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re: Obtuse Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice TD review thread (SPOILERS p5+)
Posted on 4/3/16 at 8:49 pm to OMLandshark
Posted on 4/3/16 at 8:49 pm to OMLandshark
Darkseid wipes his arse with Thanos.
The CGI of Doomsday was like the '96 version of Jabba.
Turrible.
I fully expected them to jump straight to DS next time. I hope not. Save him for someone to reboot Super Friends i mean Justice League when I'm 70...after Snyder hangs it up, at least.
The CGI of Doomsday was like the '96 version of Jabba.
Turrible.
I fully expected them to jump straight to DS next time. I hope not. Save him for someone to reboot Super Friends i mean Justice League when I'm 70...after Snyder hangs it up, at least.
This post was edited on 4/3/16 at 8:52 pm
1
Posted on 4/4/16 at 8:46 am to 19
I’m sure everyone has been waiting on pins and needles for my review of the movie (sarcasm) but since I made a big deal of bitching about what I had read about the movie prior to seeing it, I felt I needed to come back and actually review it after seeing it on Sunday. It’ll be long… REALLY LONG. In fact, I'm gonna break it up into sections. 
First…saw it with my wife, 13 year old and 8 year old sons on Sunday in Lafayette at 1PM. We were 4 of a total of less than 25 people in a theater that held 350+. This was the theater located next door to the giant retail hub with the brand new COSTCO, etc…we were not in the boonies.
The Good:
- Affleck as Batman. While I have been STRONGLY against starting this universe off with an older Batman and still am, Affleck was the best Wayne/Batman yet as he’s the first actor that literally fills the shoes the right way. 10 years younger and WB would be on to something…but he was very solid.
- I’ve advocated an opening sequence montage as Batman’s backstory for years (sort of like what Marvel had done for Incredible Hulk with Ed Norton) so that was a plus. Everyone knows Batman’s backstory…no reason to ever spend an hour on his origin unless you’re planning on altering it so much that you’d need to, and if you’re planning on doing that you shouldn’t be working on the project on the first place.
- Bruce Wayne rushing to Metropolis to attempt to rescue employees from his building as Superman and Zod lay waste to the city. Yes…the trailer had given this away, but that was pure Batman level behavior…and I enjoyed that.
- Batman, for the first time on film, moved like you imagine Batman moving in the comics. It was a great mix of real world and comic book superhuman that gave the impression that Bats could actually hold his own in a world with metahumans.
- Dug Batman’s costume…Synder’s color removal policy may make Superman look like dogs shite, but it’s a perfect look for Batman.
- Wonder Woman…though her scenes were completely unnecessary to the movie. I had been worried about her casting, but she looked great.
Next up...The Indifferent.
First…saw it with my wife, 13 year old and 8 year old sons on Sunday in Lafayette at 1PM. We were 4 of a total of less than 25 people in a theater that held 350+. This was the theater located next door to the giant retail hub with the brand new COSTCO, etc…we were not in the boonies.
The Good:
- Affleck as Batman. While I have been STRONGLY against starting this universe off with an older Batman and still am, Affleck was the best Wayne/Batman yet as he’s the first actor that literally fills the shoes the right way. 10 years younger and WB would be on to something…but he was very solid.
- I’ve advocated an opening sequence montage as Batman’s backstory for years (sort of like what Marvel had done for Incredible Hulk with Ed Norton) so that was a plus. Everyone knows Batman’s backstory…no reason to ever spend an hour on his origin unless you’re planning on altering it so much that you’d need to, and if you’re planning on doing that you shouldn’t be working on the project on the first place.
- Bruce Wayne rushing to Metropolis to attempt to rescue employees from his building as Superman and Zod lay waste to the city. Yes…the trailer had given this away, but that was pure Batman level behavior…and I enjoyed that.
- Batman, for the first time on film, moved like you imagine Batman moving in the comics. It was a great mix of real world and comic book superhuman that gave the impression that Bats could actually hold his own in a world with metahumans.
- Dug Batman’s costume…Synder’s color removal policy may make Superman look like dogs shite, but it’s a perfect look for Batman.
- Wonder Woman…though her scenes were completely unnecessary to the movie. I had been worried about her casting, but she looked great.
