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re: The Case Against Adnan Syed - HBO-
Posted on 3/20/19 at 9:40 am to Tiger Voodoo
Posted on 3/20/19 at 9:40 am to Tiger Voodoo
quote:
First off, who are the “3 alibis”? Other than Asia, who else is there?
And like I said, even if her story is true, it doesn’t change anything. She claims she left Adnan at the public library at 240. Adnan calls Jay at 340. There is still an hour where he is unaccounted for where the murder could have taken place.
If Asia was truly approached by her boyfriend and friend that day, and he was jealous over her talking to Adnan, I find it highly likely that he'd at least be able to recognize Adnan's face just weeks later.
quote:
This idea put forth by Serial and HBO that the murder HAD TO have occurred at 230 so her testimony would have proven he couldn’t have done it is CSI bullshite.
No coroner can pinpoint a time of death to the exact minute, so hammering the 230 time of death into their viewers/listeners heads is absolutely disingenuous and makes me question every other piece of information they put out there.
If you've actually read the case logs, I'll defer to you on this point, but Serial makes it sound like the prosecution was the one using this timeframe to prove Adnan committed the murder.
quote:
Unlike Adnan, Jay actually does have an alibi, as he was smoking weed with Jen until Adnan called him to be picked up, which Adnan himself confirms.
Also, you're trying to have your cake and eat it too a little here it feels. You don't want to use the 2:40 PM time of death for Adnan, but want to give Jay a 2:40 PM alibi.
I don't know. I just don't find Jay trustworthy as a witness at all. For him to be the state's crucial piece of evidence in a trial seems really fricking shady. I also don't agree with the police seemingly trying harder to build a case against Adnan than trying to find out what really happened. They really let some stuff skate by in those interviews with Jay that's pretty baffling. I do understand it though. If you are 95% positive you have your guy, and you have one shot to put him in prison, I'd get why they'd take the shot.
I'd probably put myself in the 85-90% range that Adnan did kill Hae, which would certainly be "reasonable doubt" in my mind. I couldn't put away someone for life being that uncertain. I honestly don't fault the jury either. That defense attorney was grating to listen to for 5 minutes on a podcast. Weeks of that? My god. You're basically looking through the lens of pure and utter aggravation against the defense while trying to make this important decision. That's not the frame of mind you want a jury to go into deliberation with. They're still human.
And here's REALLY the kicker to this whole situation to me.
1) If Serial can paint a picture to the public that goes beyond reasonable doubt and accidentally convinces the public to stir up a shitstorm around the case, then holy frick how could one of the alleged best defense attorneys in the area not at bare minimum convince the jury of "reasonable doubt"?
2) Adnan lost his third appeal, but he still won two of them before this last one. Clearly, the public is not the only piece in this equation that has serious doubts about how this all went down and the adequacy of his representation.
1
Posted on 3/20/19 at 10:01 am to The Spleen
quote:
just listened to the entire season of Serial again, and this was addressed. It wasn't just a map of Leakin Park. There was a map of the entire area around the school on the other side, and given that, she didn't seem to think it was that serious since it was widely known Adnan was regularly in her car and his fingerprints were all over it.
Ok thanks for that info.
I can certainly see why these productions would want to paint this as “not that serious”, but the high court felt it was worth mentioning as key evidence in their opinion, so I’d assume the jurors could have also found it at least somewhat persuasive.
Again, without the full record, we don’t know if that was the only thing found in the car, or at least there wasn’t a bunch of old stuff lying around. If they were broken up for weeks, maybe it was compelling that it was found there. Or maybe she had junk from weeks or months before scattered around the car as well, in which case it may be less relevant.
We just don’t know other than the one side we are given.
quote:
The one thing that never squared with me was Adnan leaving his cell phone with Jay all day. Not many people had cell phones in 1999, and I just can't imagine someone leaving their brand new cell phone with someone all day they claimed to not be very close to. I don't think this was explored closely enough.
But Adnan himself says he did that. His car as well.
While I agree it doesn’t sound like normal behavior, I’m not sure what else would need exploring there. At that point, cell phones may not have even been allowed at school, so maybe the phone just went with the car.
It could also be fairly damning. Adnan may only do that if he knew he needed to be able to get in touch with Jay quickly so leaving his phone with him was the surest way.
I don’t recall, but do they discuss what number he called his phone from at 340? Was that the Best Buy pay phone issue?
