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re: Obtuse Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice TD review thread (SPOILERS p5+)
Posted on 3/28/16 at 11:44 am to Salamander_Wilson
Posted on 3/28/16 at 11:44 am to Salamander_Wilson
quote:
What is that clip from?
One of the scenes that will be in the 3:00 Ultimate Cut.
1
Posted on 3/28/16 at 11:46 am to abellsujr
Batman was sort of beloved in Gotham, so if Superman killed him than I could see that being the final straw
still....I don't believe you did enough for me to buy that you truly pushed Batman so far past the point that he'd still insist upon killing Superman even after learning what Lex had done. Superman tried for like a second to explain it and then said "ok frick it"
still....I don't believe you did enough for me to buy that you truly pushed Batman so far past the point that he'd still insist upon killing Superman even after learning what Lex had done. Superman tried for like a second to explain it and then said "ok frick it"
Posted on 3/28/16 at 11:47 am to Fewer Kilometers
Posted on 3/28/16 at 11:50 am to Fewer Kilometers
quote:It's a stretch. So Lex's motives were:
The difference would've been that Superman would've actually committed this murder.
1. Kill Batman.
2. Expose Superman as a murderer.
3. Kill Superman with Doomsday.
4. He already knew about the metahumans, so maybe he wanted to kill them also?
Then, what to do with Doomsday?
This post was edited on 3/28/16 at 11:50 am
Posted on 3/28/16 at 11:50 am to Salamander_Wilson
Great numbers, but it did open everywhere this weekend. I'm expecting a huge drop off this coming week.
Posted on 3/28/16 at 11:51 am to BilJ
quote:
still....I don't believe you did enough for me to buy that you truly pushed Batman so far past the point that he'd still insist upon killing Superman even after learning what Lex had done.
He didn't know what Lex had done until Lois got there. And it had been two years of misinformation that Lex had fed Bruce. The notes on the checks were just the final push before the attack on the Senate hearing.
Posted on 3/28/16 at 11:53 am to BilJ
quote:He was angry. That's the only explanation. After Batman did a couple of things to him that were a zero threat, he crashes him through a building. It was just kind of weird. Also, we know that Superman said "Sometimes you can't always do the right thing". Which means he was contemplating killing him instead of trying to reason with him. That whole setup was just a complete stretch.
"ok frick it"
Posted on 3/28/16 at 12:02 pm to Fewer Kilometers
quote:
He didn't know what Lex had done until Lois got there.
Superman barely tried to explain it. I just don't think enough was done to show that either side had come to the conclusion that a fight was ultimately the only option.
Posted on 3/28/16 at 12:10 pm to BlackAdam
quote:
Summary Miller's Batman killed one person who had a gun to a child's head, but refused to kill the Joker, refused to kill the Mutant Leader. Instructed the Sons of Batman not to kill. In All Star he stopped Robbin from killing the Joker and the Green Lantern.
Snyder's Batman killed, thirty plus, and rather indiscriminately.
Summary is you're a casual Batman fan. It's cool and all, but you asked for proof and were provided with such.
The older Batman doesn't mess around anymore.
Posted on 3/28/16 at 12:15 pm to abellsujr
quote:
Superman said "Sometimes you can't always do the right thing". Which means he was contemplating killing him instead of trying to reason with him.
I took it as him realizing that he was going to have to ask Batman for help (and Batman was someone that he considered more menace than hero). Not that he was going to have to kill him, but that he was going to have to make a deal with the devil to save his mother.
Posted on 3/28/16 at 12:15 pm to BilJ
quote:
Lex was moving chess pieces for no reason at all. I just think you would have been better served to have 2 heroes with different ideas of justice and have Lex be sort of on the sidelines coaxing along Batman to take him out without all of the outside bullshite.
'
Ding. Ding. Ding.
And I actually liked bits of Lex, but his plan was nonsensical.
Posted on 3/28/16 at 12:18 pm to Fewer Kilometers
quote:What deal? And how would that have been the wrong thing? Honestly, this sounds like a HUGE stretch.
I took it as him realizing that he was going to have to ask Batman for help (and Batman was someone that he considered more menace than hero). Not that he was going to have to kill him, but that he was going to have to make a deal with the devil to save his mother.
This post was edited on 3/28/16 at 12:19 pm
Posted on 3/28/16 at 12:20 pm to abellsujr
quote:
What deal? And how would that be a bad thing? Honestly, this sounds like a HUGE stretch.
