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re: 'Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power' Ep 1 Negativity Thread. Enter at your own risk
Posted on 8/24/22 at 6:10 am to JohnnyBgood
Posted on 8/24/22 at 6:10 am to JohnnyBgood
I will laugh if the nerdrotic guy on YouTube ends up liking it. His whole YouTube channel is him bashing on the trailers.
2
Posted on 8/24/22 at 6:13 am to RLDSC FAN
I know it has been pointed out a million times in these threads, but I'm still shocked that the writers don't understand that they are nerfing Galadriel by giving her a sword and making her that type of fighter.
One of the most powerful people in the story as written is a women, and they weaken her.
I read a few articles of people trying to justify this with over-reading some of Tolkien's writing, but it's pretty clear he never really put a sword in her hand. She was more powerful than to need a sword.
One of the most powerful people in the story as written is a women, and they weaken her.
I read a few articles of people trying to justify this with over-reading some of Tolkien's writing, but it's pretty clear he never really put a sword in her hand. She was more powerful than to need a sword.
Posted on 8/24/22 at 6:14 am to Civildawg
quote:
I will laugh if the nerdrotic guy on YouTube ends up liking it. His whole YouTube channel is him bashing on the trailers
Those animals have already left the barn. Gary's seen (or knows the story ) of the first several episodes.
He's not going to change his tune. It may even be worse than we imagine.
Posted on 8/24/22 at 6:34 am to SouthEasternKaiju
quote:
Having read enough Tolkien (The Hobbit, LOTR trilogy, Silmarillion, and more) several times over, I'm quite certain that Galadriel never put on a suit of armor and went on orc hunting raids or commanded great armies of the North.
?
There are no black dwarves, elves or Hobbits. None. Period.
That's all I need to know that this isn't Tolkien's work, or anywhere close to respecting his lore.
Right. So, you are approaching this series from the wrong perspective. Did you really think that Hollywood could make this series with an all-white cast? Talk about living in a fantasy world!
One of Tolkien's many goals in his writing was to create a substitute English mythology, because aside from the Arthurian legends, there wasn't a real mythology of the British isles.
That's why all the characters were white, and all why the descendants of Numenor, with their elvish blood, are superior. In LOTR, for example, the dunedain are taller, wiser, and longer-lived than other humans (including the people of Rohan, who are mostly blond).
So, Tolkien wasn't arguing so much for white superiority so much as an English superiority, as some of his early work had a nationalistic bent. But that's a distinction lost on many critics, many of whom have argued that Tolkien's writings are fundamentally racist.
Honestly, I am so grateful that Tolkien hasn't been cancelled. His work has so much to say to us in our modern times, and now a new generation will pick up the books and benefit from them. If he were alive today, I do not believe that he would be quite understanding of a multi-racial cast for this show. In a way, it's even better, as now the themes in his work now speak to a broader audience.
As for Galadriel, she certainly fights. She is part of the white council that battles with the Necromancer (who turns out to be Sauron) and forces him to leave Dol Guldur.
And please remember the valor of Eowyn. Tolkien has no formal objection to a woman fighting with a sword.
This post was edited on 8/24/22 at 6:43 am
Posted on 8/24/22 at 6:41 am to TideWarrior
quote:
I will bet no matter the loss there will be a 2nd season.
There will be five seasons. One of the good things about this show is that it's all already been plotted out. It's not going to end awkwardly.
FWIW, I expect the show to end with the great battle upon the plain of Dagorlad, with Isildur slicing the Ring from Sauron's finger.
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Posted on 8/24/22 at 6:47 am to Civildawg
quote:
I will laugh if the nerdrotic guy on YouTube ends up liking it. His whole YouTube channel is him bashing on the trailers.
This will never happen as he’s making way more money hating on it than he ever could enjoying it.