Posted on 3/20/19 at 10:20 am to ShamelessPel
quote:
If Asia was truly approached by her boyfriend and friend that day, and he was jealous over her talking to Adnan, I find it highly likely that he'd at least be able to recognize Adnan's face just weeks later.
Yeah I don’t disagree. It kind of makes you wonder why Asia, who I find unconvincing after reading her strange stream of consciousness letters, wouldn’t have given his info and other corroborating witnesses to the attorney or Adnan as well.
quote:
If you've actually read the case logs, I'll defer to you on this point, but Serial makes it sound like the prosecution was the one using this timeframe to prove Adnan committed the murder.
I haven’t.
But I can’t think of any reason a State would try to give an exact time of death. They can only establish a window, and it isn’t even that exact either. No coroner can estimate a time of death to a precise minute. The science isn’t that exact.
I can see why the producers would try to pigeon hole their position though.
quote:
You don't want to use the 2:40 PM time of death for Adnan, but want to give Jay a 2:40 PM alibi.
No, there Jen’s testimony that she was with Jay until 340 when Adnan called him to be picked up, which is corroborated by cell phone evidence.
Accepting that as part of an established timeline isn’t the same as accepting some theory that Hae had to have been killed exactly at 230, so Asia being with Adnan until 240 proved he couldn’t have done it.
That isn’t the way time of death estimates work.
quote:
don't know. I just don't find Jay trustworthy as a witness at all. For him to be the state's crucial piece of evidence in a trial seems really fricking shady.
Jay leading the police to the car is the key piece of evidence imo.
Unless you believe the vast police conspiracy theory, that automatically gives his testimony and knowledge of the crime some level of credibility.
The other pieces like Jen and her friend’s testimony and the cell phone records then provide the rest of the foundation to convict.
quote:
1) If Serial can paint a picture to the public that goes beyond reasonable doubt and accidentally convinces the public to stir up a shitstorm around the case, then holy frick how could one of the alleged best defense attorneys in the area not at bare minimum convince the jury of "reasonable doubt"?
Serial is not bound by the rules of evidence.
That’s kind of the big problem I have with this whole phenomenon. This investigation and presentation, while interesting (and entertaining, which is actually all the producers are concerned with), is not how the criminal justice system works.
quote:
2) Adnan lost his third appeal, but he still won two of them before this last one. Clearly, the public is not the only piece in this equation that has serious doubts about how this all went down and the adequacy of his representation.
I don’t necessarily disagree.
But these appeals are argued on points of law, not of fact.
This is what attorneys get paid to do. Argue ambiguous points of law like ineffective assistance of counsel which leaves a lot up to interpretation.
Judges dissenting or concurring on those points isn’t always, perhaps even rarely, a direct correlation as to how they view the evidence or the sufficiency of a conviction or the presence of reasonable doubt.
I’d also argue the public pressure associated with the phenomenon of Serial could have impacted the way some judges viewed the appeals, both to Adnan’s benefit and perhaps also to his detriment, which is my other major problem with these types of productions.
Few gain the notoriety that Serial did, but similar to the OJ trial, it’s hard to gauge how that type of outside pressure, which is always the enemy of a fair judicial process, could have impacted the outcome.
This post was edited on 3/20/19 at 10:43 am
Posted on 3/20/19 at 11:01 am to Tiger Voodoo
quote:
I can certainly see why these productions would want to paint this as “not that serious”, but the high court felt it was worth mentioning as key evidence in their opinion
"Not that serious" were my words. As I recall Sarah mentioned it as being damning, but then said something like.."but on the other hand, the other side of that page was a map of the area around their school, so it'd make sense they'd have a map of that area in the car."
quote:
It could also be fairly damning. Adnan may only do that if he knew he needed to be able to get in touch with Jay quickly so leaving his phone with him was the surest way.
That's kind of my thinking, and exploring that could reveal that Adnan pre-meditated the murder and had it planned out. Get in Hae's car, kill her, call Jay to come help dispose of the body. Jay having his cell phone assures Adnan he'd be available at the time he called.
quote:
I don’t recall, but do they discuss what number he called his phone from at 340? Was that the Best Buy pay phone issue?
They don't know where the call originated from. It just shows up his cell phone record as an incoming call. Jay said it was from a pay phone at the Best Buy, but nobody could really confirm there was ever a pay phone even there. They didn't mention if that was even addressed in the trial, or if everyone just took it at face value.
