re: Obtuse Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice TD review thread (SPOILERS p5+)

haha.

It's called comic books. I read way to many of them.

P.S..... the New God sending Batman visions is probably Metron.

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This is what I gathered while watching the movie. But only because we know Darkseid is coming. Darkseid has been influencing and manipulating Luthor this whole time. The plan was for Superman to take out Batman. Why take out Batman? Because Batman is having visions. Or better put, someone (a New God) is sending Batman visions of Darkseid's coming. So Bats needs to be eliminated. Once Superman kills Bats, he returns to Lex just in time for the incubation stage of Doomsday to finish. There was a reason Lex gave Superman a time limit to kill Batman. Remember the timer.... Doomsday kills Superman. Since he is from Zod, Doomsday inheritantly wants to kill Supes. After Supes, Doomsday and/or Lex goes to kill the other meta humans, thus clearing superpowered resistance to Darkseid's coming. But all this was thrown out the window because Batman was more of a badass than Lex and Darkseid realized. And Wonder Woman showed up. Of course, I'm probably way off on this one!

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I love this.

But, they are truly giving Superman some bad characteristics here. They're suggesting that Superman will kill someone else to save Martha. Had they just had Superman go with the intention to speak with Batman, he gets sprayed with kryptonite, boom, he's fighting for his life.

But, if they do that, they ruin a future plot line of Superman turning bad in an alternate universe in order to set up Infinite Crisis. They have dug themselves an almost impossible hole.

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This is what I gathered while watching the movie. But only because we know Darkseid is coming.

Darkseid has been influencing and manipulating Luthor this whole time.

The plan was for Superman to take out Batman. Why take out Batman? Because Batman is having visions. Or better put, someone (a New God) is sending Batman visions of Darkseid's coming. So Bats needs to be eliminated.

Once Superman kills Bats, he returns to Lex just in time for the incubation stage of Doomsday to finish. There was a reason Lex gave Superman a time limit to kill Batman. Remember the timer....

Doomsday kills Superman. Since he is from Zod, Doomsday inheritantly wants to kill Supes.

After Supes, Doomsday and/or Lex goes to kill the other meta humans, thus clearing superpowered resistance to Darkseid's coming.

But all this was thrown out the window because Batman was more of a badass than Lex and Darkseid realized. And Wonder Woman showed up.

Of course, I'm probably way off on this one!

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See - Why couldn't this be the movie?

Only question I would have is why is Darkseid interested in Earth?

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Darkseid has been influencing and manipulating Luthor this whole time.

The plan was for Superman to take out Batman. Why take out Batman? Because Batman is having visions. Or better put, someone (a New God) is sending Batman visions of Darkseid's coming. So Bats needs to be eliminated.

Once Superman kills Bats, he returns to Lex just in time for the incubation stage of Doomsday to finish. There was a reason Lex gave Superman a time limit to kill Batman. Remember the timer....

Doomsday kills Superman. Since he is from Zod, Doomsday inheritantly wants to kill Supes.

After Supes, Doomsday and/or Lex goes to kill the other meta humans, thus clearing superpowered resistance to Darkseid's coming.

But all this was thrown out the window because Batman was more of a badass than Lex and Darkseid realized. And Wonder Woman showed up.

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this is a better movie that what I saw Sunday. much better. What I saw was the illegitimate lovechild of an acid trip and a cgi bukakke flick.

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I wasn't calling you out there, my friend. I genuinely am interested in how it was a high point for you. I'm guessing it is because you are a huge Aquaman fan and this is the first time you've seen him on film? Because the scene itself wasn't but about 30seconds.

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i was never a big fan back in the 80's or so, but the reinvention of him in the comics and in the injustice game has made him a more badass character - and I was pumped to see him in the film - albeit it for a small amount of time, but it was a high point for me to be sure.

pretty decent write up that I agree with

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Someone else said it perfectly. This movie tried to be The Dark Knight Returns, The Death of Superman, pre-Justice League, and elements of Injustice all rolled up into one two-hour movie. It was a story with no plot. Just a series of events and circumstances happening in quick succession. Couple it with shoddy editing choices and it was an incoherent mess.

- the Justice League teasers, the nightmare sequence, and the hints at things to come were not only pointless, but they completely disrupted the flow of whatever narrative they were trying to tell with this movie. What does Wonder Woman scrolling through surveillance footage of the other future Justice Leaguers have to do with what's going on? Yet they dwelled on it for five minutes. You could have written all of this material out (Wonder Woman included), and it would have had very little impact on the story. All it would amount to is a shorter runtime. This is exactly what Sony did with The Amazing Spider-Man 2 -instead of just focusing on telling the story at hand, it had to be all about setting up an extended universe. Did Warner Brothers not take note of what happened as a result of that? Sony had to get in bed with Marvel just to keep one of their most profitable franchises afloat. They drove it right into the ground. TA2 should have been a prime example of what NOT to do. Definition of insanity: doing the same thing and expecting a different result.

