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re: Official "Inception" Thread (***SPOILERS***)
Posted on 7/20/10 at 1:53 pm to Freauxzen
Posted on 7/20/10 at 1:53 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
It's supposed to be, "Once you enter limbo, you forget your are there and are stuck forever." They never get into what happens if you end up exiting, the indication at the end being Saito and Leo dying, which causes them to exit.
Hmm. I really think that's wrong. I seem to remember them perhaps even using the word "mush" to talk about what the brain would be like back in reality.
1
Posted on 7/20/10 at 1:53 pm to Baloo
quote:
Throw in her unexplained and borderline obsessive interest in Leo's memories and dreams, and that's why I have the theory she was brought on board to architect a dreamscape for Leo at the end, which will become his reality.
I'm really leaning towards this explanation. Especially given the info from the guy who said he watched the credits to the end.
Posted on 7/20/10 at 1:57 pm to Tiger JJ
quote:
Hmm. I really think that's wrong. I seem to remember them perhaps even using the word "mush" to talk about what the brain would be like back in reality.
If you remained in limbo/dreamworlds, yes. Which is the ending Baloo and I would agree with.
I don't remember the exact discussion either, but for the other interpretations of the film to be correct, it must be possible to exit limbo.
Posted on 7/20/10 at 1:57 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
If you remained in limbo/dreamworlds, yes. Which is the ending Baloo and I would agree with.
I don't remember the exact discussion either, but for the other interpretations of the film to be correct, it must be possible to exit limbo.
Possible to exit, yes, but unscathed?
Posted on 7/20/10 at 2:14 pm to Tiger JJ
quote:Breaking my rule of neever assume anything, but I assume it is POSSIBLE to exit relatively unscathed. There was no timetable set up on how long one must be in limbo to have their brain turned to mush, but let's assume Ellen Page, whose stay was incredibly brief, would suffer no ill effects while Saito, who was in there for what seemed like a half a lifetime, would be as scrambled as Mal and Leo. It would take longer to get to dramatic brain damage in line with being a vegetable. Or leaving unwillingly. I think the recognition it was a dream helps the person cope with leaving.
Possible to exit, yes, but unscathed?
Then there is the possibility that Saito never got out and Leo's perception of him on the plane is just a projection, not a shared dream.
Posted on 7/20/10 at 2:20 pm to Tiger JJ
quote:
JerseyTiger
I think a lot of your questions point to the whole movie being a dream. Now that I think back, I think there were a lot of little things in the "real world" that really only make sense if you suspend logic. Sure, we can just assume different things to make them work (ie your questions about Juno, Mal on the opposite balcony, clearing his murder charges with one phone call etc...) or we can accept that dreams don't make sense and your brain just builds them as needed, ignoring small logical inconsistencies.
I also heard that after the credits the song that they use as a countdown to the kick plays, in effect preparing the audience to awake from the dream they just experienced. I think the point of the movie was that even if it was all "just a dream" does it really matter? I mean its all "just a movie" but that doesn't change the way you are effected by the story and its characters. Just like the "real life" version of the characters are effected by things that only happen in their dreams, the audience is effected by things that happen only in a movie. If its a movie where the people are supposed to be real or if its a movies where its all a dream, its doesn't matter because the effect is the same.
As far as the totems go, I think people are reaching too far with their meaning. Some seem to think that its a symbol for dream world vs real world, but I think there is only an indication in the movie that the totems signify that they are not in someone else's dream. The way that totems work is that there is a secret function that only the owner of the totem knows, such as Arthur's die. Its weighted so that it always rolls a certain number. The only information that he can gather from that is that he is not in someone else's dream, because if it were his dream, his brain knows how the die is supposed to work and can adjust the dream for it to work accordingly. Therefore the only significance of the top spinning at the end is whether or not Leo is in someone else's dream. (Also, do we ever see Leo spin his totem in the "real world" after WE, the audience, find out everything about his totem? I don't remember)
IMO the theory in the article I posted, and kinda expressed here is the most interesting. I plan on seeing it again while interpreting it through that scope.
ETA: I haven't seen anyone really mention anything about the numbers in the movie, but I think they were always the same. 528461 or something like that. Is it just because it was a significant number hidden in Fischer's subconscious?
This post was edited on 7/20/10 at 2:29 pm
Posted on 7/20/10 at 2:21 pm to Tiger JJ
quote:
Possible to exit, yes, but unscathed?
I just interpreted the comment as: If you never leave you are a vegetable in real life, hence the mush.
Posted on 7/20/10 at 2:30 pm to Freauxzen
I think I am just convinced at this point that Juno was hired by Caine to "rescue" his son by creating a palatable dream world reality for him.
Posted on 7/20/10 at 2:56 pm to Freauxzen
Saw it for a second time last night this time with the wife. After the first viewing, I thought the end was reality. After seeing it a second time and talking with my wife, I am leaning towards the whole thing being a dream, even the "reality" level.