It's not a stretch at all.
Luthor tells Superman he has to kill Batman to save his mother.
Superman tells Lois that he has to go to Gotham and ask Batman for his help.
Superman says, "No one stays good in this world."
He's referring to himself. He will have to ask Batman (who he has been against for the entire movie) for help. He sees that as making himself "less good."
Who else would he be referring to?
Posted on 3/28/16 at 12:22 pm to Fewer Kilometers
quote:Um, killing Batman to save his mom maybe? That was the entire conversation he had with Lex before that Lois scene. That's what didn't fit together.
Who else would he be referring to?
Posted on 3/28/16 at 12:25 pm to Fewer Kilometers
pretty sure he meant he'd kill Batman if he wouldn't listen, that was what the nobody stays perfect comment was referencing
Posted on 3/28/16 at 12:27 pm to BilJ
This is what he says "I have to go to Gotham to convince him to help me, or he has to die".
"No one stays good in this world"
"No one stays good in this world"
This post was edited on 3/28/16 at 12:29 pm
Posted on 3/28/16 at 12:33 pm to Freauxzen
I watched this last night and will throw my belated 2 cents into this thread.
That movie was a glorious mess. There were pieces that were ok, but there was a lot of cringe-worthy badness both in terms of pacing, plot and dialogue.
The more I reflect on what happened in the movie, the less happy I get about it. That being said, just seeing Batman, Supes and WW together at the end made me interested in seeing how they would develop a JLA. To me the three of them together was the best part of the movie (even if the circumstances getting them together were messed up).
Two of the items that really killed it for me where (mild spoilers):
1) The "martha" moment of revelation between Bats and Supes.
2) Batman being goaded (via the letters) into rage. While he may have his own rage, he himself is a master manipulator/strategist. I found the effect on the letters to him (as well as the Capitol incident) to be too out of character.
I'm advising my friends to wait for a torrent/netflix/dvd for this one.
Posted on 3/28/16 at 12:34 pm to AustinDawg
quote:And the more I see coming out, the more interested I am as well. There is some really cool mythology here. This movie was just so poorly done.
That being said, just seeing Batman, Supes and WW together at the end made me interested in seeing how they would develop a JLA.
This post was edited on 3/28/16 at 12:36 pm
Posted on 3/28/16 at 1:06 pm to abellsujr
quote:
Darkseid could clearly be pulling strings here.
This is what I gathered while watching the movie. But only because we know Darkseid is coming.
Darkseid has been influencing and manipulating Luthor this whole time.
The plan was for Superman to take out Batman. Why take out Batman? Because Batman is having visions. Or better put, someone (a New God) is sending Batman visions of Darkseid's coming. So Bats needs to be eliminated.
Once Superman kills Bats, he returns to Lex just in time for the incubation stage of Doomsday to finish. There was a reason Lex gave Superman a time limit to kill Batman. Remember the timer....
Doomsday kills Superman. Since he is from Zod, Doomsday inheritantly wants to kill Supes.
After Supes, Doomsday and/or Lex goes to kill the other meta humans, thus clearing superpowered resistance to Darkseid's coming.
But all this was thrown out the window because Batman was more of a badass than Lex and Darkseid realized. And Wonder Woman showed up.
Of course, I'm probably way off on this one!
Posted on 3/28/16 at 1:13 pm to Darkknight
quote:
This is what I gathered while watching the movie. But only because we know Darkseid is coming.
Darkseid has been influencing and manipulating Luthor this whole time.
The plan was for Superman to take out Batman. Why take out Batman? Because Batman is having visions. Or better put, someone (a New God) is sending Batman visions of Darkseid's coming. So Bats needs to be eliminated.
Once Superman kills Bats, he returns to Lex just in time for the incubation stage of Doomsday to finish. There was a reason Lex gave Superman a time limit to kill Batman. Remember the timer....
Doomsday kills Superman. Since he is from Zod, Doomsday inheritantly wants to kill Supes.
After Supes, Doomsday and/or Lex goes to kill the other meta humans, thus clearing superpowered resistance to Darkseid's coming.
But all this was thrown out the window because Batman was more of a badass than Lex and Darkseid realized. And Wonder Woman showed up.
Of course, I'm probably way off on this one!
Damn son.
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