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Message
re: Star Trek First Impressions (SPOILERS IN THREAD)
Posted on 5/11/09 at 10:14 pm to TigerMyth36
Posted on 5/11/09 at 10:14 pm to TigerMyth36
OK, here my take on it and this is spoiler-rrifec!
Let start with the contradiction:
1> Now I read the comic book and in my opinion, I will consider trashing it. The comic book never happened. IN the comic, Spock know's Nero, in the movie, spock said he never saw the guy before.
2> Now since the comic no longer mattered, we need to take the Narada ship at face value of what Nero told us on screen it was, that it was simply a mining ship. So being a mining shop it would actually be the weakest ships in the entire Romulan fleet. Any federation starship in the future would obliterate it without blinking an eye.
It would also explain why, being as weak as it was, 129 year old ships can even partly damage it part ways. It would also explain why he did not simply bombard the planet from Orbits. Trek Lore have War-class ships powerful enough to do heavy obritial bombardment from space.
Now I enjoyed the movie, over all, I did not know Spock tap that, but bravo. So really it's all make sense, the reason why he angry at the federation is because Romulans hate's the federation. However, the Tal'shiar is also very much alive and kicking on Romulus in that time line so if they showed up and try to warn them, most likely they would be capture and gagged and their ships taken away from them.
Now there was only one thing that irked me in the movie. Everything else I enjoyed.
The Enterprise being called the Flagship of the Federation. Originally, they made 13 ships (state of the art) to go out exploring space. The Flag ship was another ship, I forgot it's name. However, the Enterprise under Kirk was the only one that made it back to Starfleet. That's when it got made the Flagship of the fleet. That's also why Kirk and crew was famous and how he got promoted to Admiral.
Let start with the contradiction:
1> Now I read the comic book and in my opinion, I will consider trashing it. The comic book never happened. IN the comic, Spock know's Nero, in the movie, spock said he never saw the guy before.
2> Now since the comic no longer mattered, we need to take the Narada ship at face value of what Nero told us on screen it was, that it was simply a mining ship. So being a mining shop it would actually be the weakest ships in the entire Romulan fleet. Any federation starship in the future would obliterate it without blinking an eye.
It would also explain why, being as weak as it was, 129 year old ships can even partly damage it part ways. It would also explain why he did not simply bombard the planet from Orbits. Trek Lore have War-class ships powerful enough to do heavy obritial bombardment from space.
Now I enjoyed the movie, over all, I did not know Spock tap that, but bravo. So really it's all make sense, the reason why he angry at the federation is because Romulans hate's the federation. However, the Tal'shiar is also very much alive and kicking on Romulus in that time line so if they showed up and try to warn them, most likely they would be capture and gagged and their ships taken away from them.
Now there was only one thing that irked me in the movie. Everything else I enjoyed.
The Enterprise being called the Flagship of the Federation. Originally, they made 13 ships (state of the art) to go out exploring space. The Flag ship was another ship, I forgot it's name. However, the Enterprise under Kirk was the only one that made it back to Starfleet. That's when it got made the Flagship of the fleet. That's also why Kirk and crew was famous and how he got promoted to Admiral.
This post was edited on 5/11/09 at 10:17 pm
2
Posted on 5/12/09 at 3:31 am to Duzz
I thought the movie was great. If you comb it for fleas you'll find some, but I thought it was a great ride and the casting was extremely well done. JJ Abrams and co. did a great job at modernizing the franchise and staying true to the characters. I haven't watched a lot of the original series for a long time and this has inspired me to go back.
Posted on 5/12/09 at 7:57 am to BigAppleTiger
SPOILER ALERT --
After digesting these, some final thoughts --
1.) Concensus is the biggest bugaboo is Nero sitting around 154 years in the past waiting 25 years for Spock [now 129 years til Romulus' destruction], and not trying to warn Romulus of the impending supernova. The main thrust of his vengeance is the death of his wife and family. So go save them Idiot! Even if one assumes the multi-worlds theory and that the time line with Romulus' destruction continues to exist, then go create a new time line where a mysterious Romulan from the past shows up and prevents the destruction of the planet. That in fact will be the only time line in which the planet will survive. But does Nero consider any of this during those 25 years? No. He sits around brooding and plotting vengeance. One would think that the light bulb would go off in the minds of his ship mates.
