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re: Obtuse Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice TD review thread (SPOILERS p5+)
Posted on 4/18/16 at 10:23 am to Fewer Kilometers
Posted on 4/18/16 at 10:23 am to Fewer Kilometers
quote:
Thanks for deciding this for us.
You're welcome, but don't thank me. Thank hundreds of years of structured storytelling and narrative, thank critical thinking, thank understanding the intricacies of the human condition and how we relate to history, to the written word, etc. Thank the last 100+ years of film as we get a better sense of what makes a film great, what qualities are important to film, etc.
And thank the people who can understand it deeply enough to communicate it to those who can't. The philosophers and thinkers, the writers, the creatives and artists, and yes sometimes the critics. Thank them, not me.
This post was edited on 4/18/16 at 10:24 am
1
Posted on 4/18/16 at 10:36 am to PsychTiger
Batmans issue was never superman, it was an internal one. But at the moment of truth, his darkest moment, he realized that he was becoming a villain, and the good in him won.
Posted on 4/18/16 at 10:36 am to Freauxzen
This is the problem: The people who detest this film (and I can understand if you didn't like it) absolutely refuse to let up on anyone who did. I found the film flawed but enjoyable. So did some of these critics: Are they unable to comprehend just how bad it was, or do people on a message board just understand how storytelling works better than they do? Is anyone allowed to enjoy any part of this film?
Richard Roeper, Chicago Sun-Times:
“When it sings, ‘Dawn of Justice’ is a wonder. When it drags, it still looks good and offers hints of a better scene just around the corner.”
Peter Travers, Rolling Stone:
“Better than ‘Man of Steel’ but below the high bar set by Nolan’s ‘Dark Knight,’ ‘Dawn of Justice’ is still a colossus, the stuff that DC Comics dreams are made of for that kid in all of us who yearns to see Batman and Superman suit up and go in for the kill. Suck on that, Marvel. After this, can ‘Justice League v The Avengers’ be far behind?
Kenneth Turan, Los Angeles Times:
“While the Marvel universe, now owned by Disney, is glib and sunny, it’s a nice echo of Warner’s past as a home to gangsters and gritty melodramas to find its DC world operating very much on the dark end of the street.”
Tony Hicks, San Jose Mercury News:
“Batman needs a vacation. Superman needs some seasoning. Lex Luthor needs less caffeine. Wonder Woman needs more screen time (and she’s going to get it soon). Those issues aside, Zack Snyder managed to squeeze a lot into ‘Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice.’ Maybe a bit too much. He doesn’t always succeed in pulling all the competing elements together, but it’s undeniably thrilling to see the most iconic comic book heroes of the 20th century battle it out amid a flurry of dazzling special effects and chest-thumping violence.”
Steven Rea, Philadelphia Inquirer:
“Snyder’s superpowered epic does have a sense of import and grandeur about it. This is, after all, the first time these icons of pop culture have squared off on the big screen (Affleck’s got the squarer jaw), and there’s a gravitas here that even the most stale of comic book tropes can’t diminish. Snyder, who directed ‘Man of Steel’ and the failed comic book adaptation ‘Watchmen,’ is nothing less than respectful. The effects aren’t bad, either.”
Do you thank these critics, or are they just incapable of your level of understanding?
Richard Roeper, Chicago Sun-Times:
“When it sings, ‘Dawn of Justice’ is a wonder. When it drags, it still looks good and offers hints of a better scene just around the corner.”
Peter Travers, Rolling Stone:
“Better than ‘Man of Steel’ but below the high bar set by Nolan’s ‘Dark Knight,’ ‘Dawn of Justice’ is still a colossus, the stuff that DC Comics dreams are made of for that kid in all of us who yearns to see Batman and Superman suit up and go in for the kill. Suck on that, Marvel. After this, can ‘Justice League v The Avengers’ be far behind?
Kenneth Turan, Los Angeles Times:
“While the Marvel universe, now owned by Disney, is glib and sunny, it’s a nice echo of Warner’s past as a home to gangsters and gritty melodramas to find its DC world operating very much on the dark end of the street.”