Posted on 3/20/19 at 11:11 am to Tiger Voodoo
quote:
The bottom line is the “timeline” for a case like this is much simpler than what is being presented.
They don’t have to have events pinned down to exact minutes.
Asia supposedly saw Adnan until 240. Jay got the call to pick him up, witnessed by Jen, at 340. Dropped him off at track practice by 4. Got the call from police in the presence of Jay and the other girl around 6.
That's not what was said at trial from what I recall though. In fact, the state directly argues that the 2:36 call was the "come and get me call." What you're saying makes sense, but if the state is arguing the 2:36 call was the call from Adnan to Jay, the murder had to have been committed by then. So, the state may have fricked up, but that one piece of information right there is enough for reasonable doubt in my mind.
I'm 7 episodes into a relisten of Serial, and this time around, I'm leaning more towards the Adnan did it side. It's just not believable that he wouldn't remember what he did the day his girlfriend went missing and the cops called him about it. And it's very strange that he never tried to contact Hae again after that day. His excuse was that he was in a circle of friends that were all trying to contact her, so someone would have told him if they heard from her.
However, none of this, at least to me, is about whether Adnan actually did it. He very well may have. To me, it's about the legal system playing out in a just way, and I don't think it did. Obviously, I don't have all the facts, and no one does that wasn't in that courtroom during the trial. However, I think Adnan's lawyer was incompetent, and I think the state was shady (and may have intentionally committed Brady violations), and the jury obviously either ignored or wasn't properly instructed because at least one of the said afterwards the fact that Adnan didn't testify in his defense worked against him for them. The bigger picture for me in all of this is that our system of justice isn't really designed to find out the truth. DAs are elected and interested in convictions when they should be just as interested in finding out the truth. Police aren't often educated enough about the law to perform their jobs properly.
Posted on 3/20/19 at 11:11 am to The Spleen
My opinion is still that Adnan most likely killed her and everyone's timeline is messed up because they were extremely high and worried about legal repercussions.
I hate saying this but I don't care what anyone says, if my GF/best friend went missing that day and I got a call from the police, I would remember what I was doing during those hours.
I hate saying this but I don't care what anyone says, if my GF/best friend went missing that day and I got a call from the police, I would remember what I was doing during those hours.
Posted on 3/20/19 at 11:37 am to The Spleen
quote:
They don't know where the call originated from. It just shows up his cell phone record as an incoming call. Jay said it was from a pay phone at the Best Buy, but nobody could really confirm there was ever a pay phone even there. They didn't mention if that was even addressed in the trial, or if everyone just took it at face value.
Gotcha. Yeah I vaguely remember that.
I was really caught up when Serial first aired. I enjoyed the podcast format and thought they did a good job presenting it in an appealing way.
I wasn’t really trying to pick it apart, I just liked having a good story to listen to while running.
But I remember going back and listening to parts of it when it really took over and the more I listened to it the more the bias and selective presentation became clear to me personally.
And this HBO doc is pretty shamelessly agenda driven.
The breakdown of Jay’s arrest record and his presentation as loving Eminem and Stan was just cringeworthy.
Reading the interview Jay did after Serial and the way he described how Koenig kind of harassed him in the run up to Serial, which is confirmed by her emails to him, and her total lack of sympathy for what he and his family have been through as a result of this (Rabia totally leaked his address imo), just leaves me feeling more and more disturbed and put off by the whole phenomenon.
This post was edited on 3/20/19 at 5:00 pm
Posted on 3/20/19 at 12:18 pm to Tiger Voodoo
As far as Sarah goes, I think she got convinced by Rabia that Adnan was innocent and set out to see if she could prove his innocence. By the end of the season, you could sense her frustration she wasn't able to do that, and there was even some self-doubt in her tone that she had been duped by Adnan himself. So I agree some of her bias did come out during the season.
I haven't yet watched the HBO doc. I wanted to reacquaint myself to the story first.
I haven't yet watched the HBO doc. I wanted to reacquaint myself to the story first.
Posted on 3/20/19 at 1:51 pm to Tiger Voodoo
quote:
Jay leading the police to the car is the key piece of evidence imo.