Next up...The Indifferent.
Posted on 4/4/16 at 8:47 am to GeauxTigerTM
Indifferent About:
- Alfred no longer being Bruce’s butler, but non being his tech support and gadget builder. I like the idea of Alfred being a help, but taking this part away from Batman lessons Batman’s abilities as far as I’m concerned. Even in the Nolanverse where you had Lucious Fox building gear you had Batman handling tech stuff on his own back home. I like Irons as Alfred but I could have done without this twist.
- The music. I was ready to hate it, and was not bothered as much as some when Wonder Woman’s theme kicked in. The only real time I thought the music was terrible was during the fight scene at the end with Bats and Supes that went melodramatic and as Superman was impaling Doomsday. It felt like soap opera level emotional manipulation and pulled me out of the scene.
- Batman killing fools. More so than anything else the thought of Batman killing guys was turning me off before I’d seen anything of this. Yes…he does it, but I found it far less egregious than it was made out to be. The only time it was almost completely unnecessary and I’d have liked them to have him pull back (especially if they were going to suggest that he had regained some of his humanity when he became Super Friends with Superman) was when he went to save “Martha” and he gunned down all the guys outside of the warehouse. As for killing the guy with the blowtorch, had no issue with that and liked the pull from the comics there with the line, “I believe you.”
Next up: The Bad
- Alfred no longer being Bruce’s butler, but non being his tech support and gadget builder. I like the idea of Alfred being a help, but taking this part away from Batman lessons Batman’s abilities as far as I’m concerned. Even in the Nolanverse where you had Lucious Fox building gear you had Batman handling tech stuff on his own back home. I like Irons as Alfred but I could have done without this twist.
- The music. I was ready to hate it, and was not bothered as much as some when Wonder Woman’s theme kicked in. The only real time I thought the music was terrible was during the fight scene at the end with Bats and Supes that went melodramatic and as Superman was impaling Doomsday. It felt like soap opera level emotional manipulation and pulled me out of the scene.
- Batman killing fools. More so than anything else the thought of Batman killing guys was turning me off before I’d seen anything of this. Yes…he does it, but I found it far less egregious than it was made out to be. The only time it was almost completely unnecessary and I’d have liked them to have him pull back (especially if they were going to suggest that he had regained some of his humanity when he became Super Friends with Superman) was when he went to save “Martha” and he gunned down all the guys outside of the warehouse. As for killing the guy with the blowtorch, had no issue with that and liked the pull from the comics there with the line, “I believe you.”
Next up: The Bad
Posted on 4/4/16 at 8:49 am to GeauxTigerTM
The Bad:
- Jesse Eisenberg as Lex Luthor. When this was announced I didn’t freak out because I sort of got the idea…a new way of being powerful. Problem is, he and WB went so far away from what makes Lex “LEX” that they created a new character that would be better named Jokdler or Ridlker. Go back and watch Jim Carey’s Ed Nigma while still at Wayne Enterprises from Batman Forever and see how much he looks and feels and acts like what we got from Eisenberg. What we got was Luthor in name only and the character is capable of being far more than what we got.
- Doomsday’s inclusion and design. Never been a fan of Doomsday, but in typical WB/DC fashion they decided that the source material is not good enough, so they redesigned him to look terrible for no reason at all. He ended up being a cross between a cave troll from LotR and Abomination from Incredible Hulk and then simply gave him powers that made no sense at all. His design was so bad that I glanced over at my 8 year old who was looking at the screen with his hands out and a face that was clearly indicating “What in the actual frick?!?” We asked him afterwards, and he was mad it didn’t look anything like the Doomsday he knew and then added, “Just because he’s not American doesn’t mean he can’t have on pants!” not even sure what that meant, but it was strange seeing as they went out of the way to have him pantless AND smooth like a Ken Doll where his junk should have been.
- Lois in every scene. I really like Amy Adams and have no issue with her as Lois, but as written and used she’s beyond worthless as anything but a plot device. Of all the things NOT to update in favor of new take on these characters, allowing Lois Lane to still function as the damsel in distress always is a huge oversight. She’s either in the WORST place or the BEST place depending upon how’s she’s needed for the story, with almost no rhyme of reason ever.