2.) I agree that it is ridiculous that no other flying vessel of any kind could come in and attack the drill, which is nothing more than a 25 mile piece of big chain.
3.) How in the hell does the Nerada have so much fire power? It's a miner for crissakes. Sure it's from 129 years in the future, and its weapons would be powerful, but in order for it to destroy 7 starships in something like 10 seconds, it would need to bombard those ships as they drop out of warp with something akin to about 300 missiles each.
4.) A supernova threatening the entire galaxy? As someone else observed, if that were to occur, it would be from far beyond the Romulan system, the Romulans would have many, many years to evacuate the planet, and Nero's family would not have perished. This seems to have been a script error. Clearly it was the Romulan sun, and if it went supernova, there's not much that could have been done, except for a miracle, and so Nero's vengeance doesn't make sense.
5.) I agree -- if a single drop of Red Matter can make a planet implode into a singularity, then when 10 gallons of the stuff gets ignited, the entire universe should get sucked into a massive black hole.
A possible future plot line would be for Star Fleet, knowing that Romulus will be destroyed in 129 years, to offer aid to the Romulans to preserve their home world, which would in turn create a new time line where Vulcan is preserved.
I still liked the move even with all these plot problems.
After digesting these, some final thoughts --
1.) Concensus is the biggest bugaboo is Nero sitting around 154 years in the past waiting 25 years for Spock [now 129 years til Romulus' destruction], and not trying to warn Romulus of the impending supernova. The main thrust of his vengeance is the death of his wife and family. So go save them Idiot! Even if one assumes the multi-worlds theory and that the time line with Romulus' destruction continues to exist, then go create a new time line where a mysterious Romulan from the past shows up and prevents the destruction of the planet. That in fact will be the only time line in which the planet will survive. But does Nero consider any of this during those 25 years? No. He sits around brooding and plotting vengeance. One would think that the light bulb would go off in the minds of his ship mates.
2.) I agree that it is ridiculous that no other flying vessel of any kind could come in and attack the drill, which is nothing more than a 25 mile piece of big chain.
3.) How in the hell does the Nerada have so much fire power? It's a miner for crissakes. Sure it's from 129 years in the future, and its weapons would be powerful, but in order for it to destroy 7 starships in something like 10 seconds, it would need to bombard those ships as they drop out of warp with something akin to about 300 missiles each.
4.) A supernova threatening the entire galaxy? As someone else observed, if that were to occur, it would be from far beyond the Romulan system, the Romulans would have many, many years to evacuate the planet, and Nero's family would not have perished. This seems to have been a script error. Clearly it was the Romulan sun, and if it went supernova, there's not much that could have been done, except for a miracle, and so Nero's vengeance doesn't make sense.
5.) I agree -- if a single drop of Red Matter can make a planet implode into a singularity, then when 10 gallons of the stuff gets ignited, the entire universe should get sucked into a massive black hole.
A possible future plot line would be for Star Fleet, knowing that Romulus will be destroyed in 129 years, to offer aid to the Romulans to preserve their home world, which would in turn create a new time line where Vulcan is preserved.
I still liked the move even with all these plot problems.
Posted on 5/12/09 at 10:41 am to CU-onda-BIU
If a few minutes after seeing the movie, we can come up with the fact that all Nero has to do is get Spock's ship, head to the Nova sun and save his planet then I would assume in 25 years, Nero could come to the same conclusion.
When he entered the black hole, he was in a state of rage, so I understand him destroying the Kelven, but in the next 25 years, he should have realized that he could save his wife and kids and Romulus.
By the way not everyone subscribes to the alternate time line theory. It is possible by saving Romulus, it would just be changing his time line. The multiple times, the Trek universe characters have gone back in time there has never been a discussion that their world was destroyed, but a new happier timeline was created.
