re: OFFICIAL - The Dark Knight Rises Discussion Thread - *SPOILERS*

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and, that is my fault as a viewer?

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It's your fault that you're complaining about something that %95 of people don't care about

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as theunknownknight points out

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That's your first mistake right there.

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then introduce her in TDK. literally, a 20 second scene where she throws money and support behind Wayne's energy initiative, and have her sitting on the board in the film.

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And couldn't that give people even more reason to believe that she was going to be a bad guy in the next movie?

Not to mention Blake shows an innate ability for detective work

I'm out

After further thought i think i can express my specific complaint about TDKR with a good example from the movie. Nolan fell into the trap of telling and not showing. This isn't always bad but when what we see and what we hear contradict, that contradiction should be used to create tension in the story.

My example: we are TOLD Wayne trusts Tate but we are never SHOWN anything proving that. What we are SHOWN is a reclusive Wayne who has seemingly lost faith in humanity. What we are shown is a man who doesn't even trust his own maids. What we are SHOWN is a Wayne who has even cut himself off from his most trusted friend, Alfred. We are SHOWN a man living in darkness, a depressed, isolated, injured old man.

But we are TOLD he trusts Tate and I am supposed to buy that? Nolan didn't SHOW us any growth in their relationship to prove this. To put it in TD vernacular, he didn't SHOW us shite about their previous trust. In storytelling you SHOW the points pivotal to the plot so the audience can believe the journey and keep them in the movie. Hell, Nolan preached this very concept in Inception. The dream must be believable or they will reject it.

The Avengers, for instance, when viewed as a character, were shown growing in trust. In fact the whole movie formed its basis on the arc of that trust.

Nolan showed us Batman's growth in BB, we understood it, it was real to us. It kept us dreaming. That was why it was so great.

In TDK, he SHOWED us the Joker. Things started heading south when he told us about Harvey Dent, but didn't really show us enough to convince us of the character (like Batman and the Joker). That is why the third act failed, we weren't sold on him like the Joker.

This pattern grew even worse in TDKR. It was bogged down in exposition, telling us the ground work for the details the plot HINGED on.

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But we are TOLD he trusts Tate and I am supposed to buy that? Nolan didn't SHOW us any growth in their relationship to prove this. To put it in TD vernacular, he didn't SHOW us shite about their previous trust. In storytelling you SHOW the points pivotal to the plot so the audience can believe the journey and keep them in the movie

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yah, but its in the comic books brah!

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Just because we spend time discussing perceived weakspots doesn't mean we take it personal.

And most on here have agreed that this film has some holes.

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i think he was referring to the defenders. And, I also think that most people who have complained about some part of the movie have already stated that it was an extremely good movie.

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you sound like you work for Warner Bros. Sorry, WB exec's,

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I was thinking you sounded like Columbia middle mgmt.

But we don't really need to see that trust because of the events of the plot. Bruce Wayne has no choice but to trust Miranda Tate with the well-being of his company. You can call that a cop out but it's a legitimate point in the story. The only other person who has a legitimate shot at grabbing hold of the reins of Wayne Enterprises is Dagget, a man who is obviously in league with the main villain of the film. Miranda even comes out and says that Bruce has no choice but to trust her. He's backed into a corner so what else can he do? Not to mention we are shown Fox, a man who Bruce Wayne trusts with his life, pushing him to trust Tate.

I agree that their relationship wasn't fully developed but I am able to forgive that fact because their relationship really wasn't an essential plot of the film. None of his relationships with his female love interests were essential at all and so their lack of development didn't bother me at all.