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2
Posted on 3/20/19 at 9:24 pm to JBeam
quote:
What are you talking about? This theory has floated around the Internet for some time now because Don’s mother was a manager at one of the LensCrafters in the area.
I know the theory. I’m saying that the investigators who decided the timecards were legit are full of shite. Either they blatantly lied, or they are incompetent. Bob Ruff called these people out and put up his information against what they claimed they found.
Posted on 3/20/19 at 9:29 pm to landrywasbeast30
Jay admitting his involvement and telling the cops may have been the smartest thing he ever did in his life. He was smart enough to know he would have gotten it alot worse than Adnan and had he not cooperated the whole thing would have been painted as him being the ring leader of the whole thing. People are still trying to pin the whole thing on him.
This post was edited on 3/20/19 at 9:30 pm
Posted on 3/20/19 at 9:40 pm to Rou Leed
I still dont really understand why he helped bury her and didnt get more time. I totally believe his story because he totally incriminates himself. Maybe he will clearly explain why he had the car and phone that day, and admit he was involved in the premeditation on the show next week.
Posted on 3/20/19 at 9:52 pm to Rou Leed
quote:
livity stuff is complete pseudo science nonsense.
Thanks for letting me know I should ignore anything else you have to say about this case.
Posted on 3/20/19 at 10:01 pm to medtiger
You are welcome. I guess you would like to let everybody walk based on livity evidence. Thats really crazy. If the guy was at school then went to practice, when did he get high? The timeline is messed up because Adnan is lying.
This post was edited on 3/20/19 at 10:06 pm
Posted on 3/20/19 at 10:09 pm to Rou Leed
The way this happened is dudes got high in morning, adnan said he was going to do it, left stuff with jay, went and did it, jay thought he was full of crap, got call, saw body, helped and the other stoner witnesses saw them together. Jay helped because he thought they may have a chance of getting away with it, realized they were cooked, and told the cops and probably flipped on his weed people to avoid heavier penalties.
This post was edited on 3/20/19 at 10:12 pm
Posted on 3/20/19 at 10:18 pm to Dave Worth
quote:
Dave Worth
Thanks for coming in and making some sense amid all the nonsense. You touched on some things I was also thinking about responding to.
quote:
But not everything you stated is absolute truth
This is true for a couple people in this thread.
quote:
One of the rumors is that Jay was cheating on Stephanie. Hae didn't like it since Stephanie was a friend of hers and was thinking about telling her about the cheating. Jay's motive could be anger or a desire to shut her up. I also acknowledge it's just a rumor.
Jay is literally the only person connected to the crime.
quote:
Don't know his plea deal, but could changing the story violate his deal? Not sure after 20 years if this is a factor or not.
There was a guy in the Curtis Flowers case who just came forward after basically being protected by the prosecutor for many years, and recanted his testimony. It’s not unheard of to get favors in return for helping a prosecutor.
quote:
I also see a lot of comments about Jay's story changes are probably because he was high as shite. Wouldn't that hold for Adnan, too?
Thank you! fricking common sense.
quote:
If it was an unremarkable day that he got loaded I wouldn't expect his memory to be great 6 weeks later and especially two decades later. Hae's disappearance wasn't a really big deal that day. Many thought she just with her new boyfriend. No reason for an innocent kid to catalog his memory on that.
Again, thank you. In fact, it could be said that Adnan would look more guilty if he had actually been able to recount all his movements of the day. Many of her closest friends thought she just took off.
quote:
It looks to me like the police had their suspect and ignored anything that didn't fit their narrative
The officer who took the suspicious call that got them to start looking at Adnan disappeared so he didn’t have to testify in court.
quote:
And if I remember correctly at least some of the detectives on this case have been found guilty (or successfully sued) for messing/misrepresenting evidence in other cases.
Exactly. Anyone claiming it’s silly to believe the cops might have been shady in this case isn’t looking hard enough. Reminds me of when Colin Cowherd was mocking people who thought games were being fixed, as the Tim Donaghy scandal was in the news. There are definite signs of Jay being fed information. These specific cops were known to be shady.
Susan Simpson read a long list of women who were attacked in that area, some even on the exact same road Hae would have been traveling on. I think it’s very possible Hae was killed by a stranger. Then Jay gets involved because he was the only connection the cops had to Adnan, the person they wanted to pin this on.
They probably just hung out and got high, then next thing you know they are in the middle of this tragic case. Cops had some drug charges to hang over Jay’s head to take down the angry Muslim ex-bf.
Posted on 3/20/19 at 10:27 pm to landrywasbeast30
Nobody was conspiring against Adnan. The stoner girls corroborated Jays story and he knew where the body and car was. Its simple. Lawyers are trying to make a simple thing complicated for their benefit.
Posted on 3/20/19 at 10:29 pm to Rou Leed
quote:
I guess you would like to let everybody walk based on livity evidence.
That's exactly what I said.
Again, this is all about creating reasonable doubt in the state's case. The state says Adnan called Jay at 2:36 to come pick him up right after he just killed Hae, then they dumper her car at the park and ride, rode around and smoke weed, went to "Cathy's" house and smoked some more, then by 7:00 they were in Leakin Park burying Hae's body. The lividity science says that is impossible, not to mention Jay's testimony that she was all pretzeled up in the trunk.