- The proximity of Gotham to Metropolis. This makes no sense at all given the story they were trying to tell. Batman had been doing his thing across the bay for TWO DECADES, but only seemed to show up on Clark’s radar 18 months after he got to Metropolis? Given Bats was a street level vigilante that would have maybe made sense if he was doing work in a city hundreds of miles away and was only a known commodity in his own city. But with him being across the bay, he’d have been as well known in Metropolis as Gotham… Again, this was done for no other reason than it would look cool to have Lex standing on his building in Metropolis and being able to see the Bat Signal across the bay. Like many parts of the movie, it appears to have been done to get a cool shot rather than to better serve the story at large.
Next Up: The Horrendous
- Jesse Eisenberg as Lex Luthor. When this was announced I didn’t freak out because I sort of got the idea…a new way of being powerful. Problem is, he and WB went so far away from what makes Lex “LEX” that they created a new character that would be better named Jokdler or Ridlker. Go back and watch Jim Carey’s Ed Nigma while still at Wayne Enterprises from Batman Forever and see how much he looks and feels and acts like what we got from Eisenberg. What we got was Luthor in name only and the character is capable of being far more than what we got.
- Doomsday’s inclusion and design. Never been a fan of Doomsday, but in typical WB/DC fashion they decided that the source material is not good enough, so they redesigned him to look terrible for no reason at all. He ended up being a cross between a cave troll from LotR and Abomination from Incredible Hulk and then simply gave him powers that made no sense at all. His design was so bad that I glanced over at my 8 year old who was looking at the screen with his hands out and a face that was clearly indicating “What in the actual frick?!?” We asked him afterwards, and he was mad it didn’t look anything like the Doomsday he knew and then added, “Just because he’s not American doesn’t mean he can’t have on pants!” not even sure what that meant, but it was strange seeing as they went out of the way to have him pantless AND smooth like a Ken Doll where his junk should have been.
- Lois in every scene. I really like Amy Adams and have no issue with her as Lois, but as written and used she’s beyond worthless as anything but a plot device. Of all the things NOT to update in favor of new take on these characters, allowing Lois Lane to still function as the damsel in distress always is a huge oversight. She’s either in the WORST place or the BEST place depending upon how’s she’s needed for the story, with almost no rhyme of reason ever.
- The proximity of Gotham to Metropolis. This makes no sense at all given the story they were trying to tell. Batman had been doing his thing across the bay for TWO DECADES, but only seemed to show up on Clark’s radar 18 months after he got to Metropolis? Given Bats was a street level vigilante that would have maybe made sense if he was doing work in a city hundreds of miles away and was only a known commodity in his own city. But with him being across the bay, he’d have been as well known in Metropolis as Gotham… Again, this was done for no other reason than it would look cool to have Lex standing on his building in Metropolis and being able to see the Bat Signal across the bay. Like many parts of the movie, it appears to have been done to get a cool shot rather than to better serve the story at large.
Next Up: The Horrendous
Posted on 4/4/16 at 8:50 am to GeauxTigerTM
The Horrendous:
- The entire story, in so far as there wasn’t one story but about five of them and none of them got serviced so you were left feeling like you had sat through a long movie and yet hadn’t seen any story fleshed out. You had the Batman pissed at Superman story. You had the Lex pissed at Superman story which was never really explained in this iteration. You had the bullshite with Congress. You had the force-fed Wonder Woman story and the inclusion of the JL files. Oh…and the dream sequences… Holy frick, Batman! I can’t even explain how bad that was here, so I’ll address it in the What I’d Have Done section.
