Arya (and we all know where she is now) they say she is just like Lyanna. So clearly she can ride and knows her way around weapons.
And not only was she known as an incredible rider, she was also known as being to wild and fierce for her own good. When they describe Arya (and we all know where she is now) they say she is just like Lyanna. So clearly she can ride and knows her way around weapons.
Posted on 3/7/12 at 11:59 pm to John McClane
quote:
I immediately thought R + L = JS while watching season 1. After reading the books, now convinced.
considering most of the hints that were in the book (which most didn't notice at first) were not in the show, I don't see how.
Posted on 3/8/12 at 8:58 am to WavinWilly
Maybe GRRM is holding that one close to the vest Witt the writers
Or they felt that it would be too obvious if they aired hints in such a compressed format.
It isn't like hints of other future events didn't end up on the urging room floor.
I guess my point is that you are opening up a huge can of worms looking to a semi canon source like the series as evidence one way or another.
Or they felt that it would be too obvious if they aired hints in such a compressed format.
It isn't like hints of other future events didn't end up on the urging room floor.
I guess my point is that you are opening up a huge can of worms looking to a semi canon source like the series as evidence one way or another.
Posted on 3/8/12 at 9:12 am to WavinWilly
quote:
which most didn't notice at first
Yeah, I had no clue after the first read. I was pretty naive on the first run through getting bored with the dreams. It wasn't until I was a bit of the way through COK that I realized how important they were.
Posted on 3/8/12 at 9:19 am to DestrehanTiger
quote:
Yeah, I had no clue after the first read. I was pretty naive on the first run through getting bored with the dreams.
Exact same. I actually think it was Cotton that nudged me in the direction of paying attention to the dreams.
Posted on 3/8/12 at 9:19 am to Siderophore
quote:
If you call bringing up no evidence and getting non sequiturs shot down a debate....
We're ready to hear your evidence for Reed.
Posted on 3/8/12 at 9:20 am to John McClane
quote:
R + L = JS
What does this mean? I have read all the books and seen the first season.
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