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re: OFFICIAL - The Dark Knight Rises Discussion Thread - *SPOILERS*
Posted on 7/25/12 at 9:54 am to EarthwormJim
Posted on 7/25/12 at 9:54 am to EarthwormJim
Nothing in these movies is plausible. The entire villain plot of Batman Begins is less plausible than Bane's plot because it relied on technology that DOES NOT even exist. The Joker could not do everything he does in The Dark Knight in the real world because almost all of his plans in the second and third acts relied on forecasting future events.
Does that take any enjoyment value out of these movies for me? Hell no!
Now I think Christopher Nolan is a good filmmaker but I don't think he's the greatest filmmaker of all-time. He makes good movies but anyone who actually thinks he made these Batman movies to win Oscars is kidding themselves. The Dark Knight was a perfect storm in a weak Oscar year. That's the only reason why it was even in the running for a nomination for Best Picture.
Does that take any enjoyment value out of these movies for me? Hell no!
Now I think Christopher Nolan is a good filmmaker but I don't think he's the greatest filmmaker of all-time. He makes good movies but anyone who actually thinks he made these Batman movies to win Oscars is kidding themselves. The Dark Knight was a perfect storm in a weak Oscar year. That's the only reason why it was even in the running for a nomination for Best Picture.
This post was edited on 7/25/12 at 9:57 am
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Posted on 7/25/12 at 10:00 am to Baloo
quote:
Batman's costume has always been functional, so why is Catwoman wearing a mask? It just seemed like an excuse to put her in a costume.
She was a cat burglar and her goggles served some purpose, but your point is taken.
quote:
Bane puts Wayne in a prison in India and Wayne escapes and makes his way back to Gotham with all of the borders being watched at all times. Ummm... how did Wayne and Bane travel like this? And why did we have an Indian setting?
Good point, but personally I don't find that harder to believe than Wayne surviving on his own in jail and being trained by the League of Shadows in Begins.
quote:
The opening plane sequence, while fun, had no relation to reality whatsoever, and set a tone for the movie.
I would say the same for the opening scene of TDK or the scene where he kidnaps the Japanese guy and escapes by having a plane catch him.
quote:
An underground army, living in the sewers, rises up and then eventually fights a police army?
Man, they poured a lot of explosive concrete, eh?
They were hidden by there infrastructure work that was going on in the city.
quote:
The bat-copter
The Bat-tank? The Bat-cycle?
quote:
It just felt more comic book-y, and at no point did I think any of Bane's plan could have worked in a real world.
I understand your opinion, but I don't see anything in this movie that was more unrealistic than the first 2.
Posted on 7/25/12 at 10:01 am to RollTide1987
And if I had the time, I could come up with a list of 15 things that "bothered" me from Batman Begins and The Dark Knight because the same so-called logic gaps and "plot holes" that populate The Dark Knight Rises exist in Batman Begins and The Dark Knight.
Posted on 7/25/12 at 10:03 am to Scoob
quote:
Hey jackass, maybe look to see who posted what before you get your fanboi panties in a wad.
I knew I wasn't responding to you. I just wanted to throw you into it too.
Posted on 7/25/12 at 10:20 am to EarthwormJim
I felt another element that was missing from this film that grounded the previous two was the crime drama / detective aspect. The first two films contain elements of busting mobsters and trial court drama that Rises doesn't have. That isn't necessarily a complaint against Rises, but face it, Rises is and will be judged by it predecessors.
Bane is explained away by Alfred's off screen research if I recall correctly. Bruce looks Selina up rather quickly in one scene. Blake just knows who Batman is. The only courtroom is a sideshow of "sentencing hearings.".
All that means is that Rises is different, but maybe that is one of the "grounded in realism" aspects that is missing.
Bane is explained away by Alfred's off screen research if I recall correctly. Bruce looks Selina up rather quickly in one scene. Blake just knows who Batman is. The only courtroom is a sideshow of "sentencing hearings.".
All that means is that Rises is different, but maybe that is one of the "grounded in realism" aspects that is missing.
Posted on 7/25/12 at 10:25 am to DanglingFury
quote:Nice. Whatever. Part of what's killing this movie was the massive expectations- I sure wanted to like it, and coming out I tried to make excuses for it too. Just like I tried to somehow fit Jar-Jar and little orphan Ani/Darth into my expectations on the Phantom Menace... until after a couple days it didn't work, and I got sick of fanboys screaming "it's perfection! it's Star Wars!"
Hey jackass, maybe look to see who posted what before you get your fanboi panties in a wad.
I knew I wasn't responding to you. I just wanted to throw you into it too.
My feelings towards this movie are starting to parallel that of SW Episode 1.
You lose a lot of the "it's a movie" slack, after all the buildup and trolling that came after The Avengers came out. "yeah Avengers is neat, but it's popcorn. TDKR is a whole other level, it will be Filet Mignon".
goddamn it, some mf doing 60 in a subdivision just ran my dad's boxer over. my discuss done peace yall
Posted on 7/25/12 at 10:28 am to DanglingFury
How's everybody doing today? Over 70 pages I see. This has become like a m/tv board IM thread. 