My interpretation of how to get out of limbo is to get killed. When Juno and Scarecrow plummet to their deaths in limbo, they get kicked up to snow area and then ride the further kicks up. I am guessing when Saito and Cobb escape they can't get kicked up because those dreams don't exist anymore. So they go straight to "reality."
So in thinking about original limbo with Mal. They went into limbo for going in a dream within a dream. So when they put their heads down on the tracks and killed themselves, they should have been kicked up to a dream ala Juno and Scarecrow. Whether it was Cobb or Mal's dream we don't know. SO waking up on the floor should have been a dream within a dream, but is presented as "reality." It was only the two of them experimenting so those dreams should still have existed.
Either way it's a fascinating movie.
My interpretation of how to get out of limbo is to get killed. When Juno and Scarecrow plummet to their deaths in limbo, they get kicked up to snow area and then ride the further kicks up. I am guessing when Saito and Cobb escape they can't get kicked up because those dreams don't exist anymore. So they go straight to "reality."
So in thinking about original limbo with Mal. They went into limbo for going in a dream within a dream. So when they put their heads down on the tracks and killed themselves, they should have been kicked up to a dream ala Juno and Scarecrow. Whether it was Cobb or Mal's dream we don't know. SO waking up on the floor should have been a dream within a dream, but is presented as "reality." It was only the two of them experimenting so those dreams should still have existed.
Either way it's a fascinating movie.
Posted on 7/20/10 at 3:09 pm to Tiger JJ
quote:My argument as well.
I think I am just convinced at this point that Juno was hired by Caine to "rescue" his son by creating a palatable dream world reality for him.
Posted on 7/20/10 at 4:17 pm to Baloo
I just got out of the Imax showing with the high end sound system. And after seeing it for the 3rd time, and after all the reading I have done, I am convinced it's all a dream. From the opening scene, till the screen goes black. And I can guarantee you that there is NO sound of the top falling over at the end. Now I never stayed till the very end of the credits to see if there was a fleeting shot or sound of the top falling over. I didn't think about that till half way home.
This post was edited on 7/20/10 at 4:33 pm
Posted on 7/20/10 at 4:26 pm to Geauxldineye
quote:
And I can guarantee you that there is NO sound of the top falling over at the end.
yea i went today for a 2nd time and paid particular attention to this, and i didnt hear anything
at first i bought the its all a dream theory, but it seemed as if i was having to reach and look for very minor things to validate it, while evidence for it not being a dream seemed easier to come by...perhaps that was on purpose by nolan, idk
either way, no theory is flawless, it was just a great movie and i cant wait for the dvd with director commentary
Posted on 7/20/10 at 5:03 pm to DBG
quote:
Is it just because it was a significant number hidden in Fischer's subconscious
528491. They were just random numbers demanded by Cobb and Arthur "the first 6 numbers that come into your head" . They used those numbers in the subsequent deeper dream levels to use for the 2 hotel rooms. One was 528, the room below 528 where the charges were initially set was 491. It was written on the napkin that Eames, disguised as the blond at the bar gave Fischer, to remind him of the numbers that he would later use as the combination to open the safe in his own subconscious in the snow fortress.
This post was edited on 7/20/10 at 5:09 pm
Posted on 7/20/10 at 5:08 pm to Geauxldineye
quote:
Then there is the possibility that Saito never got out and Leo's perception of him on the plane is just a projection, not a shared dream
After watching it again today, you never see Cobb or Saito get out of that van. The cut jumps from where Saito, as an old man and Cobb have their conversation about being young men together again, and you see Saito caress the gun. Then all of a sudden Cobb wakes up on the plane. You never see how either get out of the van or wake up in that level.
Posted on 7/20/10 at 5:10 pm to Geauxldineye
If it's all a dream, doesn't that imply that Leo will have to be asleep forever for Caine's plan to work?
Posted on 7/20/10 at 5:15 pm to Tiger JJ
possibly. Remember the scene where they met Yusef, and he takes them to that basement where those 12 people where there sedated in their "shared dream"? Cobb could very well be somewhere just like that. Remember Cobb said that the only way he could dream was while hooked up to the machine. The old black man who was in the basement watching over the 12 people said that he was there to "wake them up from their reality" their reality had become their shared dream.
This post was edited on 7/20/10 at 5:29 pm
Posted on 7/20/10 at 5:19 pm to Geauxldineye
It's why I think that scene exists. Yes, Cobb would have to sleep forever.
Posted on 7/20/10 at 6:47 pm to DBG
quote:
And after seeing it for the 3rd time, and after all the reading I have done, I am convinced it's all a dream. From the opening scene, till the screen goes black.
I don't understand why you are so sure of this. I can maybe understand the Juno created his fake world thing, but that is even a stretch. But the entire movie being a dream is ridiculous.
Posted on 7/20/10 at 6:50 pm to DallasTiger11
why do people on here keep calling Ellen Page Juno? Has she been type cast already?
Posted on 7/20/10 at 6:53 pm to Geauxldineye
Because no one saw any of her movies between Juno and Inception, and Juno was the only movie anyone ever knew her from.
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