- Martha, Martha, Martha! For everyone still trying to spin this as some dramatic scene and explain to all us dolts who weren’t moved by it, please give it a rest. This was just terrible. Why? Because, like nearly everything else, it was handled poorly and done solely as a plot device. Show of hands…who would say, “They’re going to kill (Insert first name here)!” as you’re getting killed and you’re talking about your own mom? Yeah…me either. Makes no sense at all. But since they had married themselves to the idea that this familial connection was what was going to snap Bats out of it to make me stop, why not simply have Superman say, “I’ve already lost my father…I can’t lose my mother tonight too.” Right? Yes…it’s still silly, but at least doesn’t rely on them having mother’s with the same name. The hook would be Bruce being haunted with the memory of the loss of his parents and seeing for the first time this alien with the same fears. It could have been done without being stupid… And even if this would have stopped him from killing him, it wouldn’t have made them friends. Bruce would have STILL been irrationally pissed about what he had been irrationally pissed off about…this wouldn’t have changed that. The friendship would have had to be earned over time…and given what happens minutes later, Snyder gives them no time for that.
Next Up: What I'd Have Done
- The entire story, in so far as there wasn’t one story but about five of them and none of them got serviced so you were left feeling like you had sat through a long movie and yet hadn’t seen any story fleshed out. You had the Batman pissed at Superman story. You had the Lex pissed at Superman story which was never really explained in this iteration. You had the bullshite with Congress. You had the force-fed Wonder Woman story and the inclusion of the JL files. Oh…and the dream sequences… Holy frick, Batman! I can’t even explain how bad that was here, so I’ll address it in the What I’d Have Done section.
- Martha, Martha, Martha! For everyone still trying to spin this as some dramatic scene and explain to all us dolts who weren’t moved by it, please give it a rest. This was just terrible. Why? Because, like nearly everything else, it was handled poorly and done solely as a plot device. Show of hands…who would say, “They’re going to kill (Insert first name here)!” as you’re getting killed and you’re talking about your own mom? Yeah…me either. Makes no sense at all. But since they had married themselves to the idea that this familial connection was what was going to snap Bats out of it to make me stop, why not simply have Superman say, “I’ve already lost my father…I can’t lose my mother tonight too.” Right? Yes…it’s still silly, but at least doesn’t rely on them having mother’s with the same name. The hook would be Bruce being haunted with the memory of the loss of his parents and seeing for the first time this alien with the same fears. It could have been done without being stupid… And even if this would have stopped him from killing him, it wouldn’t have made them friends. Bruce would have STILL been irrationally pissed about what he had been irrationally pissed off about…this wouldn’t have changed that. The friendship would have had to be earned over time…and given what happens minutes later, Snyder gives them no time for that.
Next Up: What I'd Have Done
Posted on 4/4/16 at 8:51 am to GeauxTigerTM
What I’d Have Done:
- Make one coherent movie. If the studio wanted to have this be a Batman v Superman movie, then it should have been that…and JUST that. We could have had the movie swing back and forth between Bruce’s world and Clark’s. Bruce digging into who Superman is, etc and Clark doing the same with Batman. We could have seen the relationship with Bruce and Alfred, and you could have explored what Superman’s been up to more fully in the past 18 months. In my version, the world would have gotten past his involvement and seen him for the hero he was and the good deeds he’d done for humanity since then…which is what would have made Bruce’s take so off kilter. When Alfred tell him, “He’s not our enemy” he’d have been speaking for nearly everyone…instead Bruce is simply one of MANY MANY people who hate Superman, which only serves to make Batman look reasonable in this world.
I’d have included Luthor, and could have used him as the instigator. He’d have fit the mold better. He’d hate superman because Luthro feels he’s the best that humanity has to offer and is offended by the fact that Superman exists. Essentially the motivations you see from All-Star Superman. He and Wayne would have open concerns about Superman as business leaders and would indicate to Wayne that he’s been digging. Bats would break in to steal this info which he would get, but he’d also get info on the other metas which Luthor has also found. I’d have used Bruce sitting at the computer in the Bat Cave opening the meta files as my after credits scene. Luthor could still kidnap Clark’s mom and you could even have them pull together at the end to save her if you want that to be the thing that snaps Bats out. They save Mrs. Kent, come to an uneasy truce, can’t pin any of it on Luthor (so he’s still in play) and we’ve not got a universe kicked off with our two bigs who are now essentially on the same side with caveats, we know the other metas exist and we can move from there.
