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Message
re: OFFICIAL - The Dark Knight Rises Discussion Thread - *SPOILERS*
Posted on 7/22/12 at 12:06 am to Polar Bear
Posted on 7/22/12 at 12:06 am to Polar Bear
quote:
- The cops were let out of the sewers the night before the raid. We see them leaving the sewers at night, walking around Batman and Blake, and the next time we see them is the following morning, at daybreak. They had ~12 hours to go home, sleep, shave, shower, eat, whatever, before the raid on City Hall.
seems to be one of my objections you picked up here - but you missed the gist of it IMO.
when coming out of the tunnel they looked and behaved pretty strangely for hundreds of men who had been living in their own filth for weeks. what they looked like on the following morning wasn't a point that was raised
it is still really weird to me their non-reaction to batman on the way out of the tunnel - if they still think he's a bad guy they should react with some hostility. if they have been convinced of his goodness (and enormous personal self-sacrifice) then they should have probably flocked around him in awe or otherwise been very positively affected by his presence
these aren't movie killing flaws - just strange things if you think too hard about them
1
Posted on 7/22/12 at 12:08 am to Siderophore
quote:
By looking for fraud, I mean not allowing any of the exchanges go through.
Who would be responsible for this?
Posted on 7/22/12 at 12:10 am to Polar Bear
I found this on another forum and it's a really interesting take on Bane as a character:
quote:
Bane didn't join the league 'out of' love for Talia. He was in prison and wanted to fight for and protect an innocent helpless young girl, willing to sacrifice himself for her. This was meant to demonstrate his desire to protect and fight for the innocent, and the league "offered" him a path (well, Talia did) the same way they did to Bruce, making Bane an ultimate foil of Bruce's character. Everything Bane did in the film he felt he was doing for the betterment of humanity and the world out of a noble love for humanity. His humanity is reinforced throughout the film, such as when he enjoys the boy's beautiful voice.
Bane's a full formed human being, which gives the extremity of his actions a disturbing layer few villains ever seem to possess. He hugely feels like a person that could actually exist in terrifying fashion, something you can't say about The Joker.
This post was edited on 7/22/12 at 12:11 am
Posted on 7/22/12 at 12:12 am to molsusports
quote:
it is still really weird to me their non-reaction to batman on the way out of the tunnel - if they still think he's a bad guy they should react with some hostility. if they have been convinced of his goodness (and enormous personal self-sacrifice) then they should have probably flocked around him in awe or otherwise been very positively affected by his presence
Bane read Gordon's speech to the entire world, so I'm sure they found out one way or another during the 3 month period.
Regardless, their indifference was fitting - they were physically drained, and likely just wanted to go home.
Posted on 7/22/12 at 12:16 am to Polar Bear
quote:
Regardless, their indifference was fitting
coal miners coming out of a coal mine without emotion? i disagree with that premise - for the first time in weeks they were going to be out of their own filth and in the light of day
Posted on 7/22/12 at 12:18 am to Polar Bear
SEC?
Posted on 7/22/12 at 12:28 am to Siderophore
quote:
I mean not allowing any of the exchanges go through. I mean they KNEW people broke in, doing NOTHING but tampering with the computer
quote:
SEC?
Would they have actually had time to prevent any of the exchanges from going through? In the time of the movie, the actual transaction process didn't seem to take them longer than 10-15 minutes. Would a federal bureau be able to respond quickly enough?
This post was edited on 7/22/12 at 12:29 am
Posted on 7/22/12 at 12:31 am to Polar Bear
Well no, but you would think protocols are in place for real life cases like this.
At least explain how they got around being cut off.
At least explain how they got around being cut off.
Posted on 7/22/12 at 12:32 am to Siderophore
Saw the movie again today and not catching up on the last ten pages to see if these questions were answered, but I remember seeing these earlier in the thread multiple times.