Tony Hicks, San Jose Mercury News:
“Batman needs a vacation. Superman needs some seasoning. Lex Luthor needs less caffeine. Wonder Woman needs more screen time (and she’s going to get it soon). Those issues aside, Zack Snyder managed to squeeze a lot into ‘Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice.’ Maybe a bit too much. He doesn’t always succeed in pulling all the competing elements together, but it’s undeniably thrilling to see the most iconic comic book heroes of the 20th century battle it out amid a flurry of dazzling special effects and chest-thumping violence.”
Steven Rea, Philadelphia Inquirer:
“Snyder’s superpowered epic does have a sense of import and grandeur about it. This is, after all, the first time these icons of pop culture have squared off on the big screen (Affleck’s got the squarer jaw), and there’s a gravitas here that even the most stale of comic book tropes can’t diminish. Snyder, who directed ‘Man of Steel’ and the failed comic book adaptation ‘Watchmen,’ is nothing less than respectful. The effects aren’t bad, either.”
Do you thank these critics, or are they just incapable of your level of understanding?
Posted on 4/18/16 at 10:43 am to BigAppleTiger
quote:Come on.
The people who detest this film (and I can understand if you didn't like it) absolutely refuse to let up on anyone who did.
The reverse is also true and you completely fail to acknowledge it. People have been attacked and down right insulted by alters. Someone created an alter for the sole purpose of attacking people who like Marvel movies and hated BvS. Why do you care anyway? Enjoy the movie. Don't concern yourself with trolls. They exist on both sides.quote:Of course. Some things weigh more than other things with different people. I enjoyed some things in the movie as well and I was attacked for criticizing some aspects of it. Don't take this stuff so personal. Unless obviously a poster takes it to that point, which has only happened on one side of this argument.
Is anyone allowed to enjoy any part of this film?
This post was edited on 4/18/16 at 10:48 am
Posted on 4/18/16 at 10:43 am to BigAppleTiger
quote:
The people who detest this film (and I can understand if you didn't like it) absolutely refuse to let up on anyone who did.
In that same light, Fewer Kilometers has been ripping on everyone who has an issue with this film since the beginning of this thread. I think we can all reasonably say that a good number more than half of people found this film lacking, so I would say that the person constantly championing the minority opinion is the one that is the issue.
Posted on 4/18/16 at 10:43 am to BigAppleTiger
Watched this over the weekend finally. It was OK, but several parts didn't make sense.
SPOILERS
1) WTF was with the flashbacks? Batman and some bat army attacking people, and some dude jumps out of the computer scream to talk to him and say he's too soon? My wife looked at me and asked, "what's going on", and i told her i had no clue. I still don't understand it.
2) The movie should have definitely been made into 2 movies. Too many story lines and characters that were half asserdly introduced. I get we'll get a sequal to explain wonder woman and her crew. The lasso was pretty freaking lame.
3) Doomsday, the character that finally kills superman, is introduced and killed within 20 minutes? Come on. I would have expected something different.
4) Gene Hackman's Lex Luthor was way way better than Jesse Eisenberg's Lex. Why was he bent on Superman's destruction? What is teh back story? Does he want more wealth and power, or just wants to see good things die?
5) Special forces involvement in Africa? Where did that plot line end up? They introduced it then all of a sudden killed it off.
SPOILERS
1) WTF was with the flashbacks? Batman and some bat army attacking people, and some dude jumps out of the computer scream to talk to him and say he's too soon? My wife looked at me and asked, "what's going on", and i told her i had no clue. I still don't understand it.
2) The movie should have definitely been made into 2 movies. Too many story lines and characters that were half asserdly introduced. I get we'll get a sequal to explain wonder woman and her crew. The lasso was pretty freaking lame.
3) Doomsday, the character that finally kills superman, is introduced and killed within 20 minutes? Come on. I would have expected something different.
4) Gene Hackman's Lex Luthor was way way better than Jesse Eisenberg's Lex. Why was he bent on Superman's destruction? What is teh back story? Does he want more wealth and power, or just wants to see good things die?
5) Special forces involvement in Africa? Where did that plot line end up? They introduced it then all of a sudden killed it off.
Posted on 4/18/16 at 10:58 am to abellsujr
quote:
The people who detest this film (and I can understand if you didn't like it) absolutely refuse to let up on anyone who did.
Come on. The reverse is also true and you completely fail to acknowledge it.
Holy crap, it's like you didn't even read the first sentence.