- The above would have removed the need for shitty unexplained premonitions of Darkseid or the entire Injustice storyline. You want to get to Darkseid? Cool…but it takes time. You want to get to Doomsday and the death of superman where the world would mourn? Fine…maybe start out by actually having the world like him a bit first? You want to get to Injustice? Can we please see a happy, joyful helpful and not in a “I guess I HAVE TO do it sort of way” Superman BEFORE we’re forced to endure what can only be an even ANGRIER Superman?!?
Ok...done!
- Make one coherent movie. If the studio wanted to have this be a Batman v Superman movie, then it should have been that…and JUST that. We could have had the movie swing back and forth between Bruce’s world and Clark’s. Bruce digging into who Superman is, etc and Clark doing the same with Batman. We could have seen the relationship with Bruce and Alfred, and you could have explored what Superman’s been up to more fully in the past 18 months. In my version, the world would have gotten past his involvement and seen him for the hero he was and the good deeds he’d done for humanity since then…which is what would have made Bruce’s take so off kilter. When Alfred tell him, “He’s not our enemy” he’d have been speaking for nearly everyone…instead Bruce is simply one of MANY MANY people who hate Superman, which only serves to make Batman look reasonable in this world.
I’d have included Luthor, and could have used him as the instigator. He’d have fit the mold better. He’d hate superman because Luthro feels he’s the best that humanity has to offer and is offended by the fact that Superman exists. Essentially the motivations you see from All-Star Superman. He and Wayne would have open concerns about Superman as business leaders and would indicate to Wayne that he’s been digging. Bats would break in to steal this info which he would get, but he’d also get info on the other metas which Luthor has also found. I’d have used Bruce sitting at the computer in the Bat Cave opening the meta files as my after credits scene. Luthor could still kidnap Clark’s mom and you could even have them pull together at the end to save her if you want that to be the thing that snaps Bats out. They save Mrs. Kent, come to an uneasy truce, can’t pin any of it on Luthor (so he’s still in play) and we’ve not got a universe kicked off with our two bigs who are now essentially on the same side with caveats, we know the other metas exist and we can move from there.
- The above would have removed the need for shitty unexplained premonitions of Darkseid or the entire Injustice storyline. You want to get to Darkseid? Cool…but it takes time. You want to get to Doomsday and the death of superman where the world would mourn? Fine…maybe start out by actually having the world like him a bit first? You want to get to Injustice? Can we please see a happy, joyful helpful and not in a “I guess I HAVE TO do it sort of way” Superman BEFORE we’re forced to endure what can only be an even ANGRIER Superman?!?
Ok...done!
Posted on 4/4/16 at 9:10 am to GeauxTigerTM
All that and no star rating? Or at least a "I didn't think it was THAT bad!"
Give the people what they want!
I have a ton of thoughts on this. The real Luthor born from the BvS fight. Gone with a completely different villain.
The more I think about this, are they really trying to dig into the "Elseworlds" or multi-reality existence in DC? I'm wondering if this was the forced need to show SO much with so little explanation.
Give the people what they want!
quote:
What I’d Have Done:
I have a ton of thoughts on this. The real Luthor born from the BvS fight. Gone with a completely different villain.
quote:
- The above would have removed the need for shitty unexplained premonitions of Darkseid or the entire Injustice storyline. You want to get to Darkseid? Cool…but it takes time. You want to get to Doomsday and the death of superman where the world would mourn? Fine…maybe start out by actually having the world like him a bit first? You want to get to Injustice? Can we please see a happy, joyful helpful and not in a “I guess I HAVE TO do it sort of way” Superman BEFORE we’re forced to endure what can only be an even ANGRIER Superman?!?
The more I think about this, are they really trying to dig into the "Elseworlds" or multi-reality existence in DC? I'm wondering if this was the forced need to show SO much with so little explanation.
Posted on 4/4/16 at 9:18 am to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
Make one coherent movie. If the studio wanted to have this be a Batman v Superman movie, then it should have been that…and JUST that. We could have had the movie swing back and forth between Bruce’s world and Clark’s. Bruce digging into who Superman is, etc and Clark doing the same with Batman. We could have seen the relationship with Bruce and Alfred, and you could have explored what Superman’s been up to more fully in the past 18 months. In my version, the world would have gotten past his involvement and seen him for the hero he was and the good deeds he’d done for humanity since then…which is what would have made Bruce’s take so off kilter. When Alfred tell him, “He’s not our enemy” he’d have been speaking for nearly everyone…instead Bruce is simply one of MANY MANY people who hate Superman, which only serves to make Batman look reasonable in this world.