Posted on 7/25/12 at 10:29 am to RollTide1987
quote:
And if I had the time, I could come up with a list of 15 things that "bothered" me from Batman Begins and The Dark Knight because the same so-called logic gaps and "plot holes" that populate The Dark Knight Rises exist in Batman Begins and The Dark Knight.
Fans of the movie keep pointing to "nitpicking," but shouldn't the fact that this "nitpicking" wasn't done with the first two films say something about Rises. Maybe the first films have similar flaws, but overall they were very well received. Why did we overlook these "nitpicks" in the first two films that are loved, but not with Rises?
Maybe, it's because it's just not as good. Something is just dissatisfying about Rises to some viewers. Maybe, it was an expectations thing. Maybe, something else. But the fact that the other films weren't "nitpicked" says something.
Posted on 7/25/12 at 10:30 am to Scoob
quote:
Just like I tried to somehow fit Jar-Jar and little orphan Ani/Darth into my expectations on the Phantom Menace... until after a couple days it didn't work, and I got sick of fanboys screaming "it's perfection! it's Star Wars!"
You've posted some dumb things in this thread, but this is by far the dumbest.
Posted on 7/25/12 at 10:31 am to Baloo
I don't get how you suspend disbelief and praise the avengers for being comic booky, but not so much for TDKR?
Posted on 7/25/12 at 10:33 am to Scoob
quote:
goddamn it, some mf doing 60 in a subdivision just ran my dad's boxer over. my discuss done peace yall
Wow. Sorry to hear that. What a crazy post.
Posted on 7/25/12 at 10:40 am to Archie Bengal Bunker
quote:
Fans of the movie keep pointing to "nitpicking," but shouldn't the fact that this "nitpicking" wasn't done with the first two films say something about Rises. Maybe the first films have similar flaws, but overall they were very well received. Why did we overlook these "nitpicks" in the first two films that are loved, but not with Rises?
The Dark Knight Rises was well-received too. It's currently sitting on Rotten Tomatoes with an 87% fresh percentage and an average rating of 8/10.
In comparison, Batman Begins sits at 85% with a 7.7/10 average rating. The Dark Knight is at 93% with an average rating of 8.4/10. And people nitpicked and still nitpick at The Dark Knight four years later. There's one or two topics a month on this very message board nitpicking the Joker's whole plan to hell.
On Meta Critic the percentages are fairly close, too. Batman Begins holds a 70/100, The Dark Knight holds an 82/100, and The Dark Knight Rises holds a 78/100. By comparison, The Avengers holds a 69/100.
This post was edited on 7/25/12 at 10:43 am
Posted on 7/25/12 at 10:44 am to Scoob
quote:
goddamn it, some mf doing 60 in a subdivision just ran my dad's boxer over.
Damn, sorry man, that's awful. Prayers sent.
Posted on 7/25/12 at 10:52 am to Scoob
quote:
You lose a lot of the "it's a movie" slack, after all the buildup and trolling that came after The Avengers came out. "yeah Avengers is neat, but it's popcorn. TDKR is a whole other level, it will be Filet Mignon".
This is actually a very good point. the fan boys have been pounding the "Nolan creates such a realistic world" drum for so long and now they want to back out and say, hey its a comic book movie! sure they did a piss poor job of building this character, but hey, its all in the comics! The movie is Ok. It however failed to meet its potential based on the set up of the first two films.
Posted on 7/25/12 at 10:53 am to BilJ
Because The Avengers is supposed to be comic booky. It's got a flying aircraft carrier, for godsakes. It makes no pretense of being anything other than this Epic Heroic Tale. It's larger than life at every turn, and it's filmed with bright colors and with exaggerated everything. It is larger than life. Hell, even the villains are aliens. There's no tether to realism. It's not even trying to do that. It's trying to tell a wish-fulfillment story about Superheroes.
Batman has never done this. Batman has always been somewhat grounded in reality (at least the Nolan series). Sure, it is has fanastical elements as it is a movie about a superhero after all, but it has tried to at least make it resemble the world around us. Even the Batman gadgets were grounded in current military technology. They gave a plausible reason for things, so long as you suspended disbelief.
This third Batman film goes more into Avengers comic book territory, but still wants to be taken seriously as somewhat grounded in reality. By trying to do both, it does neither. The Avengers fully committed to "this is a live action comic book" in a way this film did not. It wanted to still have some relation to reality, even as it removed the anchors to reality. It just felt less real. I was taken out of the film more in this one, compared to the first two Batmans.
Still, I enjoyed it. It was good. It just wasn't great. Dark Knight was great.