First, the cops not reacting to seeing Batman or thinking he's a bad guy: Blake was passing notes to his partner underground through the 5 month period where Bane/Talia has control of the city. There were fairly up to date on what was going on.
Second, if they truly wanted to blow up Gotham, why wait 5 months? If you go back a listen to Bane's speech to Bruce in the prison, he explains that in order for people to experience true despair, they first must have some hope and have it taken away. For Gotham, the hope was that for five months, someone could come and save them.
They show Batman in the Bat seconds before it explodes: This was the main thing I watched for. So Batman causes the explosion as he flies out of the city, and there's a shot where he's still in the Bat and you can see buildings in the background, he's obviously still in the Bat. This is shown before he passes the bridge Blake and the kids are on. He's not shown again until a little over :10 seconds left, but it's a straight shot and you basically only see his face and his seat behind his head. Obviously, Nolan wanted people to believe he was still in the Bat, but he easily could've ejected at pretty much any point beyond the bridge and it not be noticed.
As for the topic that kicked off this thread of the ending being Alred dreaming: I'm 110% sure that's not the case. First of all, Alfred never references a dream, he says he had a "fantasy" of seeing Bruce there with a wife and some kids and he'd know he had made it. I'll also re-iterate if Alfred was dreaming, Nolan wouldn't have taken the time to show Gordon seeing the signal fixed and reacting ecstatically, Fox hearing the autopilot was fixed and his subtle reaction, and also pointing out that Bruce's mother's pearls were missing after the will reading. Obviously, Bruce took those with them.
And would anyone have thought Alfred was dreaming if (a) they hadn't seen Inception and (b) Nolan didn't direct both? No.
First, the cops not reacting to seeing Batman or thinking he's a bad guy: Blake was passing notes to his partner underground through the 5 month period where Bane/Talia has control of the city. There were fairly up to date on what was going on.
Second, if they truly wanted to blow up Gotham, why wait 5 months? If you go back a listen to Bane's speech to Bruce in the prison, he explains that in order for people to experience true despair, they first must have some hope and have it taken away. For Gotham, the hope was that for five months, someone could come and save them.
They show Batman in the Bat seconds before it explodes: This was the main thing I watched for. So Batman causes the explosion as he flies out of the city, and there's a shot where he's still in the Bat and you can see buildings in the background, he's obviously still in the Bat. This is shown before he passes the bridge Blake and the kids are on. He's not shown again until a little over :10 seconds left, but it's a straight shot and you basically only see his face and his seat behind his head. Obviously, Nolan wanted people to believe he was still in the Bat, but he easily could've ejected at pretty much any point beyond the bridge and it not be noticed.
As for the topic that kicked off this thread of the ending being Alred dreaming: I'm 110% sure that's not the case. First of all, Alfred never references a dream, he says he had a "fantasy" of seeing Bruce there with a wife and some kids and he'd know he had made it. I'll also re-iterate if Alfred was dreaming, Nolan wouldn't have taken the time to show Gordon seeing the signal fixed and reacting ecstatically, Fox hearing the autopilot was fixed and his subtle reaction, and also pointing out that Bruce's mother's pearls were missing after the will reading. Obviously, Bruce took those with them.
And would anyone have thought Alfred was dreaming if (a) they hadn't seen Inception and (b) Nolan didn't direct both? No.
This post was edited on 7/22/12 at 12:43 am
Posted on 7/22/12 at 12:33 am to Siderophore
SIAP
It's fun to play along and just watch the movie, not analyze it so much. That's why we go to the movies.
Not trying to be a jerk or anything, please don't take it that way.
It's fun to play along and just watch the movie, not analyze it so much. That's why we go to the movies.
Not trying to be a jerk or anything, please don't take it that way.
Posted on 7/22/12 at 12:33 am to Siderophore
quote:
They also had a bazillion witnesses to them putting a fake paper into the fingerprint reader.
I don't know how any of the people on their hands and knees knew what bane was doing, and they probably too scared shitless to care.
quote:
And granted, shite hit the fan prob messing with the investigation, but Wayne was still completely broke after 6 months.