Yep. Call it World's Finest and JUST focus on Batman and Superman. That's a big enough topic and discussion for a 2.5 hour movie in itself. Oh what could have been.
Posted on 4/4/16 at 9:20 am to Freauxzen
quote:
All that and no star rating? Or at least a "I didn't think it was THAT bad!"
Give the people what they want!
3 out of 10?
This one's hard, because I actually DO feel the desire to say something nice about it...and there were a handful of things that I liked. The issue is those things REALLY hit home in places that make me love the characters, so they seem to carry extra weight. I think that's why you are getting some fans defend the movie so much...because those moments hit home for them too. For me though, they only served to make me MORE upset about when they seemed to purposefully screw with other parts. They could have made a better movie and chose not too in large part.
quote:
The more I think about this, are they really trying to dig into the "Elseworlds" or multi-reality existence in DC? I'm wondering if this was the forced need to show SO much with so little explanation.
Your guess is as good as mine, but the Flash scene screamed Injustice to me with the whole "You were right about him" and "Lois is the key." Plus you had Clark tell Lois several times that she's his whole world.
There are so many wonderful stories to tell, but most take a bit of time to get to. These two DC movies are so clearly reactionary to what Marvel has done that it's made them not work. In an attempt to NOT follow the path laid down by Marvel (slowly introduce main characters so that they can team up later) they've thrown everything into the same movie and made casual movie goers and critics throw their hands up because they don;t know wtf is going on. And comic fans are forced to sift threw all the Easter Eggs to try and piece together the story...
Posted on 4/4/16 at 9:28 am to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
This one's hard, because I actually DO feel the desire to say something nice about it...and there were a handful of things that I liked. The issue is those things REALLY hit home in places that make me love the characters, so they seem to carry extra weight. I think that's why you are getting some fans defend the movie so much...because those moments hit home for them too. For me though, they only served to make me MORE upset about when they seemed to purposefully screw with other parts. They could have made a better movie and chose not too in large part.
quote:
There are so many wonderful stories to tell, but most take a bit of time to get to. These two DC movies are so clearly reactionary to what Marvel has done that it's made them not work. In an attempt to NOT follow the path laid down by Marvel (slowly introduce main characters so that they can team up later) they've thrown everything into the same movie and made casual movie goers and critics throw their hands up because they don;t know wtf is going on. And comic fans are forced to sift threw all the Easter Eggs to try and piece together the story...
Well said on both accounts.
Posted on 4/4/16 at 9:35 am to GeauxTigerTM
Your thoughts about what should have been done are almost exactly lined up with mine. I really think this should have been more of a Batman movie. Allow us to see Snyder's take on the Bat. Cause everything he did with Batman was on point for the most part.
On Luthor, god his parts were so disjointed. Took me completely out of the movie. Thing is I liked the character as a whole with a different actor someone more physically intimidating would have been perfect in this role. Eisenberg's Riddler impression was spot on though.
Completely agree about Lois. She felt overused. She's literally a side piece and Snyder tried way too hard to make her an integral part of the story. It won't ever work and didn't work here.
Doomsday should have been used with the actual second Man of Steel movie. His being in this movie was just outright dumb.
Regardless whoever signed off on this story that was put before us should be fired and castrated. It was an abortion. A 5th grader could write a better story than that. Despite all of this, I enjoyed it simply because of Affleck's Batman. It literally (surprisingly along with Wonder Woman) is the only shine to this obvious turd that Snyder shite.
On Luthor, god his parts were so disjointed. Took me completely out of the movie. Thing is I liked the character as a whole with a different actor someone more physically intimidating would have been perfect in this role. Eisenberg's Riddler impression was spot on though.
Completely agree about Lois. She felt overused. She's literally a side piece and Snyder tried way too hard to make her an integral part of the story. It won't ever work and didn't work here.
Doomsday should have been used with the actual second Man of Steel movie. His being in this movie was just outright dumb.