I don't get how you're getting from point A to point B in your argument with this. How does Jay knowing where the car is prove anything regarding his story about Adnan's role other than he was involved?
quote:
Reading the interview Jay did after Serial and the way he described how Koenig kind of harassed him in the run up to Serial, which is confirmed by her emails to him, and her total lack of sympathy for what he and his family have been through as a result of this (Rabia totally leaked his address imo), just leaves me feeling more and more disturbed and put off by the whole phenomenon.
Forgive me, but I really am not sympathetic towards someone who at bare minimum helped bury a dead body and destroyed evidence. Those shovels could have absolutely buried Adnan and confirmed Jay's story. Jay's clothes could have potentially buried Adnan and confirmed Jay's story.
Also, I'm not saying your doing this intentionally lumping Rabia's actions in with Koenig's in the same paragraph, but they're two completely different entities.
Bottom line though as I don't think we'll see entirely eye to eye on this: Jay is in no way a sympathetic figure in my eyes, and I think it is equally likely that he played an even larger role in the murder as it is that Adnan played a role in the murder. Couple that with the fact that Jay got no jail time and Adnan is rotting away for the rest of his life...man... that's I'm sure a large chunk of the public's outcry. If the worst thing that happened to him was some reporter harassing him for a story about a murder he was directly involved in, he got the deal of a fricking lifetime. Jay deserved way worse than he got. He could have opted to walk away from this at any moment that day. I do not have any sympathy for someone who can be casual about helping someone bury a dead 17 year old girl.
Posted on 3/20/19 at 1:57 pm to The Spleen
quote:
As far as Sarah goes, I think she got convinced by Rabia that Adnan was innocent and set out to see if she could prove his innocence. By the end of the season, you could sense her frustration she wasn't able to do that, and there was even some self-doubt in her tone that she had been duped by Adnan himself. So I agree some of her bias did come out during the season.
I haven't yet watched the HBO doc. I wanted to reacquaint myself to the story first.
I think the bias is a little overblown. It may bleed through here or there, but someone who took being an actual reporter very seriously is not going to go digging around for very long before finding out that some of this isn't adding up. She does not strike me as the type to be duped for overly long periods of time. Honestly, I look for that ability to be introspective in people. Those are the people I want to hear from. Koenig just came off as one of those people to me, and part of my fascination with the Serial podcast is her putting being an investigative journalist first before everything.
I will say this, you have to remember that she is only being fed first hand information from one side of the story. Jay refused to talk to her, and he had every right to do that. I'd be curious if Jay would take a different approach in hindsight knowing how big the podcast got. Koenig can only do so much with what she's given though.
The perceived bias could simply be Koenig lacking the most important piece to the puzzle.
This post was edited on 3/20/19 at 1:59 pm
Posted on 3/20/19 at 3:32 pm to ShamelessPel
quote:
Jay leading the police to the car is the key piece of evidence imo.
I don't get how you're getting from point A to point B in your argument with this. How does Jay knowing where the car is prove anything regarding his story about Adnan's role other than he was involved?
What is there to understand?
At the very least, Jay is being more honest than Adnan, who to this day claims he had nothing whatsoever to do with the murder and is a victim of some huge conspiracy.
The fact that Jay knew where the car was means only three things are possible:
1. The police conspired to set Adnan up and used Jay to do it by leading him to the car which they had already found then staging an interview where Jay then reveals it to them.
2. Jay killed Hae and hid the car himself, later leading the police to it.
3. The person who killed Hae and took her car, later brought in Jay in to cover up the crime (a twist on this possibility could also be that Jay was there at the time of the killing).
Let’s analyze each possibility:
1. Honestly, this isn’t even worth discussing, as it is not reasonable and wouldn’t place the jury in reasonable doubt if the rest of the evidence was persuasive enough.
It is an outlandish conspiracy theory with zero evidence or even clues pointing to such a scheme and simply designed to draw in an audience.
Why Jay would continue to participate in such a scheme to this day despite all of the pressure and ridicule he has received when he could be the hero to ride in and save the day is nonsensical.
2. Some apparently believe that Jay is the actual murderer. He appeared to have no relationship of any kind with Hae, had virtually no possible motive to carry out such an up close and personal act of violence or even the means to know where to find her, and appears to have never been alone with Hae at any point in their lives.
This theory is only slightly less absurd than #1 and still not enough to create reasonable doubt.
3. This is where all evidence and common sense points us.
By Adnan’s own statements he lent Jay his vehicle and phone and was with Jay throughout the day and night when Hae went missing.