- Snyder's stance on Superman is very similar to Peter Jackson's stance on The Hobbit. They both claimed to be fans of these properties. But apparently, they can only work in the film medium if you fundamentally change what they are. With Jackson, that meant turning The Hobbit into an exhaustive nine-hour "epic" with various storylines that all but sidelined the titular character. For Snyder, that meant stripping Superman of his loving personality and unshakeable optimism and render him an aimless god still trying to figure out his place in a world. All he does is frown. All he does is react. All he does is stand there while others tell him what he should or shouldn't do. When he saves people, he comes across as doing so purely out of appointed obligation, not because he genuinely wants to. When he saves people, he does nothing to show them that he is not all that different from them. Snyder continues to put this character in thankless, winless situations. The one moment in the film when he is actually given a chance to defend himself, he stands there like a mute and then the building promptly explodes, while he stands there weeping. There's no sense of optimism with this character. Every time he saves someone, all this film does is point out how controversial it is. We aren't allowed one goddamn moment to celebrate Superman being Superman. This depiction of is just depressing. It simply does not work.

- Lex Luthor's big plan was needlessly convoluted and frankly devoid of logic, which is unusual for a character who is supposed to be one of the most intelligent characters in the DC canon. He hates Superman and wants him dead, or at least exposed as a fraud. Okay, fine. That's in keeping with Lex Luthor. He has his men shoot the soldiers in Africa, so that Superman would be blamed. By why would Superman shoot people? And why would you equip your men with prototype ammunition that is easily traceable back to you? He encourages McNairy to confront Superman in open court. He planted a bomb in McNairy's wheelchair, so assuming the blast killed everybody, one could assume Superman went ballistic and killed everyone. Okay, framing him. Makes sense. But the VERY next scene, McNairy is reported as the main suspect, not Superman. What the **** was the point then?

You have kryptonite, but instead of just taking care of business yourself, you orchestrate this convoluted plot where you have Batman and Superman fight. If Batman wins, congratulations, Superman is dead. If Superman wins, congratulations, you exposed him as a murderer and a fraud. But now you don't have any kryptonite. What's your next move?

Oh, I'm going to create an indestructible Kryptonian monster who will probably kill you, and then move on to kill everybody else. This is, of course, easily traceable back to me, so if Batman of Wonder Woman or whoever actually managed to succeed where Superman could not, I'm surely going to jail.

It's ****ing stupid. This should have played out not unlike the season finale of Sherlock Season Two. Luthor spends the entire film framing Superman for various tragedies (some he himself orchestrated), feeding public paranoia and undermining his reputation, and when his name is seemingly ruined, shoot him with kryptonite and leave his dying body before his very own monument in Hero's Park.

Instead, we get this needlessly complicated plot where Luthor is just plain nuts and doesn't give a **** what happens to himself. Not a very smart man.

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I thought that was Superboy Prime that turned bad? Well, he was a man by the time IC came about.

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They're either setting up Infinite Crisis or Injustice. Infinite Crisis seems more likely because Geoff Johns was a creator. They obviously can't do EVERYTHING from the concept, but they may be taking from it. I just think they went after too many things here. Too many stories trying to be told. They are going to have to make a lot of pieces fit here.

Agree................

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Darkknight

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That's good stuff, however....

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Darkseid has been influencing and manipulating Luthor this whole time.

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Before the last sequence and Luthor's rantings what evidence do we see that points to this?

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Because Batman is having visions. Or better put, someone (a New God) is sending Batman visions of Darkseid's coming.

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Was there anything in the vision that points to an origin? Or is it just because you have the comic knowledge?

I think Snyder trying to wrap in like 3 other stories was the problem, because this simple plot makes sense here.

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pretty decent write up that I agree with

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Just listened to this...been waiting to hear Kevin Smith's take on the movie.

Now...like him or not, Smith has PLENTY of reasons to give a rose colored review of this movie. He's known and been friends with Ben Affleck for years...he's tight with Geoff Johns at DC (remember they had him host that 30 minute special talking about the upcoming DC stuff back around the Super Bowl?), he just got finished directing an episode of The Flash for CW and the guy has about the largest man crush possible on Batman (he named his daughter Harley Quinn).

LINK

This SHOULD start at the review, but if it does not jump to the 1.04:35 part.

Again...I've yet to see it, but when you have a guy with this many reasons to say something nice about the movie (and the guy is always REALLY hesitant to say anything bad about anybody's project), and yet he ends up echoing the same shite everyone else says, at some point it might be time to step back and MAYBE realize that it just wasn't as good as it should have been...

These are the types of reviews that have had me disappointed in seeing this. I can tolerate plot holes are even pacing issues, but when a film maker seems to go out of their way to frick with what we know about the characters I tend to lose patience.