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re: Succession Alert
Posted on 5/1/23 at 4:58 pm to lsuwins3
Posted on 5/1/23 at 4:58 pm to lsuwins3
Really surprised at some of the criticism in this thread. I’m sure it’s a bit of a blimp before the inevitable crash, but this was absolutely a win for the ceo bros.
Was Kendall’s pitch super cringe to begin? Of course. Was the edit of his dad probably something that’ll come back to bite him in the arse? Obviously
But was repositioning a traditional company as a tech company to jackup valuations a successful play? 5-10 years ago when money was cheap and everything was growth growth growth? Absolutely, it was the easiest way to get earnings multiples inflated. It’s basically what WeWork did. He even rose above the Manson tweet which was obviously an attempt to provoke him. Everyone said it in the room afterwards, he nailed it
And Roman, was he a bit impulsive? Sure. Did he go in with a mapped-out plan? No, but at the end of the day he canned someone who it seems like was hemorrhaging money money and making shite movies while disrespecting him. Him canning her was an absolute no-brainer, and I thought if he’d done anything else it would’ve been a joke
Is he asking for respect his dad earned? Sure, but that’s the way it works folks. Regardless of how someone gets to the top, those types of folks demand respect. I’ve been fortunate to be around a couple of them, and the only thing less attractive to them than incompetence is disrespect. The handful of extremely high-level folks I know who run companies would’ve executed anyone who spoke to them like that
The Gerry firing was a bit of an overreach but still possibly defensible. I thought his comment about even if you don’t believe in me I need you to act like you do or something like that was really insightful in an odd way
They’ll surely crash in the end, but the bros somehow nailed it this episode
Was Kendall’s pitch super cringe to begin? Of course. Was the edit of his dad probably something that’ll come back to bite him in the arse? Obviously
But was repositioning a traditional company as a tech company to jackup valuations a successful play? 5-10 years ago when money was cheap and everything was growth growth growth? Absolutely, it was the easiest way to get earnings multiples inflated. It’s basically what WeWork did. He even rose above the Manson tweet which was obviously an attempt to provoke him. Everyone said it in the room afterwards, he nailed it
And Roman, was he a bit impulsive? Sure. Did he go in with a mapped-out plan? No, but at the end of the day he canned someone who it seems like was hemorrhaging money money and making shite movies while disrespecting him. Him canning her was an absolute no-brainer, and I thought if he’d done anything else it would’ve been a joke
Is he asking for respect his dad earned? Sure, but that’s the way it works folks. Regardless of how someone gets to the top, those types of folks demand respect. I’ve been fortunate to be around a couple of them, and the only thing less attractive to them than incompetence is disrespect. The handful of extremely high-level folks I know who run companies would’ve executed anyone who spoke to them like that
The Gerry firing was a bit of an overreach but still possibly defensible. I thought his comment about even if you don’t believe in me I need you to act like you do or something like that was really insightful in an odd way
They’ll surely crash in the end, but the bros somehow nailed it this episode
Posted on 5/1/23 at 5:28 pm to NolaLovingClemsonFan
quote:
They’ll surely crash in the end, but the bros somehow nailed it this episode
Ehhh, I feel like these last few episodes have really driven home how in over their heads the CE-Bros are.
They were both embarrassingly incompetent in the negotiations with Matsson. Attempting to lie about him at the beginning of this episode was also pathetic. It came across so unbelievably weak and incompetent that they seemed like children, probably why Shiv related it to their youth.
Kendall was a manic mess this entire episode, dropping inane corporate lingo word salad that didn't even make sense while running on a weird manic high. He was about to commit blatant fraud and make a national joke out of himself if both Roman and Karl hadn't made him pull himself back at the last possible minute. His decision making is erratic and borderline delusional. He fell arse backwards into a decent win for the moment despite terrible decision making up to that point.
Roman has been overly emotional and pretending to be Logan by just hastily firing people. He's a nepo baby with zero competence, which is why people don't respect him like they did Logan. I thought the show also tried to make it very clear that firing the well-connected Hollywood executive, when most talent in LA won't work with them due to ATN, was a bad decision.
They are not serious people.
Posted on 5/1/23 at 5:52 pm to MusclesofBrussels
quote:
I thought the show also tried to make it very clear that firing the well-connected Hollywood executive, when most talent in LA won't work with them due to ATN, was a bad decision.
I think firing her was a great move. She was laughing as if it was impossible. Like she was untouchable. She can blab about talent but ultimately money talks
Posted on 5/1/23 at 7:01 pm to MusclesofBrussels
quote:
They were both embarrassingly incompetent in the negotiations with Matsson. Attempting to lie about him at the beginning of this episode was also pathetic. It came across so unbelievably weak and incompetent that they seemed like children, probably why Shiv related it to their youth.
They were incompetent and unprepared, and yet they wound up with a significantly largely valuation than their dad was gonna get.
quote:
Kendall was a manic mess this entire episode, dropping inane corporate lingo word salad that didn't even make sense while running on a weird manic high. He was about to commit blatant fraud and make a national joke out of himself if both Roman and Karl hadn't made him pull himself back at the last possible minute. His decision making is erratic and borderline delusional. He fell arse backwards into a decent win for the moment despite terrible decision making up to that point.