This post was edited on 4/18/16 at 11:00 am
Posted on 4/18/16 at 11:01 am to BigAppleTiger
quote:
Holy crap, it's like you didn't even read the first sentence.
Your first sentence is stupid.
Posted on 4/18/16 at 11:02 am to BugAC
quote:
1) WTF was with the flashbacks? Batman and some bat army attacking people, and some dude jumps out of the computer scream to talk to him and say he's too soon? My wife looked at me and asked, "what's going on", and i told her i had no clue. I still don't understand it.
It was batmans vision of what a future would look like if superman decided to rule the world
2) The movie should have definitely been made into 2 movies. Too many story lines and characters that were half asserdly introduced. I get we'll get a sequal to explain wonder woman and her crew. The lasso was pretty freaking lame.
Yeah, more movies needed, which is awesome
3) Doomsday, the character that finally kills superman, is introduced and killed within 20 minutes? Come on. I would have expected something different.
I was disappointed with the mutant creature looking like a lord of the rings creation
4) Gene Hackman's Lex Luthor was way way better than Jesse Eisenberg's Lex. Why was he bent on Superman's destruction? What is teh back story? Does he want more wealth and power, or just wants to see good things die?
Definitely a crazy character, he wants chaos and power
5) Special forces involvement in Africa? Where did that plot line end up? They introduced it then all of a sudden killed it off
It was lex's specisl forces and all part of lex's plan to turn batman and America against superman
.
Posted on 4/18/16 at 11:03 am to LNCHBOX
School bell rang... you've got recess to attend.
Posted on 4/18/16 at 11:06 am to BigAppleTiger
quote:Then why are you complaining about people replying to other people? The people who hate it will say so as will the people who enjoyed it. You can't complain about one and say the other is OK.
Holy crap, it's like you didn't even read the first sentence.
ETA: You're acknowledging that you understand why people hate it, but saying it's not OK for them to say so? Or why? It's not OK for them to reply with what they disagree with? It's not OK for them to reply to a response? You say "they won't let up". Honestly, I think it's just that you're thinking is too one sided on this. The "not letting up" on both sides.
This post was edited on 4/18/16 at 11:22 am
Posted on 4/18/16 at 11:09 am to BigAppleTiger
quote:
School bell rang... you've got recess to attend.
Did you bother reading my post explain why directly above it? I'm thinking you didn't.
Posted on 4/18/16 at 11:09 am to BigAppleTiger
quote:
This is the problem: The people who detest this film (and I can understand if you didn't like it) absolutely refuse to let up on anyone who did.
It works both ways. I think the people who dislike the film who don't let up, just wanted something better for Batman and Superman. There are also people who enjoyed the film who just refute any and all criticisms as well, hence the divisiveness.
quote:
Are they unable to comprehend just how bad it was, or do people on a message board just understand how storytelling works better than they do?
No, but they may forgive the film in places where others aren't. They might be reading something more positively than others. Art is a tricky subject.
quote:
Is anyone allowed to enjoy any part of this film?
Of course they are. As I've said before, if this is a board for only subjective reaction, this would get boring really. Fast.
quote:
Do you thank these critics, or are they just incapable of your level of understanding?
No need for that kind of comment.
#1 - I said "some critics."
#2 - Each critic is going to have their own focus, so again, they may forgive or forget or enjoy certain aspects more than others. And critics have the tough job of making sure they communicate something as complicated as "enjoyment," while rationalizing quality, so yeah they may have to bend sometimes. Again "some critics."
#3 - Pulling out singular quotes is the exact opposite of understanding exactly what they are saying, but let's pull apart one of these quotes anyway, since you brought them up....
quote:
Batman needs a vacation. Superman needs some seasoning. Lex Luthor needs less caffeine. Wonder Woman needs more screen time (and she’s going to get it soon). Those issues aside,
Ok so most of the major characters have serious problems, yet....
quote:
Those issues aside,
They don't matter.
quote:
Zack Snyder managed to squeeze a lot into ‘Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice.’ Maybe a bit too much.
So the plot and narrative are "too much".....
quote:
He doesn’t always succeed in pulling all the competing elements together,
And Zack Snyder isn't "always" successful at pulling everything together...
quote:
but it’s undeniably thrilling to see the most iconic comic book heroes of the 20th century battle it out amid a flurry of dazzling special effects and chest-thumping violence.”