Regardless whoever signed off on this story that was put before us should be fired and castrated. It was an abortion. A 5th grader could write a better story than that. Despite all of this, I enjoyed it simply because of Affleck's Batman. It literally (surprisingly along with Wonder Woman) is the only shine to this obvious turd that Snyder shite.
Posted on 4/4/16 at 9:56 am to ChargerDog91
quote:
Your thoughts about what should have been done are almost exactly lined up with mine. I really think this should have been more of a Batman movie. Allow us to see Snyder's take on the Bat. Cause everything he did with Batman was on point for the most part.
Honestly, given the very mixed reviews of MoS, I'd have preferred they do a straight up sequel to it and address some of the glaring weaknesses with it...but it's clear given the tone and continued take on Supes that Snyder and WB felt they nailed him the first time, so there was no need to address anything but the fact that people got upset by the wanton destruction of Metropolis.
But I didn't have a huge issue with bringing Bats in like this. Again, I'd have never brought in an older Batman, but a guy that was the same age as Superman but had been at it for a decade would have been fine. He'd have been established and fully Batman by the time Superman showed up.
You could have had them fight...but you'd need to have better reasons than what was portrayed. It made the World's Greatest Detective sound like an irrational idiot. While Superman certainly could take some blame for how things went down, only a god damned moron would lay the blame solely at his feet. Superman literally saved the planet from being terraformed by Zod. Yeah...it took a shite ton to stop him, but stopping him was better than NOT stopping him. No way Batman couldn't have seen that. It would have taken more...but you could get there.
Snyder simply tried to use the destruction from MoS as a reason to get to what he wanted...a fight between Batman and Superman with imagery from Dark Knight Returns (Iron Man suit, emaciated Superman in Space after nuclear explosion, etc)...but those things made sense in THAT story but did not in the one he tried to tell.
ETA: One thing I forgot that I think it a good example of style over substance here. In the first movie, they wet out of their way to rec con Superman's power NOT coming from Earth's yellow sun, right? That is NEVER said in that movie. In fact, they say something to the effect that it's the makeup up the atmosphere, etc that makes him more dense, stronger muscles, etc. And yet, here we have Superman floating in space after being hit with a nuclear warhead (shakes head) and he's all shrunken (again to use imagery from DKR) and he regains his size and power by basking in the YELLOW SUN!?!? But you said.....wait, frick it...
This post was edited on 4/4/16 at 10:01 am
Posted on 4/4/16 at 9:57 am to GeauxTigerTM
quote:Imagine how awesome it would be if JL part one centered arount the Atlantis conflict. Having Prince Orm and Black Manta as the main villains. You get to tell that awesome brother vs brother story and the struggle for the crown. You get to tell a story about the fear of the unknown what some will do to out of fear because they think they're doing it for the greater good. An Epic Aquaman vs Ocean Master battle. The stakes are huge and the motivations on both sides have the opportunity to actually mean something. You throw in the natural distrust with the Amazons vs Athenians. There's a recipe there for something special and it'll give the characters a chance to grow and develop.
These two DC movies are so clearly reactionary to what Marvel has done that it's made them not work. In an attempt to NOT follow the path laid down by Marvel (slowly introduce main characters so that they can team up later) they've thrown everything into the same movie and made casual movie goers and critics throw their hands up because they don;t know wtf is going on. And comic fans are forced to sift threw all the Easter Eggs to try and piece together the story...
But I fear that I'm wrong and 1)Casual fans will piss and moan about not getting Darkseid fast enough. And 2)DC and WB are going to want to blow their load too fast.
I will have my expectations in check this time around.
This post was edited on 4/4/16 at 9:59 am
Posted on 4/4/16 at 10:04 am to abellsujr
quote:
But I fear that I'm wrong and 1)Casual fans will piss and moan about not getting Darkseid fast enough.
Casual fans (those that simply like these comic book type movies) probably had no fricking idea what was going on in the Knightmare sequence with the Omega symbol, the parademons, etc) I think the fear is that DC doesn't want to look like they are setting up their big bad the exact same way Marvel has set up THEIR big bad, so they'll get to him much faster. Otherwise to the uninitiated it'll look like a slow journey towards Thanos all over again...but this tie with DC guys.
quote:
And 2)DC and WB are going to want to blow their load too fast.