The problem is that if he did use the red matter to save Romulus, then Romulus would rule the galaxy. They would reverse engineer his weapons and ship and make a massive fleet which would destroy the federation and klingon empires.
The main reason why time travel stories should never be used. Too damn many ways to pick apart the stories.
When he entered the black hole, he was in a state of rage, so I understand him destroying the Kelven, but in the next 25 years, he should have realized that he could save his wife and kids and Romulus.
By the way not everyone subscribes to the alternate time line theory. It is possible by saving Romulus, it would just be changing his time line. The multiple times, the Trek universe characters have gone back in time there has never been a discussion that their world was destroyed, but a new happier timeline was created.
The problem is that if he did use the red matter to save Romulus, then Romulus would rule the galaxy. They would reverse engineer his weapons and ship and make a massive fleet which would destroy the federation and klingon empires.
The main reason why time travel stories should never be used. Too damn many ways to pick apart the stories.
Posted on 5/12/09 at 10:47 am to TigerMyth36
Haven't seen it yet. Was wondering if the actors were convincing as younger versions of the original actors. Watching the previews Spock looks the part, but not sold on Kirk or the others from what I've seen.
Posted on 5/12/09 at 10:53 am to MasonTiger
You will be.
Posted on 5/12/09 at 10:53 am to MasonTiger
I think the average Trek fan likes all the younger versions.
Spock was good. Played slightly more human than on TOS.
Uhura. Major upgrade. She is hot!
Sulu. He was fine, but didn't have many lines.
Chekov. Accent was a touch annoying. Hope they tamp it down a bit.
Bones. Great. Given many tasty lines.
Scotty. Great. Also given many good one liners.
Kirk. I initially hated the choice when they announced Pine would be Kirk. Think he pulled it off just fine.
Spock was good. Played slightly more human than on TOS.
Uhura. Major upgrade. She is hot!
Sulu. He was fine, but didn't have many lines.
Chekov. Accent was a touch annoying. Hope they tamp it down a bit.
Bones. Great. Given many tasty lines.
Scotty. Great. Also given many good one liners.
Kirk. I initially hated the choice when they announced Pine would be Kirk. Think he pulled it off just fine.
Posted on 5/12/09 at 10:54 am to Fewer Kilometers
I was confused as to why Winona Ryder was cast as an older woman, then I found out that they cut her scenes as the mother of baby Spock.
Posted on 5/12/09 at 10:55 am to Fewer Kilometers
I think that Pine gave the best performance in the movie. He had the task of channeling Shatner without becoming a cartoonish parody (not an easy chore).
Posted on 5/12/09 at 11:16 am to TigerMyth36
quote:
Spock was good. Played slightly more human than on TOS.
I was a little disappointed. It's not the look; Quinto looks Vulcan even without makeup. I didn't have a problem with the way he played it. I think it's the voice. His is too soft. Spock and Sarek had great pipes.
quote:
Uhura. Major upgrade. She is hot!
She is hot, but she is not an upgrade.
quote:
Sulu. He was fine, but didn't have many lines.
quote:
Chekov. Accent was a touch annoying. Hope they tamp it down a bit.
Worst casting by far.
quote:
Bones. Great. Given many tasty lines.
Agree..
quote:
Scotty. Great. Also given many good one liners.
Agree
quote:
Kirk. I initially hated the choice when they announced Pine would be Kirk. Think he pulled it off just fine.
As someone else said, I think he did a great job of projecting the essence of Kirk without mimicking Shatner.
Posted on 5/12/09 at 11:28 am to Fewer Kilometers
I agree WHOLEHEARTEDLY that Star Trek needs to move away from the damned time-travel stories. Seriously, does ANYONE like these plot lines?
I would rather see more conflict/development/adventure with the existing "nations" like the Federation, the Klingons, Romulans, Orion Pirates, the Borg, etc. in a stable time line.
I've never really felt that the movies and later TV series which feature the Romulans have ever really gotten them RIGHT. It's like they're re-written every time you see them. Their political/social structure is never the same from appearance to appearance, their ships never look consistent... in one movie there were Remans (?) running the show... they're overly-aggressive and warlike in one episode and sneaky and covert in another. They have the plasma torpedo in original Star Trek, then you never see it again. They hate Vulcans in one instance and are willing to work with them in another... Seriously, Trek writers, what the hell?