Two independent witnesses confirm they were together, and cell phone evidence links Adnan’s phone to locations in the city near where Hae’s body was found.
Adnan refuses or is unable to provide any information that could exonerate himself or explain why his phone should not be used to indicate his own location that night, had clear motive, means, and, based on the timeline that Jay and Jen gave, as well as the defense’s own account regarding the time of track practice, the opportunity to commit the crime of which he was accused.
The so called alibi offered by Asia, even if believed, does not prevent him from having the time to have done it between 240 when she last saw him at the library and when he apparently went to track practice at 4 o clock (which also conincides with Jay and Jens account that he called for a ride at 340, confirmed by cell records).
Another note on the Asia story that I haven’t seen discussed yet:
Her account that Adnan spoke to her, not a close acquaintance, at length about Hae and ultimately that he “just wanted her to be happy” shows that he was absolutely consumed by Hae within hours of her disappearance and murder, despite the fact they appeared to have been broken up for weeks at that point. This seems to corroborate Jay’s claim that Adnan talked to him that morning and made heated claims about possibly hurting her, claims Jay shrugged off as just talk.
How anyone can refuse to recognize all of the signs pointing to Adnan confronting Hae that afternoon is beyond me, and beyond reasonable imo.
The question as to whether Jay was there for the act itself can be debated, I suppose. But that means Jen has continued this lie for 20 years as well, and is honestly mostly irrelevant.
Jay signed a plea agreement to plea guilty as an accomplice, an agreement that called for him to serve two years in DOC.
For whatever reason that apparently did not go through, but the fact is he provided his account and Adnan continues to deny any involvement whatsoever, which is wholly contradicted by all evidence.
quote:
Forgive me, but I really am not sympathetic towards someone who at bare minimum helped bury a dead body and destroyed evidence. Those shovels could have absolutely buried Adnan and confirmed Jay's story. Jay's clothes could have potentially buried Adnan and confirmed Jay's story.
The term sympathetic was probably misused, but I was trying to point out Koenig’s aggressive style that she herself acknowledges caused Jay’s wife and children undue stress and dragged them into a decades old story in which they were wholly uninvolved.
Koenig is a reporter, but she was also a producer whose goal was to put together a compelling story that would bring in a large audience, and a story that says twenty years later an ex boyfriend probably killed his girlfriend and the system got it right just honestly wouldn’t be all that interesting.
The entire podcast was constructed to place doubt in the mind of the viewer that Adnan did it, no matter how many moments of supposed impartiality she interjected to give herself credibility only when no reasonably person could react any other way.
quote:
Also, I'm not saying your doing this intentionally lumping Rabia's actions in with Koenig's in the same paragraph, but they're two completely different entities.
I am well aware of that fact. I also understand how closely these two worked together and how similar their goals and motivations are.
quote:
Bottom line though as I don't think we'll see entirely eye to eye on this
Agreed.
quote:
Couple that with the fact that Jay got no jail time and Adnan is rotting away for the rest of his life...man... that's I'm sure a large chunk of the public's outcry.
No, it really isn’t.
The outcry is over a potentially innocent kid who was put away and the insinuation that the police and judicial system conspired to carry out this heinous act to “clear a case”.
The production was always to illicit those feelings and reactions and it was extremely effective at doing so.
This post was edited on 3/20/19 at 4:11 pm
Posted on 3/20/19 at 3:38 pm to ShamelessPel
quote:
think the bias is a little overblown.
As I said in my previous post the bias isn’t necessarily the same as Rabia, who clearly just can’t see anything in the case objectively, but in her desire and need to tell a compelling story.
A story that says the system worked doesn’t become nearly the sensation that Serial did, and the production of the podcast clearly reflected that ultimate ending that they were trying to create.
Posted on 3/20/19 at 3:40 pm to Tiger Voodoo
I still can't believe BPD didn't test the trunk of her Sentra.
Posted on 3/20/19 at 4:01 pm to medtiger
quote:
That's not what was said at trial from what I recall though. In fact, the state directly argues that the 2:36 call was the "come and get me call."
I don’t remember the podcast well enough to comment, but the HBO doc has said it was 340 and Adnan said as much. It was right before track practice.
quote:
just not believable that he wouldn't remember what he did the day his girlfriend went missing and the cops called him about it. And it's very strange that he never tried to contact Hae again after that day.
