re: LOST "The Candidate" S6 E14 (Jack/Locke-centric)

Have actually broken down the rules for why some people can't kill themselves or be killed by others? Here's my best stab:

1) you can't kill yourself if "the Island is not done with you" - this is true on and off of the Island...as evidenced by Michael not being able to shoot himself while in NY...maybe even why that car crashed keeping Jack from jumping off the bridge

2) you can't kill yourself if you've been given eternal life by Jacob. I'm not sure if eternal life is immediately conferred upon someone once they are touched by Jacob - I tend to believe that it would take something more...I think it may have to be expressly granted.

3) you can't be killed by MIB if you are a candidate - does this apply to everyone who has been a candidate at one point or just those who are currently candidates?

4) candidates can kill each other - but can they kill themselves? Idk

Anyone care to add anything?

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1) you can't kill yourself if "the Island is not done with you" - this is true on and off of the Island...as evidenced by Michael not being able to shoot himself while in NY...maybe even why that car crashed keeping Jack from jumping off the bridge

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I disagree with this completely. I don't think the island itself plays any role in the fate of the survivors of 815. I do believe that Jacob's designation of a person as a candidate puts the rules in play. All the talk between Jack and Locke about the island being the predictor of fate is the result of multiple manipulations by Jacob and MIB.

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2) you can't kill yourself if you've been given eternal life by Jacob. I'm not sure if eternal life is immediately conferred upon someone once they are touched by Jacob - I tend to believe that it would take something more...I think it may have to be expressly granted.

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I wouldn't say eternal life because we've certainly seen people touched by Jacob die. Rather, Jacob's designation of a candidate is akin to marking a certain, special piece on the board. It adds two rules to the game: this special piece cannot take itself off the board and MIB or Jacob cannot take this special piece of the board.

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3) you can't be killed by MIB if you are a candidate - does this apply to everyone who has been a candidate at one point or just those who are currently candidates?

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No, only those pieces marked as "candidates" benefit from the rules.

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4) candidates can kill each other - but can they kill themselves? Idk

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Candidates can absolutely kill each other. MIB's only chance of winning is convincing the candidates and other pieces to either convince or kill the pieces unwilling to cooperate.

Jacob's strategy for winning is the exact opposite - convince the pieces that these candidates are bound by "fate," such that they must be protected at all times. This ties back into your first point.

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As an earlier poster stated, I too am still not convinced the bomb was to be taken on the sub, but as a parting gift for Jack from MIB. It appears the MIB had no idea he was going to be pushed into the water and that would have left Jack, along with the bomb on the dock. Then if you roll back to MIB conversation with Jacob where he talks about killing him and the person who comes after him, then one could assume Jack would be the new Jacob and MIB would have killed him as well

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Except that MIB cannot kill Jack.

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I would think once he is on the sub - he could care less about the stupid rules as he is no longer on the island or bound to it.

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First, he can't get off the island without Jack going with him or being dead.

Second, based on the evidence that we've heard, this action doesn't make sense.

Either is still within the parameters of the island (regardless of whether he is on the sub) and the rules still apply.

Or he gets off the island and everyone dies. At which point, putting a bomb in Jack's backpack is really just rubbing it in.

Why not send them out there and let them get shot if he wants them to die anyway and he can't kill them.

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It appears the MIB had no idea he was going to be pushed into the water

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IDK. I'm beginning to think that things happened exactly how MIB planned. I'm even beginning to wonder that the "Widmore gunmen" at the dock were actually some of MIB's people. It seemed as if some were already there pre-positioned in trees before the Losties even went out to the dock. If they were Widmore's people, why wouldn't they begin firing as soon as Sawyer and others went out to the dock. I could see the gunmen as MIB's failsafe plan to get Jack to go inside the sub.

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He isn't going to be killing any candidates.

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Right. Notice that Kate was the only one that got popped. Claire and Locke shot at a lot too.

Well, please don't tell us. And if you do, make sure you put spoilers and people have to scroll down for like 10 seconds before reading.

Look on pg 2 of the stickied LOST thread. OMLandshark has a link to it up there.

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...I'm beginning to think that things happened exactly how MIB planned....

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we should just go with this minus the fact that he wanted everyone on the sub to die.

also remember he he takes the watch off the guy he kills before he "finds" the C4 on the plane. i think the C4 was just a ploy to get the group to trust him to get them on the sub. (that's probably been mentioned but i haven't read a few pages because it seems people were squabbling about the rules).

also someone mentioned something about jacob giving someone eternal life which i think was then interpreted as by anyone he touched.

richard as far as we know has eternal life but none of the candidates do. richard is the only one i think the original poster on this topic (you can't die if jacob gives you eternal life) was referring to.