We just got Dark Knight Returns AND Death of Superman jammed together...I'm thinking this ought to be a given at this point!
Posted on 4/4/16 at 10:06 am to GeauxTigerTM
My hope right now is that a solo batman film directed without Synder influence and the release of SS and WW movies will be enough to allow for JL tap the brakes until WB/DC can find a decent story teller.
Posted on 4/4/16 at 10:10 am to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
ETA: One thing I forgot that I think it a good example of style over substance here. In the first movie, they wet out of their way to rec con Superman's power NOT coming from Earth's yellow sun, right? That is NEVER said in that movie. In fact, they say something to the effect that it's the makeup up the atmosphere, etc that makes him more dense, stronger muscles, etc. And yet, here we have Superman floating in space after being hit with a nuclear warhead (shakes head) and he's all shrunken (again to use imagery from DKR) and he regains his size and power by basking in the YELLOW SUN!?!? But you said.....wait, frick it...
it's like some people never actually watch and listen to movies LINK
quote:
Earth's sun is younger and brighter than Krypton's was... Your cells have drunken its radiation, strengthening your muscles, your skin, your senses...
It literally says that exact thing in MoS.
Posted on 4/4/16 at 10:11 am to abellsujr
I'd say I'm a casual fan and that story doesn't really interest me at all.
Also, you've kind of boxed yourself with Superman's "death" I'm thinking any type of resurrection would involve Darkseid
Also, you've kind of boxed yourself with Superman's "death" I'm thinking any type of resurrection would involve Darkseid
Posted on 4/4/16 at 10:13 am to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
so there was no need to address anything but the fact that people got upset by the wanton destruction of Metropolis.
This is on of the reasons I hammered this point on the board post-MoS. I don't think it had anything to do with the level is destruction. It was the destruction played against the tone of the film, the tone of the character, and the actual visualization of it. That's the problem. None of it synced up, Snyder, nor WB got it (and for what it's worth, neither did many of the MoS fans), and this was the response.
This post was edited on 4/4/16 at 10:14 am
Posted on 4/4/16 at 10:13 am to schexyoung
quote:
My hope right now is that a solo batman film directed without Synder influence and the release of SS and WW movies will be enough to allow for JL tap the brakes until WB/DC can find a decent story teller.
Suicide Squad is already being reshot. Wonder Woman is heading to editing, hopefully Warner won't screw with that. Justice League will proceed as scheduled. Snyder has already said that he wants Affleck to direct the next Batman movie.
Posted on 4/4/16 at 10:14 am to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
One thing I forgot that I think it a good example of style over substance here. In the first movie, they wet out of their way to rec con Superman's power NOT coming from Earth's yellow sun, right? That is NEVER said in that movie. In fact, they say something to the effect that it's the makeup up the atmosphere, etc that makes him more dense, stronger muscles, etc. And yet, here we have Superman floating in space after being hit with a nuclear warhead (shakes head) and he's all shrunken (again to use imagery from DKR) and he regains his size and power by basking in the YELLOW SUN!?!? But you said.....wait, frick it...
YESSSSSSSSSS quote:
Honestly, given the very mixed reviews of MoS, I'd have preferred they do a straight up sequel to it and address some of the glaring weaknesses with it...but it's clear given the tone and continued take on Supes that Snyder and WB felt they nailed him the first time, so there was no need to address anything but the fact that people got upset by the wanton destruction of Metropolis.
But I didn't have a huge issue with bringing Bats in like this. Again, I'd have never brought in an older Batman, but a guy that was the same age as Superman but had been at it for a decade would have been fine. He'd have been established and fully Batman by the time Superman showed up.
I didn't think we needed a full on sequel yet, but I can see what you're getting at. I agree about Batman as well, but again I'm happy with what we got. It was the only redeeming thing about it to me in the end. He easily needed to flesh out more why Batman and him have issues. It's like he tried to go the Dark Knight Returns route, but was terrible in portraying that to the audience.
All in all, I feel like we can all agree that Zach Snyder was easily a terrible choice to head up this universe.
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