Agreed.
quote:
However, none of this, at least to me, is about whether Adnan actually did it. He very well may have. To me, it's about the legal system playing out in a just way, and I don't think it did.
I agree with the sentiment, even though I disagree with your conclusion.
I feel like the result is being skewed by a very well put together and wholly one sided production with an agenda to paint Adnan as an innocent victim.
quote:
However, I think Adnan's lawyer was incompetent, and I think the state was shady (and may have intentionally committed Brady violations),
Won’t argue any of this, although I’m not sure we were given adequate information to consider Brady violations and without the full record I’d view the info we were given with skepticism.
Was the ineffective assistance of counsel prejudicial? The high court of Maryland says no.
quote:
the jury obviously either ignored or wasn't properly instructed because at least one of the said afterwards the fact that Adnan didn't testify in his defense worked against him for them
I’ve addressed this, but this isn’t uncommon and could be a loaded question by the production.
The juror could have meant she wanted answers and him not testifying left her with no other info than the State provided. Without hearing the full account, we can’t just assume she meant well he didn’t testify so he must be guilty because an innocent person would state their innocence.
It’s all in the delivery by the production.
And as for jurors in general, as a great legal mind often said, “A jury is twelve people too dumb to get out of jury duty”.
They certainly don’t always properly understand jury instructions or the laws or burdens that they must apply, but that is an inherent flaw in any system that depends on imperfect humans to carry it out.
quote:
The bigger picture for me in all of this is that our system of justice isn't really designed to find out the truth. DAs are elected and interested in convictions when they should be just as interested in finding out the truth. Police aren't often educated enough about the law to perform their jobs properly.
I disagree in part. I find the overriding interest in convictions to be an overblown talking point, at least in state courts, while that may certainly have some merit in the federal system.
But I do agree police need better training, as do judges, attorneys, and perspective jurors.
We must all continue our education if the system, which is perhaps the best and fairest to defendants in world history, is to continue working as it was best intended
Posted on 3/20/19 at 4:07 pm to Tiger Voodoo
I don't know if he did it or not. But not everything you stated is absolute truth. There are also a lot of rumors (that "help" Adnan's case) that could be bullshite, too.
One of the rumors is that Jay was cheating on Stephanie. Hae didn't like it since Stephanie was a friend of hers and was thinking about telling her about the cheating. Jay's motive could be anger or a desire to shut her up. I also acknowledge it's just a rumor.
Don't know his plea deal, but could changing the story violate his deal? Not sure after 20 years if this is a factor or not.
Looking forward to next week's episode to break this down. I've heard everything from the cell phone data was completely unreliable to it was just not exactly 100%.
I also see a lot of comments about Jay's story changes are probably because he was high as shite. Wouldn't that hold for Adnan, too? If it was an unremarkable day that he got loaded I wouldn't expect his memory to be great 6 weeks later and especially two decades later. Hae's disappearance wasn't a really big deal that day. Many thought she just with her new boyfriend. No reason for an innocent kid to catalog his memory on that.
The easiest answer that makes the most sense is a girl was killed by her ex-boyfriend. In most cases this would be the truth and is highly probable to be true here. But there are some big issues.
It looks to me like the police had their suspect and ignored anything that didn't fit their narrative. Does that mean they were ultimately wrong? Nope. But it would have been nice to see them chase down other leads. This is the kind of thing that would scare me if ever arrested. "If you're innocent you have nothing to be scared of" is a bullshite line when dealing with cops who think you murdered an innocent girl (and I'm very pro-cop). And if I remember correctly at least some of the detectives on this case have been found guilty (or successfully sued) for messing/misrepresenting evidence in other cases.
quote:
He appeared to have no relationship of any kind with Hae
One of the rumors is that Jay was cheating on Stephanie. Hae didn't like it since Stephanie was a friend of hers and was thinking about telling her about the cheating. Jay's motive could be anger or a desire to shut her up. I also acknowledge it's just a rumor.
quote:
Why Jay would continue to participate in such a scheme to this day despite all of the pressure and ridicule he has received when he could be the hero to ride in and save the day is nonsensical.
Don't know his plea deal, but could changing the story violate his deal? Not sure after 20 years if this is a factor or not.
quote:
cell phone evidence links Adnan's phone to locations in the city near where Hae’s body was found
Looking forward to next week's episode to break this down. I've heard everything from the cell phone data was completely unreliable to it was just not exactly 100%.