I don't think they can get away with using the Romulans again for a long time.
Bring on the Kirk/Klingons rivalry!
I would rather see more conflict/development/adventure with the existing "nations" like the Federation, the Klingons, Romulans, Orion Pirates, the Borg, etc. in a stable time line.
I've never really felt that the movies and later TV series which feature the Romulans have ever really gotten them RIGHT. It's like they're re-written every time you see them. Their political/social structure is never the same from appearance to appearance, their ships never look consistent... in one movie there were Remans (?) running the show... they're overly-aggressive and warlike in one episode and sneaky and covert in another. They have the plasma torpedo in original Star Trek, then you never see it again. They hate Vulcans in one instance and are willing to work with them in another... Seriously, Trek writers, what the hell?
I don't think they can get away with using the Romulans again for a long time.
Bring on the Kirk/Klingons rivalry!
Posted on 5/12/09 at 11:30 am to Indiana Tiger
I disagree. Uhura is a major upgrade. She is hot. I never found TOS uhura remotely attractive and she was barely every given any lines.
New Uhura is way hotter and it appears she will be more integral to the plot than TOS Uhura.
New Uhura is way hotter and it appears she will be more integral to the plot than TOS Uhura.
Posted on 5/12/09 at 11:36 am to TigerMyth36
The original was a product of the time. This one is hotter because they let her show skin. But to each his own.
Posted on 5/12/09 at 11:42 am to Indiana Tiger
Did anyone else think it was neat that no matter what timeline or rewriting of history occurred, the fates of the main characters were intertwined? Like it was destiny that they all would be together on the Enterprise.
Posted on 5/12/09 at 12:37 pm to Fewer Kilometers
quote:
I think that Pine gave the best performance in the movie.
He was excellent. I was pleasantly surprised at his performance. He's Kirk now.
Posted on 5/12/09 at 12:52 pm to Tigersicles
quote:
He was excellent. I was pleasantly surprised at his performance. He's Kirk now.
I've never seen this kid in anything. He totally nailed it. Gave the movie it's heart and brashness. Yep... he's Kirk now.
Posted on 5/12/09 at 12:53 pm to Duzz
quote:
The Enterprise being called the Flagship of the Federation. Originally, they made 13 ships (state of the art) to go out exploring space. The Flag ship was another ship, I forgot it's name.
According to the Star Fleet Technical Manual, the original Enterprise was a Constitution-class heavy cruiser. That would make Constitution the flagship of the existing fleet.
There was a Dreadnought class of starship that was one size larger, but had yet to be built.
God, I feel like such a geek for knowing all this.
Posted on 5/12/09 at 12:56 pm to TigerMyth36
quote:
New Uhura is way hotter
Can't agree. Nichelle Nichols (original Uhura) was built like a brick starbase.
Posted on 5/12/09 at 1:22 pm to Volvagia
Read these 2 links and tell me what you think!
Back ground story to the new Star Trek Movie This is basically a summary of the comics that someone mentions above.
EXCLUSIVE: Bob Orci Explains How The New Star Trek Movie Fits With Trek Canon (and Real Science)
This will answer some peoples questions and probably confuse other people and others will say BS because in the new movie Spock Prime says this... yada yada yada.
Back ground story to the new Star Trek Movie This is basically a summary of the comics that someone mentions above.
EXCLUSIVE: Bob Orci Explains How The New Star Trek Movie Fits With Trek Canon (and Real Science)
This will answer some peoples questions and probably confuse other people and others will say BS because in the new movie Spock Prime says this... yada yada yada.
This post was edited on 5/12/09 at 1:24 pm
Posted on 5/12/09 at 3:13 pm to GeauxMez
The more I think about it, I've got another problem with the plot. Why the necessiy of drilling down into the planet? Couldn't they just drop the red matter onto the planet and allow the singularity to form on the surface? Why all the additional production of making a miles long drill? (other than it looked good on the screen)
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