He still ultimately nailed it, and all reports are the world loved his pitch. It was a pivot that tons of companies successfully did to get a higher valuation by being linked to tech so it’s not a crazy move by him and appears to be well received
quote:
Roman has been overly emotional and pretending to be Logan by just hastily firing people. He's a nepo baby with zero competence, which is why people don't respect him like they did Logan. I thought the show also tried to make it very clear that firing the well-connected Hollywood executive, when most talent in LA won't work with them due to ATN, was a bad decision.
Gtfo. The show did a good job of showing she’s making crap and lighting money on fire. Like Roman said, his dad would’ve done that. Heads would’ve rolled after they screened the shitty movie she was making. Any studio anywhere can get creatives. They’re all full of shite and will work for anyone who pays them
I think the show is doing a good job of showing that executives aren’t superhero’s. Is it an easy job? Absolutely not, but they’re not all a bunch of Vince Lombardi’s. The Gerry’s, Frank’s, Carl’s, etc of the world are just serfs scurrying around to try and wide the wave of their leader’s success as long as they can. And in that kind of world, someone like Kendall can stumble on a good idea and have a good day. And someone like Roman can remand respect and can (and should) fire someone who doesn’t give it to him
I still fully believe they ultimately fail, but I think this episode was showing us these people aren’t all geniuses and even the bozos amongst them can have wins (aka they’re all bozos)
Posted on 5/1/23 at 7:31 pm to MusclesofBrussels
quote:I’ve heard people say this everywhere and I just didn’t see that. It’s hard to screw up a deal you don’t even want so I’m not even sure what people mean. It seems like a reaction to Mattson just being a bully and claiming victory out of his arse.
They were both embarrassingly incompetent in the negotiations with Matsson.
Posted on 5/1/23 at 7:42 pm to UnluckyTiger
I thought this was the best episode this season. Good stuff
Posted on 5/1/23 at 8:10 pm to beaverfever
quote:
I’ve heard people say this everywhere and I just didn’t see that. It’s hard to screw up a deal you don’t even want so I’m not even sure what people mean. It seems like a reaction to Mattson just being a bully and claiming victory out of his arse.
They walked into the negotiation with him and sat there and wouldn't speak, then acted baffled and unsure of what to say or do when he went after ATN.
Posted on 5/1/23 at 8:13 pm to NolaLovingClemsonFan
quote:
He still ultimately nailed it, and all reports are the world loved his pitch. It was a pivot that tons of companies successfully did to get a higher valuation by being linked to tech so it’s not a crazy move by him and appears to be well received
If you mean WeWork or Theranos, yeah tons of companies are pulling similar moves. He lied and committed securities fraud to get a short term pump in the stock price.
quote:
Gtfo. The show did a good job of showing she’s making crap and lighting money on fire. Like Roman said, his dad would’ve done that. Heads would’ve rolled after they screened the shitty movie she was making. Any studio anywhere can get creatives.
You are completely misinterpreting a lot of the scenes.
Posted on 5/1/23 at 8:19 pm to MusclesofBrussels
I mean they didn’t want the deal, they acted aloof, the price went up. I know it wasn’t a play, but on paper that’s negotiating 101.
Posted on 5/1/23 at 8:54 pm to MusclesofBrussels
quote:Kendall is a clown. If he wasn't Logan Roy's son, he'd be working in the mail room. He speaks in corporate consultant buzz words and rarely makes any sense. Again, if he wasn't the boss' son, no one would take him seriously. I'll be disappointed if the Roy kids don't totally frick everything up because any other outcome is totally inconsistent with who they are. Their father was right, they aren't serious people.
Kendall was a manic mess this entire episode, dropping inane corporate lingo word salad
Posted on 5/1/23 at 9:14 pm to JDPndahizzy
quote:
and who Cousin Greg had to dress up as while he was working at the theme park, Brightstar Adventure Park, in the pilot episode.
Posted on 5/2/23 at 12:13 am to MusclesofBrussels
quote:
He was about to commit blatant fraud and make a national joke out of himself if both Roman and Karl hadn't made him pull himself back at the last possible minute.
I need to re-watch it but do we know if their interventions caused him to actually change the presentation? He just smiled at Karl as to say "I know. I got this."
His presentation was well thought out and he nailed the key points. Would he be that quick on his feet to improv that at the last minute?
Posted on 5/2/23 at 6:43 am to pbro62
quote:If you go through and look at the season ratings on RT etc, the first three seasons were all very highly regarded. They were “very good” IMO but the bar has clearly been raised this season. It’s just banger after banger with each episode being better than the last.
I thought this was the best episode this season. Good stuff
I’m not an appointment television guy and I’m there right now. Completely hooked.
This post was edited on 5/2/23 at 6:48 am
Posted on 5/2/23 at 7:01 am to coolpapaboze
quote:He’d actually be a formidable successor if he could just be an empty suit like most CEOs. But he’s unstable and wants to play the role of Steve Jobs/Evel Knievel in addition to being the CEO. Watching his delusions derail his future is the most painful part of the show.