But here's my Blu-Ray Cover Quote material, and none of this matters because the two biggest superheroes punch each other!
I mean, really? This is the defense against saying the movie actually is good? This quote, which you pulled not me basically says that "This film has many flaws, the characters need some serious alterations, the plot has too much in it, but because Batman and Superman fight so Yeah!"
Does this make you think it's a "good" movie? The issue is, they may recommend it as something to experience, something to see (which is obviously how the movie slants above), but the review still does not really admit that the film is "good." That leads us to #4....
#4 - Some people are wrong. Everyone. Those same philosophers, writers, artists, can be wrong too. They can be too forgiving. Or just flat not know something they should. That's ok too, that's just part of the process. But since we have the ability to read and consume many different ideas, we can sort through them and find some sense of the truth as well.
I mean the big question is, Is there a difference between Casablance and Baby's Day Out? Do you want to say that there is no way Casablanca is a better film than Baby's Day Out? Or do you want to say that there are features, ideas, and strengths in a film like Casablanca that make it superior? There are many people out there that enjoy Casablanca..more than most movies. There are also people out there who most likely enjoy Baby's Day Out. But that's not the only way, and shouldn't be the only way, to measure whether something is good or not. Casablanca isn't a better film than Baby's Day Out because more people like it, that's just evidence.
And regardless, liking Casablanca doesn't make it a good movie, and liking Baby's Day Out doesn't make it a good movie. And not liking either film doesn't automatically make them bad. Why they are bad counts. Why they are good counts as well.
Posted on 4/18/16 at 11:13 am to Freauxzen
quote:
It works both ways. I think the people who dislike the film who don't let up, just wanted something better for Batman and Superman. There are also people who enjoyed the film who just refute any and all criticisms as well, hence the divisiveness.
I liked it. I was entertained and it was worth what I paid to watch it. It wasn't the best movie I've ever seen, and I certainly hoped for better, but there are far worse movies I've spent money to see.
Posted on 4/18/16 at 11:17 am to DisplacedBuckeye
Who in here is refuting any and all criticisms?
Posted on 4/18/16 at 11:17 am to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
I liked it. I was entertained and it was worth what I paid to watch it. It wasn't the best movie I've ever seen, and I certainly hoped for better, but there are far worse movies I've spent money to see.
And there's nothing wrong with this. And yeah, I've paid to see worse films and enjoyed worse films. Nothing wrong with that.
Posted on 4/18/16 at 11:38 am to Freauxzen
It's like, if you can't stand criticism, go somewhere with more one sided views. I believe the DCEU has a subreddit that is basically 90% pro BvS. It's the perfect place for those people. Otherwise, deal with it.
Posted on 4/18/16 at 11:39 am to abellsujr
quote:
The currently-in-theaters runtime for Zack Snyder’s Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice stands at two hours and 31 minutes, and an extended “Ultimate Cut” will roll for an additional 30 R-rated minutes when it’s released on DVD/Blu-ray later this year, but both runtimes pale in comparison to the original cut. It’s an editor’s job to trim available footage down so that a more coherent and concise movie can be found, but in the case of Batman v Superman, the original cut was nearly four hours long. That’s a lot of trimming.
In an interview with Pro Video Coalition, Batman v Superman editor David Brenner talked at length about his work on films of all sizes. Regarding the WB/DC behemoth, Brenner revealed that the much longer original version had to be cut down substantially, but also mentioned that the process really wasn’t very different from his work on films with less footage and smaller budgets:
As always there was too much originally shot, so there were a lot of choices to make to get the film to play. Sometimes things don’t work out as well as they might have on the page. Sometimes they didn’t on the page either! So no matter what the budget or scale, as the editor, you’re just trying to get the story and characters to work.
LINK
Posted on 4/18/16 at 11:48 am to LNCHBOX
quote:
In that same light, Fewer Kilometers has been ripping on everyone who has an issue with this film since the beginning of this thread. I think we can all reasonably say that a good number more than half of people found this film lacking, so I would say that the person constantly championing the minority opinion is the one that is the issue.
LOL... I've been ripping on everyone?
Posted on 4/18/16 at 11:52 am to abellsujr
quote:
deal with it.
You keep saying this, but you can't seem to deal with it. Now you've freaked out in multiple threads over people enjoying this movie. You should've dealt with it a week ago.
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