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re: Star Wars Episode 8: The Last Jedi Discussion Thread ***SPOILERS***
Posted on 12/20/17 at 9:07 am to Bham4Tide
Posted on 12/20/17 at 9:07 am to Bham4Tide
quote:
Disney hired the best people they can to (off-camera) do this. It doesn't matter what the old story was about (the Skywalkers), it is all about doing SOMETHING to keep the money flowing.
Well that’s pretty stupid. The core story has and should focus on the Skywalkers. That’s why i was so excited about the one off movies. There are infinite tales to be told in this universe. Characters can be introduced in the one offs and be incorporated into the saga. The EU already proved this to be possible. So don’t give me this crap about “we’ve got to move of from the Skywalkers.” That’s proving some very narrow vision of that’s the message.
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Posted on 12/20/17 at 9:08 am to OMLandshark
Having a big laser canon thing to blast through the base door was one of the least of this movie's problems.
Now you could ask how they got it down to the surface since their fleet had just been torn to shreds by Purple Haired Laura Dern's hyperspace trick, but that's a different issue. And really the main command ship wasn't totally destroyed, so it's conceivable that they had hangars intact with the proper vessels.
Now you could ask how they got it down to the surface since their fleet had just been torn to shreds by Purple Haired Laura Dern's hyperspace trick, but that's a different issue. And really the main command ship wasn't totally destroyed, so it's conceivable that they had hangars intact with the proper vessels.
Posted on 12/20/17 at 9:08 am to OMLandshark
quote:
I mean, that was basically a railgun, and I'd like to think they could build a weapon like that. Then again the Resistance is basically using gas in their ships, so who the frick knows now
Which makes it all the more mysterious why they had to go out of their way to tell the audience it’s “Death Star” tech. It’s like an intentional kick in the balls to fans crying about TFA using it again.
Posted on 12/20/17 at 9:17 am to OMLandshark
quote:
Here comes a rant that I wasn't sure needed its own thread, Both TFA and this movie clearly took a lot from Avatar: The Last Airbender, and the later didn't follow through with anything great it did. There's spoilers for both here, but I will be intentionally somewhat vague for both.
Glass shattering. You are completely right. They are basically making that show.
Posted on 12/20/17 at 9:32 am to GoCrazyAuburn
quote:
Glass shattering. You are completely right. They are basically making that show.
I guarantee this was in Abrams notes and vision. He left this behind for Johnson, Johnson took some of it and then subverted all of it. A red crystal mine would have been an awesome place to have the final duel and you can create a practical set out of it. Instead they just fly through it in the exact same manner as TFA did it.
Like would Chewie go in there? He would almost certainly crash. Rey on the other hand knew the outline of the inside of the Star Destroyer, so she could get out of there. For all Chewie knows when he turns, its an immediate dead end to where they're dead. Yet another piece of shite plot hole I just thought of.
Posted on 12/20/17 at 9:58 am to theunknownknight
quote:
Speaking of which, when did they become “rebels”? Isn’t the republic still technically in charge? And, if not, HOW? Did wiping out the First Order’s Largest Weapon make them an unstoppable conquering force in the LITERAL 15 seconds between TFA and TLJ? (As seen by the immediate lightsaber toss). How much time passed in that first scene on the island with Luke and Rey that allowed the first order to take over the galaxy?
I think it was used in the film so much to elicit nostalgia from the audience.
The in-universe explanation is that the younger generation that make up the primary combat units of the Resistance have grown up romanticizing the Rebellion and the events of the Galactic Civil War. There is also no longer a galaxy-wide government aiding them or at least we assume as much.
The governing body of the Republic was blown up with the Hosnian system. It's safe to say the majority of their fleet was as well, but it's not explained if there were any other ships elsewhere in the galaxy that will now become part of the Resistance fleet. Per the opening of TLJ, it sure didn't look like it.
The ST era has done a poor job of explaining just how powerful the First Order is. I think it has been established that their military might is more than just one star destroyer and Star Killer base, but at the same time, I don't have any reason to believe they took over the galaxy in such a short span.
I think the first line in the crawl "THE FIRST ORDER REIGNS" is just to signify their that they've finally launched their assault on Republic-controlled space and not that they have taken over as the established government of the galaxy.
In Episode 9 if there is a time jump, I can see the First Order having taken over, but I've given up trying to predict Star Wars at this point. It's clear there's no overarching plan.
This post was edited on 12/20/17 at 10:08 am
Posted on 12/20/17 at 10:19 am to BulldogXero
quote:
The governing body of the Republic was blown up with the Hosnian system. It's safe to say the majority of their fleet was as well, but it's not explained if there were any other ships elsewhere in the galaxy that will now become part of the Resistance fleet. Per the opening of TLJ, it sure didn't look like it.