I also see a lot of comments about Jay's story changes are probably because he was high as shite. Wouldn't that hold for Adnan, too? If it was an unremarkable day that he got loaded I wouldn't expect his memory to be great 6 weeks later and especially two decades later. Hae's disappearance wasn't a really big deal that day. Many thought she just with her new boyfriend. No reason for an innocent kid to catalog his memory on that.
The easiest answer that makes the most sense is a girl was killed by her ex-boyfriend. In most cases this would be the truth and is highly probable to be true here. But there are some big issues.
It looks to me like the police had their suspect and ignored anything that didn't fit their narrative. Does that mean they were ultimately wrong? Nope. But it would have been nice to see them chase down other leads. This is the kind of thing that would scare me if ever arrested. "If you're innocent you have nothing to be scared of" is a bullshite line when dealing with cops who think you murdered an innocent girl (and I'm very pro-cop). And if I remember correctly at least some of the detectives on this case have been found guilty (or successfully sued) for messing/misrepresenting evidence in other cases.
Posted on 3/20/19 at 4:54 pm to ShamelessPel
quote:
I think the bias is a little overblown
It does. I think Sarah just got to know Rabia and Adnan more than anyone, and liked them, and that made her more sympathetic to their stories. And that came across at times in her reporting. And that's not a knock on her, she's human and has human emotions, so it's understandable. As much as reporters try not to be biased, it's nearly impossible to be 100% unbiased, 100% of the time.
Posted on 3/20/19 at 6:12 pm to The Spleen
quote:
It does. I think Sarah just got to know Rabia and Adnan more than anyone, and liked them, and that made her more sympathetic to their stories. And that came across at times in her reporting. And that's not a knock on her, she's human and has human emotions, so it's understandable. As much as reporters try not to be biased, it's nearly impossible to be 100% unbiased, 100% of the time.
The flip side to that statement is once someone finds out they’ve been potentially duped over an extended period of time and wasted effort, they’re going to get angry. If we’re making generalizations.
I think there is an inherent bias in the story. I said as much. The pure fact we’re missing Jay’s side entirely creates a bias on its own. I’m merely stating that people who are saying that Koenig has an agenda are going overboard with their assessment.
Posted on 3/20/19 at 8:16 pm to Dave Worth
quote:
Looking forward to next week's episode to break this down. I've heard everything from the cell phone data was completely unreliable to it was just not exactly 100%.
I'm really looking forward to this too. I hope they're able to give a definitive answer. Those 3 calls that pinged the Leakin Park tower between 7:00-7:30 are damning to Adnan, especially because he and his friends Saad and Rabia claimed to not even know where Leakin Park was in the first episode of Serial. The disclaimer on the cover sheet that incoming calls weren't reliable for location information was obviously one of the 2 issues Adnan was appealing most recently. Intererstingly, Colin Miller says in his blog that there's still an avenue to appeal based on this issue again because the Court of Appeals of Maryland reinstated the conviction by overturning the Asia McClain appeal and said the cell tower issue was waived. I don't completely understand what that means, but I'd really like to hear more about that.
This post was edited on 3/20/19 at 8:51 pm
Posted on 3/20/19 at 8:49 pm to medtiger
The other thing I can't get past that completely destroys the state's time line is the lividity evidence. This is actual physical evidence from the autopsy report that states Hae had fixed frontal lividity. This means that the blood in her body was all anterior (forward facing) meaning that she was laid face down after the murder. Lividity doesn't become fixed until 8-12 hours after death, and we know Hae was buried on her right side. So, if Adnan placed Hae in the trunk, she would have had to fit in there so that her whole body could be face down and stayed there for at least 8 hours. If you believe that's possible, the absolute earliest she could have been buried was 10:30 that night if she was killed at 2:30 in the Best Buy parking lot (or any other place). The calls the state say placed Adnan in Leakin Park that night were between 7:00-7:30. Adnan's call log has him making calls to many other people between 8:00-10:30.
Posted on 3/20/19 at 9:20 pm to medtiger
Why is it ok to try to blame Jay based on the evidence that is so flemsy when applied to Adnan? I thought we were supposed to be upset that happened to anybody the way it did? I guess we are not outraged about injustice just who it got applied to.
This post was edited on 3/20/19 at 9:21 pm
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