There are plenty of other ways this could have taken place, but the state didn't allow for any of those other ways to happen. And the defense doesn't have to provide proof that Adnan didn't do it. They simply have to provide reasonable doubt that it didn't happen the way the state says it did. If you're asking me to put someone away for life, you better have a story that makes sense.
Posted on 3/20/19 at 10:35 pm to medtiger
Nobody provided enough detail with regards to how her body was stored for the livity evidence to matter or to reach such a conclusion. She could have been face down in trunk easily. Or in back seat before being transferred to trunk. Its very unclear when or how it happened, but it happened.
This post was edited on 3/20/19 at 10:38 pm
Posted on 3/20/19 at 10:50 pm to Rou Leed
quote:
Why is it ok to try to blame Jay based on the evidence that is so flemsy when applied to Adnan? I thought we were supposed to be upset that happened to anybody the way it did? I guess we are not outraged about injustice just who it got applied to.
If Jay’s story is in any way true, he is fricking brilliant. He managed to work out a deal in which he directly connects himself to the murder of a high school girl, and just points the finger at someone else. There is no evidence Adnan did anything except for Jay saying he did. Basically, if Jay’s story has any truth to it, he is very clearly the number one suspect.
Posted on 3/20/19 at 10:58 pm to medtiger
quote:
Thanks for letting me know I should ignore anything else you have to say about this case
Yep.
Posted on 3/21/19 at 5:22 am to landrywasbeast30
quote:
If Jay’s story is in any way true, he is fricking brilliant. He managed to work out a deal in which he directly connects himself to the murder of a high school girl, and just points the finger at someone else. There is no evidence Adnan did anything except for Jay saying he did. Basically, if Jay’s story has any truth to it, he is very clearly the number one suspect.
Considering Jay’s criminal record, it’s exceptional what he was able to pull off. He isn’t elaborating on this case because he got a sweet sweet deal. This whole thing about defamation is nonsense, he was at worst associated with the murder
Posted on 3/21/19 at 6:30 am to 13SaintTiger
Its not just Jays word against Adnan. Its the other two girls that testified they saw Adnan with Jay and totally verify Jays story. Thats 3 people and nobody puts Adnan anywhere else reliably. 3 human beings went into court saying they saw guys in act of covering up crime.
This post was edited on 3/21/19 at 6:43 am
Posted on 3/21/19 at 6:48 am to Rou Leed
quote:
Its not just Jays word against Adnan. Its the other two girls that testified they saw Adnan with Jay and totally verify Jays story. Thats 3 people and nobody puts Adnan anywhere else reliably.
Those girls were friends of Jay and they saw Adnan with Jay sometime after the girl went missing. They didn’t seem him with Hae, at the scene of the crime, or en route to do it. Their testimony, one of which was called into questioning with Jay before Adnan was confirmed a suspect, was basically “Adnan got high with Jay some days after Hae went missing, the police called him and he seemed frantic”. The other testimony was of Jen saying that JAY called her telling her of the crime after the fact, which wasn’t even in the initial statement by her. That’s not evidence against Adnan and isn’t reliable. But it was enough in addition to other retrospective dubious dubious to sway the jury.
The jury wasn’t privy to everything though, which was one of the points of the podcasts and these potentially innocent case documentaries, aim to show is that the jury often doesn’t get the full picture, especially form the side of the prosecution and especially if the defense attorney isn’t good enough to paint that picture.
quote:
3 human beings went into court saying they saw guys in act of covering up crime.
You have a link to to a source of 3 human beings saying they saw Jay and Adnan covering up the murder of Hae? I’m only tracking 1
This post was edited on 3/21/19 at 6:57 am
Posted on 3/21/19 at 6:57 am to 13SaintTiger
The testimony given in front of the jury is one girl saw jay going to dumpster to take care of evidence and another saw Adnan completely freaking out saying what do i do on day of crime.
Posted on 3/21/19 at 7:04 am to Rou Leed
The jury did not see anyone saying Adnan was somewhere else not committing the acts. The only logical thing to do is convict the guy. All these facts and timeline questions that have come up 20 years after the trial were not available at trial and therefore dont really matter.
Posted on 3/21/19 at 7:06 am to Rou Leed
quote:
The testimony given in front of the jury is one girl saw jay going to dumpster to take care of evidence and another saw Adnan completely freaking out saying what do i do on day of crime.
you said one girl saw Jay go to throwaway evidence, that’s not evidence against Adnan, that’s against jay. And the girl who said she saw Adnan freaking out while he was high wasn’t the same night of the crime and she has gone back and forth on that and only added it into her very last statement, the assumption is it was added for sensationalizing an otherwise unimportant event.
This post was edited on 3/21/19 at 7:07 am
Posted on 3/21/19 at 7:10 am to Rou Leed
quote:
All these facts and timeline questions that have come up 20 years after the trial were not available at trial and therefore dont really matter.
The jury wasn’t privy to everything though, which was one of the points of the podcast and these potentially innocent case documentaries, aim to show is that the jury often doesn’t get the full picture, especially form the side of the prosecution and especially if the defense attorney isn’t good enough to paint that picture
Glad you understand why all of these documentaries are hits.
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