Kendall is a clown. If he wasn't Logan Roy's son, he'd be working in the mail room
Posted on 5/2/23 at 7:50 am to ShootingsBricks4Life
quote:
do we know if their interventions caused him to actually change the presentation?
Instead of using the actual bullshite numbers he had the finance guy cook up in the live presentation, he scaled it back to just letting the Logan holo say a vague "double the earnings" and said for specific numbers he'd leave that to Karl. I think that was the big change, which wouldn't have been that hard to improv. I think the rest of the presentation probably remained as-is.
Posted on 5/2/23 at 11:42 am to sahikojones
quote:
he scaled it back to just letting the Logan holo say a vague "double the earnings" and said for specific numbers he'd leave that to Karl.
This is exactly why I believe he was already planning to give the speech he gave. He already had the "Logan holo" give vague numbers. There would not be a way to update that in the 20 seconds after the Karl convo even though we know how amazingly well that editing was per Greg. But yes he could have easily left out the predictions by just pointing to Karl which was the right move.
But all of this doesn't really matter because he went out by himself and crushed it. Karl's golden parachute just got a lot more shiny!
All of that being said, I can't wait to move my parents into a Living+ location!
This post was edited on 5/2/23 at 11:45 am
Posted on 5/2/23 at 2:01 pm to ShootingsBricks4Life
Something random that made me laugh from this last episode: the huge mega banner on the outside of Waystar Studio’s building that touts their big faux Minions movie - Morons. Lol
This post was edited on 5/2/23 at 2:02 pm
Posted on 5/2/23 at 2:14 pm to SpqrTiger
I’m just really glad they got this season in the can before the writers strike. Could have lead to an all-time letdown.
Posted on 5/2/23 at 2:23 pm to JDPndahizzy
quote:
The problem is not Kendall essentially promising, in a public forum, that the company would soon be able to offer eternal life (though it fits in well with Kendall in his extremely playing-God era right now), but Lukas Matsson – soon to be joint owner of the late Logan Roy’s dynasty – and his tweet responding to his lofty ambitions.
“Doderick Macht Frei,” it reads, extremely offensively, and if the words weren’t enough, Matsson has also found the time to mock up a picture of Doderick the dog, holding balloons, in front of Auschwitz.
“That’s a very nasty joke,” Roman says, and Shiv adds, “That’s what, a holocaust joke?”. Correct, and probably about one of the worst things anyone could say on social media.
The tweet is a play on words of the gates outside the World War II Nazi concentration camp of Auschwitz, which bore the lie “Arbeit macht frei”, or “Work will set you free”. According to Auschwitz’s official site, which explains the history of the phrase: “Prisoners marched out through the gate in rows of five each morning…When they returned to camp, the prisoners carried their fellow prisoners who had collapsed from exhaustion or illness, as well as those who had been worked to death or been murdered during the day.”
Matsson is essentially comparing Living+ – a compound/facility for older people, run by Waystar Royco – to a concentration camp, fronted “the family of Waystar’s cherished movie and TV characters”, like Doderick the dog. Doderick, you’ll remember, is the company’s mascot; star of the fictional kids film (“Doderick and Friends coming this spring!”, promises a poster at Investor Day earlier in this episode) and who Cousin Greg had to dress up as while he was working at the theme park, Brightstar Adventure Park, in the pilot episode.
However the character quickly gets attacked by children when a stoned Greg is out for a stroll in the park (and putting on the dog’s high-pitched voice), and he ends up vomiting through Doderick’s eyeballs.
What were the other tweets about Kendall’s speech saying?
Aside from Matsson’s abhorrent tweet (which, when called out by Shiv later on, he later deleted), otherwise, the general public seemed pretty pumped by the idea of Living+, and, even more so, by the offer of eternal lifem even if it is fronted by a cartoon dog.
On a screenshot of Hugo’s phone, above and under Matsson’s tweet, other comments read:
“Presentation today was totally compelling. I’m going long on KR”; “What would you say to an offer of immortality? I’d say yes fricking please dog. Even if the offer was from a talking dog” and “Who wants to live forever? Me! I’m in! #LivingPlus #Yesplease.”
Succession has now turned into Westworld. They're trying to get people to live forever in a fantasyland and you have to read articles after to understand the meaning of half the stuff said
I would love to punch Kendall straight in the mouth with all word vomit. Man I can't stand that dude.
At this point I just want a good ending for Greg and Tom and don't care about a single other person on the show.
Posted on 5/2/23 at 3:55 pm to coolpapaboze
quote:
Kendall is a clown. If he wasn't Logan Roy's son, he'd be working in the mail room. He speaks in corporate consultant buzz words and rarely makes any sense. Again, if he wasn't the boss' son, no one would take him seriously. I'll be disappointed if the Roy kids don't totally frick everything up because any other outcome is totally inconsistent with who they are. Their father was right, they aren't serious people.
Well he has the respect of the old folks. They never trash talk him or attempt to undermine him.
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