But still, the Star Wars universe is massive. Are you telling me that Correlia or Courscant couldn't almost immediately put on a force together to take on the First Order in some form? It's just a few thousand people in the Resistance that's the main problem? It's impossible to believe.
And their forces have been shot to hell. I have no reason to believe that the First Order or the Resistance are a threat or have any influence on the Galaxy as a whole. It's really as if all the Nazi and Soviet forces had 95% of all their troops wiped out in Stalingrad. Everyone else in the world would be like "Well that really worked out well".
Posted on 12/20/17 at 10:24 am to BulldogXero
quote:For some reason, they are doing a poor job of conveying just what the heck is going on.
The governing body of the Republic was blown up with the Hosnian system. It's safe to say the majority of their fleet was as well, but it's not explained if there were any other ships elsewhere in the galaxy that will now become part of the Resistance fleet. Per the opening of TLJ, it sure didn't look like it.
The ST era has done a poor job of explaining just how powerful the First Order is. I think it has been established that their military might is more than just one star destroyer and Star Killer base, but at the same time, I don't have any reason to believe they took over the galaxy in such a short span.
I think the first line in the crawl "THE FIRST ORDER REIGNS" is just to signify their that they've finally launched their assault on Republic-controlled space and not that they have taken over as the established government of the galaxy.
In Poe's opening crank call, he identifies himself as a New Republic pilot. Hux immediately refutes that, saying the New Republic is dead.
What's the point of saying this, instead of Resistance? Poe delivers the line with authority, something like "stand down or the New Republic will engage your ships". Is that supposed to make Hux possibly hesitate, because the New Republic at some point had the forces to defeat Hux's battle group, and if they were elsewhere than where Starkiller shot, could they still be a concern to the First Order?
Is Poe actually technically New Republic, were the military forces kinda like the the Flying Tigers were in China before WW2 (American forces operating against Japan, but not on an official level)? If so, does that make Poe Supreme Military Leader of New Republic forces until further notice, and why he has conflict with Resistance leaders? Because he's working with them, but technically he's not... the military is 'on loan' from the New Republic to aid and assist the Resistance?
Re the attack on the Big Gun on the base doors:
can anyone tell me what, exactly, the speeders were supposed to do? They didn't seem to have guns. Seems like a kamikaze ramming attempt was the only option.
Also, a couple thoughts about this final conflict:
the lightspeed ramming of Snoke's ship visually appears to destroy every First Order ship, with the same identical white cracks. Why would it do that, instead of just Snoke's, the one it hit?
And if so... how do they then deploy a bunch of walkers for the assault? Wouldn't those likely be wrecked inside the ships, and wouldn't launching an organized assault when everyone is shocked, and likely trying to get to escape pods before it all disintegrates be the theme on those ships?
Posted on 12/20/17 at 10:28 am to Sentrius
Finally saw it last night (after somehow making my way to it spoiler free). It's still relatively fresh in my mind, and I probably will see it again soon. Overall, the film was just ok, not great by any means. IMO the comedy was over the top for a Star Wars film. I didn't care for the casino/planet plotline. It seemed unnecessary. I wish they would have started the end credits with the falcon in light speed. The end scene they used looked like a SyFy tv show.
In terms of the ending, I don't know where they go from here. Obviously, Leia will not be around for Episode IX and now Luke is out of the picture. I somewhat expected that Luke would not survive the movie, so I'm ok with that.
In terms of the ending, I don't know where they go from here. Obviously, Leia will not be around for Episode IX and now Luke is out of the picture. I somewhat expected that Luke would not survive the movie, so I'm ok with that.
Posted on 12/20/17 at 10:42 am to OMLandshark
quote:
But still, the Star Wars universe is massive. Are you telling me that Correlia or Courscant couldn't almost immediately put on a force together to take on the First Order in some form? It's just a few thousand people in the Resistance that's the main problem? It's impossible to believe. And their forces have been shot to hell. I have no reason to believe that the First Order or the Resistance are a threat or have any influence on the Galaxy as a whole. It's really as if all the Nazi and Soviet forces had 95% of all their troops wiped out in Stalingrad. Everyone else in the world would be like "Well that really worked out well".
Is it any more possible to believe than the Old Republic which existing for 1,000 years without a standing military force?
Many planets will have a planet-wide defense force that operate independently from one another, but there is now supposedly no organized military force in the galaxy aside from the First Order and the Resistance.
As it stands now, I would agree that the First Order is in no shape to conquer the galaxy unless there's more to their forces than what we saw in TLJ.