No one is worried about Bruce's billions while Gotham is simultaneously under martial law and a nuclear threat
Posted on 7/22/12 at 12:34 am to Siderophore
how'd Gordon know that it was Bane down in the sewers after their first encounter? is Bane just some well known terrorist? I don't remember anyone saying who he was.
Posted on 7/22/12 at 12:36 am to Polar Bear
quote:
- Someone asked earlier why Bain even devised the plane heist if they already had Dr. Pavel in custody. The heist wasn't to obtain Pavel, it was to extract what they could from the CIA operative, and then kill him and the other members. On the plane, Bane mentions how Dr. Pavel chose the CIA's offer over theirs, and then said, "so we had to find out what he told you" (regarding the League's plan). It was also an opportunity to "kill" Dr. Pavel so that no one would come searching for him.
The problem is no one could UNDERSTAND Bane's voice (at that point) in the first viewing. The fact people are having to watch it multiple times to catch what is going on doesn't signify directing brilliance, it signifies poor sound editing coupled with characters having unclear motivations mixed in a convoluted plot.
quote:
- At the end of the film, Talia did in fact try to detonate the bomb. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned something along the lines of, "I hate how they never push the button." Well, she did, but Gordon had placed the metal device on the bomb before Talia hit the button, thus disabling remote detonation.
That's NOT what was being said in this thread. What was said was Talia's ridiculous monologue lasted forever before she actually pushed the button. It reminded them of the tired cliche' where the villain talks and talks until the hero finds a way to win...see Austin Powers, The Incredibles
Posted on 7/22/12 at 12:37 am to la_birdman
quote:
You talking about the part right at the end, just before they show the countdown clock on the bomb?
They just show his face, mainly his eyes, scanning back and forth while he's flying. That part?
It is the last shot of the bat and while the outside is not explicitly shown you the light reflecting from the water
I was watching this scene closely since it was my second time
Posted on 7/22/12 at 12:39 am to CGB Spender
quote:
It is the last shot of the bat and while the outside is not explicitly shown you the light reflecting from the water
I was watching this scene closely since it was my second time
Ok, I know the part. I'll have to watch for that next time I see it.
Posted on 7/22/12 at 12:40 am to Siderophore
quote:
The biggest is expecting to believe that they wouldn't be LOOKING for fraud in the stock market exchange after the break in.
Uh...YEAH. Look what happened after 9/11.
The actual stock exchange is attacked by a mob with automatic weapons, people are held hostage, and a CRAZY trade is made where Wayne loses ALL his money and no one questions it??? SERIOUSLY?
Here's a better idea. You have the prints and the tech...so just send ONE guy in there and make the trade. It is under the radar and more believable.
Posted on 7/22/12 at 12:41 am to molsusports
quote:
coal miners coming out of a coal mine without emotion? i disagree with that premise - for the first time in weeks they were going to be out of their own filth and in the light of day
And thanks to Blake's correspondence they all knew it was a matter of hours before they were all going to be blown to hell anyway.
I don't think I'd be joyful
Posted on 7/22/12 at 12:41 am to theunknownknight
quote:
The problem is no one could UNDERSTAND Bane's voice (at that point) in the first viewing.
I could.
No movie is a perfect movie. You want to watch something "real," watch the local news.
Like I said, this is why people go to movies. To escape reality for an hour or two. Play along.
Posted on 7/22/12 at 12:43 am to la_birdman
I was disappointed because he's clearly in the bat but the light got my attention. It's very subtle but clear
Posted on 7/22/12 at 12:44 am to CGB Spender
quote:Saw it again today as well watchign specifically for that scene, and though I didn't think of the light being light reflected underwater, it did look weird and I think you're exactly right.
It is the last shot of the bat and while the outside is not explicitly shown you the light reflecting from the water
I was watching this scene closely since it was my second time
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