Batman has never done this. Batman has always been somewhat grounded in reality (at least the Nolan series). Sure, it is has fanastical elements as it is a movie about a superhero after all, but it has tried to at least make it resemble the world around us. Even the Batman gadgets were grounded in current military technology. They gave a plausible reason for things, so long as you suspended disbelief.
This third Batman film goes more into Avengers comic book territory, but still wants to be taken seriously as somewhat grounded in reality. By trying to do both, it does neither. The Avengers fully committed to "this is a live action comic book" in a way this film did not. It wanted to still have some relation to reality, even as it removed the anchors to reality. It just felt less real. I was taken out of the film more in this one, compared to the first two Batmans.
Still, I enjoyed it. It was good. It just wasn't great. Dark Knight was great.
This post was edited on 7/25/12 at 10:57 am
Posted on 7/25/12 at 11:01 am to Baloo
quote:
Baloo
There he is!
quote:
Mrs Baloo loved it
I like your wife more and more every time you mention her opinion. HEY O!
quote:
IT wanted to be realistic-ish, but it cut all tethers. The film was without mooring
I just think there is only so much reality you can make in a comic book/superhero movie. This one is easier to nit pi compared to the first two. In TDK Batman falls from a what 20 story building? All the while grabbing Rachel and putting her facing him so he can take the blow from landing on a car then proceed to make a joke right after they shatter the car. But later in the film he crashes a motorcycle going 20 mph and Gordon has to come to the rescue because Batman is out. TDK had some unrealities on par with TDKR but it gets the pass due to the villain being more realistic and he didn't try to destroy the city like Bane/Talia/Ra's Al Guhl did. This was more of an action flick as well. You get a preview for the new Bourne movie before the film and you see Bourne bunny hop a dirt bike on to a ledge and slide I'd down a rail like he's on a skateboard. Action movies tend to have some pretty ridiculous parts in them. TDKR didn't change that.
quote:
I enjoyed it. It was good, but it wasn't great. And no offense to Tom Hardy, but Bane was no Joker. There was no scene like Joker sticking his head out the window of a car like a dog.
I agreed that he wasn't quite on the Jokers level. But he was still great to me. He had his moments. Like before he walks out to the football field and the kids singing and he just says to himself "What a lovely lovely voice." Showed he had some personality, not just a brute.
quote:
The Avengers was a more successful comic book movie.
Awe man that's just upsetting. I think two years down the road after you would have had a few watches of them both, you might have a different opinion. Basing that solely on movies like Iron Man and Spiderman. They were considered fantastic upon release. But I'm sorry after a few watches they don't hold up. The first 45 minutes of Iron Man are some of the best scenes in any comic book movie. But after he busts out of prison the movie falls off drastically.
This post was edited on 7/25/12 at 11:11 am
Posted on 7/25/12 at 11:03 am to Scoob
Whoa man thats terrible. Sorry about that.
Posted on 7/25/12 at 11:05 am to iwyLSUiwy
I still love Iron Man and the first two Spider-Mans. And it's not really nit picky, it's more of an overall vibe. It just didn't feel right. I was willing to go along with stuff in the first two, particularly the Dark Knight, but I wasn't as willing in this one. I don't know precisely why. It just stuck in my craw.
And I did like Bane as a villain. It's just that the Joker was transcendent. Anyone suffers in comparison.
And I did like Bane as a villain. It's just that the Joker was transcendent. Anyone suffers in comparison.
Posted on 7/25/12 at 11:12 am to Baloo
quote:
The previous Batman films have been as close to "this is what would happen if Batman was real" as you could get. They didn't feel entirely like comic books, as they were partially grounded in reality. "Rises" was not grounded in this reality at all. It goes whole hog into the comic book universe and loses it's tether to the the real world.
Agreed completely on that. That's what I was saying halfway back in the thread as well (and others as well)...it just didn't feel like the same universe that Nolan created so well in the first two. This one seemed much more "fake" (relatively speaking) than the others, and a lot of the times it was scenes based on good ideas, but not executed very well.
Posted on 7/25/12 at 11:17 am to Baloo
I hear ya.
I just thought it was almost a perfect sequel to Batman Begins. The Dark Knight could be a stand alone movie. If that film wasn't in the trilogy, you would have never of know it was there (not saying I wanted it to be missing), other than a slip of the business card to Batman at the end. If TDKR rises was the first movie you would have watched in the trilogy, you would have been lost or wouldn't really get the overall message of the movie. If the only movie you watch in the trilogy is The Dark Knight, you're all good. I just like how it tied back in to Batman Begins.
I just thought it was almost a perfect sequel to Batman Begins. The Dark Knight could be a stand alone movie. If that film wasn't in the trilogy, you would have never of know it was there (not saying I wanted it to be missing), other than a slip of the business card to Batman at the end. If TDKR rises was the first movie you would have watched in the trilogy, you would have been lost or wouldn't really get the overall message of the movie. If the only movie you watch in the trilogy is The Dark Knight, you're all good. I just like how it tied back in to Batman Begins.
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