Posted on 12/20/17 at 11:05 am to BulldogXero
I just realize who Poe actually is:
Posted on 12/20/17 at 11:05 am to BulldogXero
quote:Unless someone clarifies that the task force sent to destroy the Resistance was actually NOT destroyed by the lightspeed attack, I'd say the First Order is in really bad shape.
As it stands now, I would agree that the First Order is in no shape to conquer the galaxy unless there's more to their forces than what we saw in TLJ.
Ok, let's say they have a lot more fleet and such left. Still, these aren't compliant clones, they are both zealots and draftees.
You just lost a large force attacking, what, maybe a thousand people with little military weapons?
And now Ren returns with his twenty or so survivors, and you want us to go hit a fortified planet? With an actual entire population, probable navy, wings of fighters etc? um, unless you have a better plan, bud, I'm rethinking this.
Someone mentioned the Soviets and Nazis at Stalingrad, and let's clarify things- just like the Nazis on the Eastern Front, the First Order went through a large bit of their strength. But it wasn't against the massive Soviet army, it was against a minor group of insurgents. It would be like the Japanese Navy experiencing Midway, at the hands of Greenpeace, not the US Navy.
In short, I'm not seeing any enthusiasm for attacking an actual military, coming out of this.
Posted on 12/20/17 at 11:30 am to Scoob
quote:
Re the attack on the Big Gun on the base doors: can anyone tell me what, exactly, the speeders were supposed to do? They didn't seem to have guns. Seems like a kamikaze ramming attempt was the only option.
I think they were just trying to get to the cannon before it went off so that they could sabotage it. They didn't make it in time, so Finn just tried to fly directly into the thing before it went off.
Posted on 12/20/17 at 11:31 am to BulldogXero
quote:
I think the first line in the crawl "THE FIRST ORDER REIGNS"
15 seconds - LITERALLY 15 seconds - pass between the end of TFA to TLJ
How are they suddenly reigning after just losing a huge battle and their largest weapon?
Posted on 12/20/17 at 11:34 am to Scoob
quote:
Re the attack on the Big Gun on the base doors:
can anyone tell me what, exactly, the speeders were supposed to do? They didn't seem to have guns. Seems like a kamikaze ramming attempt was the only option.
They had guns... there was a shot of the guns on Finn's speeder melting while he was setting up his Independence Day moment. Which just sets up another plot hole... how was it hot enough to melt his guns yet he wasn't cooked to death in his open cockpit?
Posted on 12/20/17 at 12:25 pm to LSUBoo
quote:does anyone ever shoot? From what I recall, Poe leads them out with his "let's go" speech, and pretty quickly they are just dodging and fleeing from strafing Ties. I don't recall a damn thing being done to the FO forces until the Falcon buzzes them.
They had guns... there was a shot of the guns on Finn's speeder melting while he was setting up his Independence Day moment
And then, it's "oh shite, they are firing up the cannon, we're too late". I mean, I don't remember anybody even shooting a rocket or blaster, though I might be forgetting...
So their plan was to drive over, past the Walkers, and hop onto it with some wrenches to break a valve, or something, with maybe a couple blasters to shoot back with? THAT doesn't seem too likely to work
It's like
Hey, you see that battalion of tanks, Apaches and A-10s and F-18's coming right at us? Let's hop into these WW2 era jeeps, drive right through the formation to get to the artillery, and unscrew the lug nuts on the tires so they can't tow them closer.
SO fricking not going to work.
Posted on 12/20/17 at 12:27 pm to Scoob
quote:
SO fricking not going to work.
Like basically everything else in the movie?
Posted on 12/20/17 at 12:30 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
just realize who Poe actually is:
No. That's Ren. And Hux is Kipp
Posted on 12/20/17 at 12:44 pm to Breesus
Touché
Posted on 12/20/17 at 12:50 pm to OMLandshark
poe is a total nothing character who is daring
he has nothing going on, he's just daring...and in the last jedi he learns that the one identifiable character trait he has is sexist and learns to be a 100% cardboard cutout...and he learns that by having his preconceived biases totally confirmed, but he learned something...somehow, and he changed? I think.
In TFA you could combine Poe and Finn for one character with enough to do and time to be expressed. in this movie, if you combine them together, you still get 0.
he has nothing going on, he's just daring...and in the last jedi he learns that the one identifiable character trait he has is sexist and learns to be a 100% cardboard cutout...and he learns that by having his preconceived biases totally confirmed, but he learned something...somehow, and he changed? I think.
In TFA you could combine Poe and Finn for one character with enough to do and time to be expressed. in this movie, if you combine them together, you still get 0.
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