Posted on 8/24/22 at 6:54 am to GOP_Tiger
quote:
Right. So, you are approaching this series from the wrong perspective. Did you really think that Hollywood could make this series with an all-white cast? Talk about living in a fantasy world! One of Tolkien's many goals in his writing was to create a substitute English mythology, because aside from the Arthurian legends, there wasn't a real mythology of the British isles. That's why all the characters were white, and all why the descendants of Numenor, with their elvish blood, are superior. In LOTR, for example, the dunedain are taller, wiser, and longer-lived than other humans (including the people of Rohan, who are mostly blond). So, Tolkien wasn't arguing so much for white superiority so much as an English superiority, as some of his early work had a nationalistic bent. But that's a distinction lost on many readers. Honestly, I am so grateful that Tolkien hasn't been cancelled. His work has so much to say to us in our modern times, and now a new generation will pick up the books and benefit from them. If he were alive today, I do not believe that he would be quite understanding of a multi-racial cast for this show. In a way, it's even better, as now the themes in his work now speak to a broader audience. As for Galadriel, she certainly fights. She is part of the white council that battles with the Necromancer (who turns out to be Sauron) and forces him to leave Dol Guldur. And please remember the valor of Eowyn. Tolkien has no formal objection to a woman fighting with a sword.
That sure is a lot of words defending a crap show.
His books were already translated into 30 languages before, so his lore doesn’t need this series to continue his legacy.
If they wanted to show us Tolkien , then they should’ve done Tolkien . Not some modern version of what they think his story needed to improve on & update.
ROTK came out in the 1950s. Eowyn had a clever and amazing story arc. And yet these writers & actors today think they are more clever than Tolkien himself?
This is why it will fail
This post was edited on 8/24/22 at 6:58 am
Posted on 8/24/22 at 7:27 am to SouthEasternKaiju
You’re high off your arse if you think this show is going to fail.
Posted on 8/24/22 at 7:44 am to sorantable
It already has failed.
Posted on 8/24/22 at 7:54 am to SouthEasternKaiju
YouTube turned off the downvotes it was getting hammered so bad. The comments are incredible 
Posted on 8/24/22 at 7:58 am to BOSCEAUX
I know there are extensions that allow you to see the downvotes. Is there any site which one can go to & see updates up/down results?
Posted on 8/24/22 at 8:03 am to sorantable
quote:
You’re high off your arse if you think this show is going to fail.
Have you seen the upvote to downvote ratios in these videos? This show pretty much certainly is going to fail.
This post was edited on 8/24/22 at 8:07 am
Posted on 8/24/22 at 8:11 am to SouthEasternKaiju
quote:
They don't want to be troubled with thinking too much. Just consume content, and then get excited for new content.
As a huge fan of the books and PJ's trilogy, I don't really consider either medium to be something that requires that much thought to grasp compared to other stories, but that is why they are so beloved. Dune doesn't have near the fanfare LoTR has and IMO is a slightly more interesting world/universe, but it gets so bogged down by extracurricular stuff that some people can't get invested (at least in the books. The latest movie did a great job of keeping it digestible IMO). LoTR keeps it simple but interesting.
Posted on 8/24/22 at 8:12 am to SouthEasternKaiju
We also had a 13 page thread of people crying and swearing off House of The Dragon because they screeched it had gotten too woke because of one interview from the cast mentioning it will create a conversation around patriarchy and misogyny....and despite the "GOT is dead, woke go broke declarations", it was the largest premiere in HBO history.
Personally, I think the LOTR show looks a step below the new GoT in terms of quality(budget aside), but when a show about a bisexual girl and a bisexual trans girl is one of the most popular dramas on TV, and in HBO history, I do not think the culture war screeching on here reflects the reality of what broader audiences will accept in terms of diversity. IF the show, against my expectations, is actually really good on it's own merits, it will find an audience. If it's quality is trash, haters will declare victory and normal people will just not watch. It's not really the flashpoint some of you all want to make it out to be.
Personally, I think the LOTR show looks a step below the new GoT in terms of quality(budget aside), but when a show about a bisexual girl and a bisexual trans girl is one of the most popular dramas on TV, and in HBO history, I do not think the culture war screeching on here reflects the reality of what broader audiences will accept in terms of diversity. IF the show, against my expectations, is actually really good on it's own merits, it will find an audience. If it's quality is trash, haters will declare victory and normal people will just not watch. It's not really the flashpoint some of you all want to make it out to be.
Posted on 8/24/22 at 8:13 am to GOP_Tiger
quote:
As for Galadriel, she certainly fights. She is part of the white council that battles with the Necromancer (who turns out to be Sauron) and forces him to leave Dol Guldur.
Jackson depicted this in the final Hobbit movie and she dispatches the Necromancer without a weapon, without armor, without shoes.
LINK
That being said, based on the trailers, I still have no idea what this show is about.
Posted on 8/24/22 at 8:22 am to Bronc
quote:
We also had a 13 page thread of people crying and swearing off House of The Dragon because they screeched it had gotten too woke because of one interview from the cast mentioning it will create a conversation around patriarchy and misogyny....and despite the "GOT is dead, woke go broke declarations", it was the largest premiere in HBO history.
Personally, I think the LOTR show looks a step below the new GoT in terms of quality(budget aside), but when a show about a bisexual girl and a bisexual trans girl is one of the most popular dramas on TV, and in HBO history, I do not think the culture war screeching on here reflects the reality of what broader audiences will accept in terms of diversity. IF the show, against my expectations, is actually really good on it's own merits, it will find an audience. If it's quality is trash, haters will declare victory and normal people will just not watch. It's not really the flashpoint some of you all want to make it out to be.
People want the "other side" to "lose" so badly that they will root for a show to fail even though its based on an intellectual property they claim they love.
And yeah, bUt mUh tRaIlErS. Yeah, I think they have been mostly bad as well. But based on comments after early screenings of the first two episodes at least some people think there is a good story there and that one LOTR nerd guy even said his concerns based on the trailers turned out to be nothing. Worst case, I watch an episode or two and don't like it, and I turn it off and it doesn't impact my life at all afterwards
Posted on 8/24/22 at 8:31 am to Bronc
quote:
We also had a 13 page thread of people crying and swearing off House of The Dragon because they screeched it had gotten too woke because of one interview from the cast mentioning it will create a conversation around patriarchy and misogyny....and despite the "GOT is dead, woke go broke declarations", it was the largest premiere in HBO history.
No, with House of Dragon it’s more people being very dissatisfied with the ending of the previous show more than anything else. Save for a bit of the casting, that on its surface doesn’t look inherently Woke like this does. Like it’s possible that someone in House Velaryon married a Summer Islander and had interracial kids keeping some Valyrian traits. It’s not likely, but possible.
Posted on 8/24/22 at 8:34 am to Bronc
GoT show is different because GRR Martin is still here & can approve such changes (in exchange for cash) so it’s on him.
His work, his choice.
That’s not the case with Tolkien.
His work, his choice.
That’s not the case with Tolkien.
Posted on 8/24/22 at 8:48 am to TrussvilleTide
quote:
People want the "other side" to "lose" so badly that they will root for a show to fail even though its based on an intellectual property they claim they love.
It's not about losing. It's about the need to push an agenda that lacks the conviction to try it on its own so it uses someone else's work to do it for them.
Hollywood has made movies about Mary Sue badass numerous times, but even since the new Star Wars movies, it's becoming a cliched tendency that's starting to get laughed at. Now they're adapting what I assume to be The Silmarillion - which involves a huge host of characters, stories and struggles - and appear to be condensing it down to Mary Sue Galadriel versus Sauron. The bulk of Galadriel's part in the fight against Sauron is late in the game and more of a chess match of intelligence than the She-Ra routine the trailers strongly suggest. Hobbits are barely mentioned in the Silmarillion yet they're all over the promotions...this time, multi-ethnic, of course.
The social engineering is just tiresome. No one expected the imaginary world of Wakanda to be "diverse" and that's ok. No one expects the Chinese fantasy world of Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon to be filled with Indians and Inuits and that's ok. Tolkein based his writing largely on northern European mythology and folk tales and those were not filled with sword wielding female badasses and diverse casts. I would have more respect if Amazon crafted a well-written, epic fantasy series of their own with a story that reflected those values they're shoving into Tolkein, but they won't do that because they know they can't sell it. They need Tolkein, then they want to erase every other paragraph and insert their own.
We live in a geek pop culture. Much like Marvel, anything with a hobbit is going to make money. I don't doubt that. But I'm encouraged by the criticism, because good stories should be celebrated for what they are, not reduced to a cultural Madlibs.
Posted on 8/24/22 at 8:53 am to GOP_Tiger
quote:
One of Tolkien's many goals in his writing was to create a substitute English mythology, because aside from the Arthurian legends, there wasn't a real mythology of the British isles.
This is spot on and cannot be emphasized enough...
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